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Israeli ground troops enter Gaza

JMak said:
Sorry, but there's no reasonable rational for Gazans to be launching rockets at Israeli schools, churches, or day care centers let alone firing them indiscriminately to cause as much civilian death and terror as possible.
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First off it is terrorists who launch the rockets. By saying "gazans" you imply the whole 1.5 million people there are terrorists, babies, women and small children included.

Secondly, the terrorists dont target schools, churches?!?!?! or other places. They CANT! The rockets are not sophisticated enough and have zero targeting ability. All the terrorists can do is point and fire and "hope" to hit something. Most rockets actually hit bare ground outside towns.

Israeli is a sovereign nation. The Gazans could start acting like a civilized people and govern themselves rather than being terrorists.
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I agree fully. But one of the main problems is that they cant because Israel controls all vital aspects of Palestinian life.. like freedom of movement! How can you act like civilized people, when someone else control's where you can go, who you can see, where you can work and even who you can marry.....

I wonder why we don't see this same activity in the West Bank? I mean, we see the markets open, improving standards of living, etc. Meanwhile, the Gazans launch rockets at kids.
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Very simple answer there. One, Israel controls the border to Jordan and that prevents any weapons being smuggled into the West Bank. Israel does not 100% control the border between Egypt and Gaza. They only control in part the official border crossings, and cant intercept what comes through the tunnels.

As for you hyperhole about improving living standards.. give me a break. Israel controls freedom of movement in the whole west bank..Israel controls who can get to work, who can marry, who can go and get medical treatment and so on.. all because of the check points. Saying that the Palestinians on the west bank have it "better" than those on Gaza is talking margins. Only difference is that Israel totally controls the West Bank, where as in Gaza they could/can only control what goes into Gaza not what happens in Gaza.

And why you make such a wager?
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You do know there are other factions other than Hamas right?

Even if that were the case...Hamas is a popularly elected government, no?
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Yes, the Palestinian people elected them because they were tired of the corrupt Fata faction. Happens in a FREE democratic election, that the US supported.. sucks that the result was not what you wanted. In fact it just happened in the US.. the corrupt Republican party was dealt a huge hit in the last election right.........

Do they not have a responsibility to control their borders?That they do not, and willfully do not at that, they have them demonstrated that they are supportive of such rocket attacks. I'm sure they don't mind given that such attacks fit their agenda very nicely.
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No, Israel has the last say. No one can enter Gaza from air, sea, land without the approval of Israel. We are talking about the official border crossings. So the Palestinians do not control the border in any way.

Hmmm, a ceasefire is signed. Gazans continue lobbing rockets into Israel. Hamas does nothing. Rockets continue being fired.
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Israel keep preventing freedom of movement to Gaza, keeps assassinating people in Gaza, keeps the West Bank under tight control, keeps building new and expanding old settlements in the West Bank, keeps Palestinians from running their own areas, but denying freedom of movement, and so on.

Yeah, I see Israel, you know, not sticking to a ceasefire agreement. :roll:
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Israel never sticks to any deal, just like the Palestinians. Israel keeps expanding settlements, despite knowing that it is one of the main issues in the conflict. That's just one example. There is always an excuse by both sides to "break" any deal, because both sides don't have full control over what their populations do. Hamas does not control what other factions do, and Israel does not control what the settlers do. Same thing.

Why do you sympathize with the terrorists?
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Ahh now we have reached that low..... Iraq war deja vu. Where do I say I sympathize with terrorists? Terrorists are scum of the earth and it dont matter what race, religion or country they represent.

Do you believe that Israel should not exist?
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I believe the establishment of the State of Israel over the head of the natives in the area was wrong from a moral, humanitarian and legal view, but since it is here now, then it aint going away. Israel is a nation in the region and that is something everyone has to accept. What we do not have to accept is the actions of said nation.

Well, Gazans have chosen who they are uniting with...Hamas. Hamas was elected to govern. Instead, it not only engages in lobbing rockets int Israel but tolerates it within their jurisdiction.
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Because as I have stated time and time again, Israel continues with its acts of aggression against the Palestinian people in the West Bank.

Are the Gazans not burrowing tunnels beneath the border to carry out terror attacks?
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Burrowing into Israel? Most likely

Burrowing into Egypt? No, not at all. Is there weapons smuggled? Sure, but most of the material coming in is food, medicine and materials, because Israel has been blockading the Gaza Strip for a long time.

Are the Gazans not launching rockets into Israel on a near daily basis?
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Terrorists are.

Let me ask you this...are the IDF and Israeli government blockading Gaza and preventing freedom of movement to Gaza on a daily basis.. even BEFORE the rockets, and during the cease fire? Are the Israeli, preventing the democratic elected Palestinian parliament from meeting because it has put many of its members in jail... funny they can do that in another country since you believe the West Bank is under Palestinian control or something..... Are the Israelis expanding and building new settlements in the West Bank? Are they forcing out Palestinians from Jerusalem. Are the Israeli's giving total freedom of movement in the west bank to Palestinians? .. No

We can keep going on if you want, but the fact is that Israel has as much blame on the situation as the terrorists. The terrorists are wrong in using rockets and suicide bombers, but Israel is just as wrong by the stuff it has done and is doing in the occupied areas for 40 years... in fact they are fuelling the terror against them which is ironic, and sad since they seem to not to be able to see that. When people like you claim that Israel are defending themselves.. well you can easily claim exactly the same about the Palestinians.. they are fighting an occupying force and defending their families...

This will go on and on, because of the pigheaded attitudes of both sides.. period.
 
donsutherland1 said:
I agree. I very much hope that civilian casualties will be minimized. I remain concerned about Hamas' human shielding on account of placing its facilities, weapons, and personnel in the midst of civilians. It would not surprise me if Hamas tries to precipitate combat in civilian areas with the hope of creating large numbers of civilian casualties. Of course, Hamas would bear complete responsibility for civilian casualties that result from its human shielding.
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This is the most tellign post in the whole thread. Why? Because none of the people railing against bhkad and others that were pro-Israel wanted to touch it. NONE of them responded to it because god forbid they have to debate someone intelligent, well informed, and well spoken of their arguments. They'd prefer to blather on with people they think of as easy pray and can stick to emotional diatribes with other than actually address someone with substance. Sad, but not surprising.

EgoffTib said:
The civilians did not attack Israel. :doh
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Please, name me any modern war (conducted after the point where two sides met on some random hill and ran at each other with swords or bayonets) that did not cause civilians to be killed. Guess what, if YOUR COUNTRY (espicially in a "democratically elected one" like so many in this thread keep pointing out) attacks ANOTHER country then its likely going to cause some of your civilians to die when they counter attack. This is doubly so when YOUR COUNTRY is using civilian areas to hide. Part of being in a democracy is accepting the responsability of what your government and its people does.

Laila said:
I don't want Hamas in power but i think they should be removed using democracy - the same way they entered.
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Riiight. Please, name me another non-3rd world state that if another state, democracy or not, launched missile after missile at it for a month would deem it appropriate action to JUST democratically deter the country doing it. You wouldn't.

Turn it around, lets say...hell, CANADA had the military power to defeat the United States and Republicans decided we needed to bomb canada and proceeded to do it for weeks on end. Would you honestly be sitting here saying that Canada should just deal with it and do nothing but seek a "democratic" means of solving the problem and that they shouldn't excersie their right to defend themselves?

This is nothing more than stereotypical Israeli hate by you. Surprise surprise. You try to remain "neutral" and condemn both sides, but you do it in words alone and not action in regard to Hamas and Palestine. The only time you speak critically of them is when you say something along the lines of "both". Beyond that, its non-stop attacking of Israel.

Laila said:
Unless BBC and the Guardian is now Arab propaganda, people were in the Mosque praying evening prayers.
Remember, Muslims have to pray 5 times. One of them is late in the evening.

Six children among 12 killed in mosque blast | World news | The Observer

Scenes of carnage as Israeli shells strike crowd of civilians who were leaving evening prayers
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Wow. What a thought. Muslims pray 5 times, going lllllllate into the night and eeeeeeearly in the morning as potential times. So why not hide military objects in these places so that we can be sure that no matter when its hit there's almost a certainty of civilians being killed. Then, when it happens, it won't be our fault for planning this out and putting stuff there for that specific reason but we'll get the israel haters going "See! See! ISRAEL is killing civilians! its their fault!"

Ammro said:
Yes. US and Britain are behind most sufferings, miseries, and poverty in our planet. Look for their past and current practices.

Who hunted and shipped Africans and made them slaves in America. Who used the first Atomic bomb on earth? Who invaded Vietnam? ..etc.

British is the country of the most black history. They ruled Africa, India, many Middle East countries by force and killed the people who defended them.

Who created the rotten racial segregation in South African and treated black people as dogs. Please read the western history. Why not do we have to think that history is repeating itself through allegation of democracy, freedom, and terrorism fight.

This is history of the west culture and you can not deny it. The current scene is a reflection of that history.
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Oh give me a break. Africans engaged in the slave trade with their own people before the U.S. was even created. The arab slave trade continued on for even longer years. Attrocities by arabs, africans, and asians are far from non-existant. Every country of almost any note has had its share of black marks. Not surprisingly, many of these countries that have the most black marks have also been the ones that have done the most for civilization as well.

Your apparent ignorance or purpuseful blindness towards the realistic way in which the world works, and the fact that "The West" is not simply some great devil while the rest of the world is a utopia is disgustingly sad.
 
WI Crippler said:
IMO, Hamas is the cancer that is keeping Palestinian civilians and Israel from reaching a peaceful solution. Their removal is the only thing that can ever bring about a resolution to this problem. Some Palestinians are going to have to die in this, due to the tactics of Hamas using them and their structures as shields.
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When there is a cancer, you have to "fight" it. You can't reason with cancer, you can't wish it away. Cancer doesn't play by the rules, so neither can you. And you can't listen to what anybody else tells you. You have to be willing to give up everything, because the cancer will take everything. When you have cancer you fight, because it doesn't matter if you beat it or not. You refuse to let that fat little lump make you feel powerless!

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Zyphlin said:
When there is a cancer, you have to "fight" it. You can't reason with cancer, you can't wish it away. Cancer doesn't play by the rules, so neither can you. And you can't listen to what anybody else tells you. You have to be willing to give up everything, because the cancer will take everything. When you have cancer you fight, because it doesn't matter if you beat it or not. You refuse to let that fat little lump make you feel powerless!

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- if you smoke 50 cigarettes a day, don't be astonished if you get a cancer. Israel has helped the Hamas to get the power in Gaza (according to Israeli historian Zeev Sternell) and then makes it gain support by maintaining a blockade around Gaza, annexing land with the security fence and paying people to go live in illegal colonies in West bank

- you don't fight a cancer with analgesics or placebos. Israel has already tried to remove the Hamas by invading Gaza, and it has not worked. It has also invaded Lebanon to get rid of Hezbollah, and it hasn't worked neither.

- you can't win against a cancer if you don't stop smoking. The Palestinians (also the Hamas) ask for the two-state solution with the 1967 borders (and not the total destruction of Israel, as Ephraim Halevy, former boss of the Mossad says) and proposed a ceasefire (contrary to what certain posters say, most of the Palestinians do not want the destruction of Israel, 76% of them want the two state solution), which has been refused by Israel. If Israel wanted to stop the violence, it should destroy all its illegal colonies, where half a million of settlers live, and the right wing ones do not seem ready to accept that.
 
Goobieman said:
You didnt answer the question.

Do you or do you not believe that Israel should not exist?
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If you had read the post you'd not ask that
 
bub said:
If you had read the post you'd not ask that
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I did read the post.
YOU didn't write it, so it doesn't tell me a thing about what YOU think.

So, stop avoding the question.
Do you or do you not believe that Israel should not exist?
 
Goobieman said:
I did read the post.
YOU didn't write it, so it doesn't tell me a thing about what YOU think.

So, stop avoding the question.
Do you or do you not believe that Israel should not exist?
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CaptainCourtesy said:
I will not sit by and watch people like bub and Laila get attacked for disagreeing when all of the accusations that some of you are throwing at them ARE COMPLETELY INACCURATE.
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now that you've read this as a warning, further accusations will be reported
 
bub said:
your link is broken
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Not One Thin Dime for Abbas by Andrew C. McCarthy on National Review Online

Also from that piece...

FATAH’S “MODERATE” CON JOB

The Aqsa Brigades are not just any group of terrorists. They are the most ruthless, accomplished terror wing of Fatah, the organization bequeathed to us by the late Yasser Arafat. The Bush administration delusionally regards Fatah and its leader, Mahmoud Abbas (also known as “Abu Mazen”), as the “moderate” Palestinian faction. There is nothing moderate about them. Yet, the administration appears determined to play this foolish game to its inevitable end because, like its starry-eyed predecessor, it is entranced by the holy grail of Israeli/Palestinian peace.

Peace, of course, would require two sides desirous of coexistence. We’re one short. Palestinians do not seek to coexist with Israel. They seek to destroy Israel. But that may have to await their annihilation of each other, with Fatah and its fellow thug, Hamas, now locked in a struggle for control.

Hamas is proudly unyielding in its announced intention to vaporize the “Zionist entity.” By contrast, Fatah is cagier but no less determined.
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bub said:
now that you've read this as a warning, further accusations will be reported
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I havent accused you of anything, and so you have nothing to report.

I did, however, ask you a question -- a perfectly legitimate question, and one you have, thus far, refused to answer.

So, stop avoding the question.
Do you or do you not believe that Israel should not exist?
 
Zyphlin said:
When there is a cancer, you have to "fight" it. You can't reason with cancer, you can't wish it away. Cancer doesn't play by the rules, so neither can you. And you can't listen to what anybody else tells you. You have to be willing to give up everything, because the cancer will take everything. When you have cancer you fight, because it doesn't matter if you beat it or not. You refuse to let that fat little lump make you feel powerless!

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By the way this says the same thing:

There is one decisive advantage to the “evildoer” metaphor, and it is this: Combat with evildoers is not Clausewitzian war. You do not make treaties with evildoers or try to adjust your conduct to make them like you. You do not try to see the world from the evildoers’ point of view. You do not try to appease them, or persuade them, or reason with them. You try, on the contrary, to outwit them, to vanquish them, to kill them. You behave with them in the same manner that you would deal with a fatal epidemic — you try to wipe it out.

So perhaps it is time to retire the war metaphor and to deploy one that is more fitting: the struggle to eradicate disease. The fantasy ideologies of the twentieth century, after all, spread like a virus in susceptible populations: Their propagation was not that suggested by John Stuart Mill’s marketplace of ideas — fantasy ideologies were not debated and examined, weighed and measured, evaluated and compared. They grew and spread like a cancer in the body politic. For the people who accepted them did not accept them as tentative or provisional. They were unalterable and absolute. And finally, after driving out all other competing ideas and ideologies, they literally turned their host organism into the instrument of their own poisonous and deadly will.

The same thing is happening today — and that is our true enemy. The poison of the radical Islamic fantasy ideology is being spread all over the Muslim world through schools and through the media, through mosques and through the demagoguery of the Arab street. In fact, there is no better way to grasp the full horror of the poison than to listen as a Palestinian mother offers her four-year-old son up to be yet another victim of this ghastly fantasy.

Once we understand this, many of our current perplexities will find themselves resolved. Pseudo-issues such as debates over the legitimacy of “racial profiling” would disappear: Does anyone in his right mind object to screening someone entering his country for signs of plague? Or quarantining those who have contracted it? Or closely monitoring precisely those populations within his country that are most at risk?

Let there be no doubt about it. The fantasy ideologies of the twentieth century were plagues, killing millions and millions of innocent men, women, and children. The only difference was that the victims and targets of such fantasy ideologies so frequently refused to see them for what they were, interpreting them as something quite different — as normal politics, as reasonable aspirations, as merely variations on the well-known theme of realpolitik, behaving — tragically enough — no differently from Montezuma when he attempted to decipher the inexplicable enigma posed by the appearance of the Spanish conquistadors. Nor did the fact that his response was entirely human make his fate any less terrible.

Hoover Institution - Policy Review - Al Qaeda's Fantasy Ideology
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Goobieman said:
I havent accused you of anything, and so you have nothing to report.

I did, however, ask you a question -- a perfectly legitimate question, and one you have, thus far, refused to answer.

So, stop avoding the question.
Do you or do you not believe that Israel should not exist?
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From what I have read, Bub's disagreement concerns the effectiveness of the tactics being used to combat Hamas. He does not reject Israel's right to exist.

If I am mistaken, he can correct me. But that's how I understood the full range of the messages he posted on the matter.
 
donsutherland1 said:
From what I have read, Bub's disagreement concerns the effectiveness of the tactics being used to combat Hamas. He does not reject Israel's right to exist.

If I am mistaken, he can correct me. But that's how I understood the full range of the messages he posted on the matter.
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No offense, but I'd like to -hear- his response to the question.

After all, unless he actually makes a statement to a given effect, any conclusion otherwise derived is mere inference.
 
PeteEU said:
First off it is terrorists who launch the rockets. By saying "gazans" you imply the whole 1.5 million people there are terrorists, babies, women and small children included.
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That was not the intention. Of course, those actually launching these rockets, as well as committing other terror atrocities are terrorists. I did not mean to imply that all Gazans were terrorists. However, it's clear to me that Gazans made a clear and conscious decision to have a terror group govern them and openly cheer when attacks are successfully launched against Israel from their territory. Ordinary Gazans ain't demonstrating against their government for its terror activities, it ain't rebelling against the terrorists who use ambulances and other public service vehicle to transport terrorists, and it openly supports such activities. Hence, I use "gazans" since they either are comitting the terror attacks or are supportive of that terrorism.

Problem with that?

Secondly, the terrorists dont target schools, churches?!?!?! or other places. They CANT! The rockets are not sophisticated enough and have zero targeting ability. All the terrorists can do is point and fire and "hope" to hit something. Most rockets actually hit bare ground outside towns.
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I see, so it's even worse. They don't care where the rockets land. They fire them indiscriminately with the intention of killing civilians.

But it's the Israeli's who are condemned for using sophisticated weaponry despite the fact that the use of such weaponry clearly is intended to avoid or limit civilian casualties.

This is sickening.

I agree fully. But one of the main problems is that they cant because Israel controls all vital aspects of Palestinian life.. like freedom of movement! How can you act like civilized people, when someone else control's where you can go, who you can see, where you can work and even who you can marry.....

I don't West Bank residents attacking Israel like the Gazans do and they are in the same situation. No excuse.

Very simple answer there. One, Israel controls the border to Jordan and that prevents any weapons being smuggled into the West Bank. Israel does not 100% control the border between Egypt and Gaza. They only control in part the official border crossings, and cant intercept what comes through the tunnels.
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So Egypt is culpable then, too.

As for you hyperhole about improving living standards.. give me a break. Israel controls freedom of movement in the whole west bank..Israel controls who can get to work, who can marry, who can go and get medical treatment and so on.. all because of the check points.
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So, the West Bank has the same conditions yet do not attack Israel as their Gazan neighbors do...

Saying that the Palestinians on the west bank have it "better" than those on Gaza is talking margins. Only difference is that Israel totally controls the West Bank, where as in Gaza they could/can only control what goes into Gaza not what happens in Gaza.
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Huh. You just said Israel totally controls freedom of movement in Gaza...but now you're saying Israel doesn't control what happens in Gaza. Care you elaborate on this apparent contradiction?

You do know there are other factions other than Hamas right?
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It's Hamas, ain't it? And even if you want to play this game that Hamas is just a collection of disparate groups, Hamas is the recognized governing body in Gaza and has a duty to control what happens within their borders. They choose not to because what these other so-called separate factions are doing suits their whole objective. Hence, it's all Hamas all the time.

Yes, the Palestinian people elected them because they were tired of the corrupt Fata faction. Happens in a FREE democratic election, that the US supported.. sucks that the result was not what you wanted. In fact it just happened in the US.. the corrupt Republican party was dealt a huge hit in the last election right.........
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The corrupt Republicans were defeated by the corrupt Democrats.

So what if Fatah was corrupt? I tend to believe that Fatah lost because they were too moderate regarding Israel.

In that free election the Gazans chose terrorists to govern them, explicitly an endorsement of their terror operations.

No, Israel has the last say. No one can enter Gaza from air, sea, land without the approval of Israel. We are talking about the official border crossings. So the Palestinians do not control the border in any way.
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But Gazans can control what's happening within. They choose not to because they explicitly endorse the terrorism being committed by the freely elected representatives.

Israel keep preventing freedom of movement to Gaza, keeps assassinating people in Gaza, keeps the West Bank under tight control, keeps building new and expanding old settlements in the West Bank, keeps Palestinians from running their own areas, but denying freedom of movement, and so on.
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And the Palestinians and their suitors in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, and elsewhere have been attacking Israel since the day after israel was formally recognized as a sovereign nation.

Israel maintains control over these territories because they are cesspools of terrorism. Palestinians have demonstrated that they do not want to or cannot "run" their own areas because as soon as they become the governing agent in those areas those areas become launching pads for new attacks, just like Gaza.

But even so, the Palestinians presumably want their own state. Rather than behaving like animals and using terrorism to address their grievances, they could be civilized and address them politically and diplomatically. Until they choose the latter Israel is well within its rights to defend herself.

Israel never sticks to any deal, just like the Palestinians. Israel keeps expanding settlements, despite knowing that it is one of the main issues in the conflict. That's just one example. There is always an excuse by both sides to "break" any deal, because both sides don't have full control over what their populations do. Hamas does not control what other factions do, and Israel does not control what the settlers do. Same thing.
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No, not the same thing. A disgusting equivalency.

The Palestinians don't ever stick to a peace deal. Never. As soon as the ink is dry they renew killing civilians. We have watched armed clashes between IDF personnel and settlers being removed from their land. Meanwhile, Palestinians contimue puring rockets into Israel.

Do you believe that launching rockets indiscriminately into Israeli cities is a reasonable response to expanding settlements? Of course not. This is not the same thing.

Ahh now we have reached that low..... Iraq war deja vu. Where do I say I sympathize with terrorists? Terrorists are scum of the earth and it dont matter what race, religion or country they represent.
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Your sympathies are revelaed when you post gross equivalencies between the Palestinians whose only intention is to kill israeli civilians and destroy Israel and a sovereign nation defending herself from such terrorist atrocities.

I believe the establishment of the State of Israel over the head of the natives in the area was wrong from a moral, humanitarian and legal view, but since it is here now, then it aint going away. Israel is a nation in the region and that is something everyone has to accept. What we do not have to accept is the actions of said nation.
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But you're willing to accept the indiscriminate killing of civilians as a right of protest?

Because as I have stated time and time again, Israel continues with its acts of aggression against the Palestinian people in the West Bank.
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Acts of aggression...what a joke. Protecting herself ain't aggression as you're using it.

Let me ask you this...are the IDF and Israeli government blockading Gaza and preventing freedom of movement to Gaza on a daily basis.. even BEFORE the rockets, and during the cease fire? Are the Israeli, preventing the democratic elected Palestinian parliament from meeting because it has put many of its members in jail... funny they can do that in another country since you believe the West Bank is under Palestinian control or something..... Are the Israelis expanding and building new settlements in the West Bank? Are they forcing out Palestinians from Jerusalem. Are the Israeli's giving total freedom of movement in the west bank to Palestinians? .. No
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Hmmm, is there not a reasonable basis for restricting freedom of movement when those in the territories have demonstrated that they will abuse the freedom to kill Israeli civilians indiscriminately? :roll:

We can keep going on if you want, but the fact is that Israel has as much blame on the situation as the terrorists.
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Wrong. The Palestinians have not demonstrated any good faith in dealing with this diplomatically. It's not the latest violation of the ceasefire there was some unique situation. Instead, it's the usual. The Palestinians claim some grievance and then renew launching rockets. If they were acting in good faith they would not kill civilians indiscriminately, they would recognize Israel's right to exist, they would govern themselves responsibly.

The terrorists are wrong in using rockets and suicide bombers, but Israel is just as wrong by the stuff it has done and is doing in the occupied areas for 40 years...
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In territories used to launch terror attacks and rockets for 40 years. You act as though there is no reasonable basis to exert control over these areas. As soon as territory is handed over it becomes a new terror launch point. This has been true since the early areas when territory in nothern Israel was ceded back to Lebanon.

in fact they are fuelling the terror against them which is ironic,
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There we go, again. Blame the victim. Israel's very existence fuels the terorism. In other words, using your logic, simply remove Israel as a sovereign state and the terrorism what...goes away? LOL!

well you can easily claim exactly the same about the Palestinians.. they are fighting an occupying force and defending their families...
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But the Israeli's are not attacking their families.

This will go on until the terrorists lose their will or accept the right of Israel to exist.
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bub said:
- if you smoke 50 cigarettes a day, don't be astonished if you get a cancer.
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Sorry, didn't mean it as a serious philisophical thought on it. Saw a good oppertunity in WI's post to add a bit of humor into the thread, using a south park quote and thus the reason for the south park screenshot. :) Also why it wasn't part of my post just before it.
 
Zyphlin said:
Sorry, didn't mean it as a serious philisophical thought on it. Saw a good oppertunity in WI's post to add a bit of humor into the thread, using a south park quote and thus the reason for the south park screenshot. :) Also why it wasn't part of my post just before it.
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aaah sorry!

I should watch south park... :)

(and I should not get too involved in this discussion :mrgreen: )
 
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Zyphlin said:
This is the most tellign post in the whole thread. Why? Because none of the people railing against bhkad and others that were pro-Israel wanted to touch it. NONE of them responded to it because god forbid they have to debate someone intelligent, well informed, and well spoken of their arguments. They'd prefer to blather on with people they think of as easy pray and can stick to emotional diatribes with other than actually address someone with substance. Sad, but not surprising.
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maybe i missed something, but i think a mod just dissed a whole lot of us :(:lol:
and it is prey :tongue4: mister smarty pants
 
Khayembii Communique said:
9/11 is justified; the US targeted their own civilians by being involved in the Middle East.
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If you backward ass retards could drill your own wells or build your own infrastructure, we would never bother with ya. But your third world piss poor societies cannot make and maintain a firstworld infrastructure, so your governments ask westerners to come and help. Western "involvement" in the middle east, is CHARITY WORK, requested and purchased by the local government.
 
Voidwar said:
If you backward ass retards could drill your own wells or build your own infrastructure, we would never bother with ya. But your third world piss poor societies cannot make and maintain a firstworld infrastructure, so your governments ask westerners to come and help. Western "involvement" in the middle east, is CHARITY WORK, requested and purchased by the local government.
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How is that a valid response to a quote which was sarcastic?
 
EgoffTib said:
How is that a valid response to a quote which was sarcastic?
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It wasn't sarcastic. Read more of that poster's "contributions" and you will understand that he really was trying to morally equivocate between the two.
 
Voidwar said:
It wasn't sarcastic. Read more of that poster's "contributions" and you will understand that he really was trying to morally equivocate between the two.
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He was using another poster's absurd logic on a different situation. Welcome to two days ago.
 
EgoffTib said:
He was using another poster's absurd logic on a different situation.
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Incorrect. He was attempting the moral equivocation and if you don't know it, then as I instructed, read more of that poster's "contributions".
 
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