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9 Muslim Passengers Removed From Jet

SgtRock said:
He lives in a country that believes in protecting its citizens.
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I don't trust my Government with my address let alone protect me.
 
EgoffTib said:
Can you show me the evidence you have which indicates that Muslims are planning a bombing campaign?
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Unfortunately suicide Bombers keep there plans well concealed.

Paul.
 
gunner said:
Unfortunately suicide Bombers keep there plans well concealed.

Paul.
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How can anyone keep ANYTHING hidden inside the United Kingdom?

This is a country which has more cameras than ANY country in the world and go through peoples bins for God's sake.

M15 is slacking or maybe they just lost the data on terrorists
 
EgoffTib said:
So our "enemy" is dressed like a Muslim? That seems like a very ill-conceived and ignorant view on things. What happens if a white male assassinates Obama? Will the "white man" then become the next windmill for you to chase?



Well then we should certainly look into detaining all Middle Easterners as we did with AMERICANS of Japanese decent in World War Two. That seemed to be pretty effective. :roll:
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No one even suggested such a thing. But our security response is commensurate with the threat level.
 
jallman said:
No one even suggested such a thing. But our security response is commensurate with the threat level.
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In your opinion. Racial profiling isn't helping, it's simply sewing the seeds of hatred in our own country.
 
EgoffTib said:
Then why make unsupportable claims to the contrary?
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How do surmise my claims unsupportable? Do you not read the papers, watch the news? I have no need to demonstrate my ability to produce copious amounts of footage showing the aftermath of a "Bombing campaign".

Paul.
 
Laila said:
Wait, what attacks?
US hasn't had any other terrorist attacks .... has it?
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Because we give extra attention to the enemies most likely. It's not my fault there isn't an al Qada uniform to help us in our search but I would rather we were more liberal with our caution than less, right now.
 
jallman said:
Because we give extra attention to the enemies most likely. It's not my fault there isn't an al Qada uniform to help us in our search but I would rather we were more liberal with our caution than less, right now.
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I'd rather the Government attempt to stop terrorism but for every plot foiled, there may be 10 still out there. Stopping terror attacks is near impossible, you can take steps but there are alot of weak spots in any country
 
gunner said:
How do surmise my claims unsupportable? Do you not read the papers, watch the news? I have no need to demonstrate my ability to produce copious amounts of footage showing the aftermath of a "Bombing campaign".

Paul.
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You were not speaking of aftermath. You asked me to show you another ethnic group that was planning a bombing campaign. This implies that you are privy to information about a bombing campaign being planned by Muslims. So back up your claim.
 
Family Guy said:
I do and show me where any of those things violates our Constitution. Don't patronize us with your opinion rather show us one Supreme Court rulling against each one of the above that violates the Constitution.
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Family Guy, can you show where he said they DID violate the consitutiton. I think he was referring to you, rather crappily, referencing the PH quote about liberty. The reason he brought this up is...

MrVicchio said:
1. Universal Healthcare Removes liberty
2. Global Warming Carbon Controls (read cap and trade) Removes liberty
3. Progessive Income Tax Removes liberty
4. Smoking Bans in private establishments (like bars and restaurants) Removes liberty
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See, you seem to like to pick and choose about liberty. You're in favor of those things that take away peoples liberty, but you want to go throwing Patrick Henry's quote in peoples faces.

Put a bit more simply, you're being a raging, flaming, hypocrite in this post by quoting Henry. You only care ab out Liberty when it applies to things you care about, otherwise you'll happily lose liberty or see other people lose liberty without even thinking of death. Which in and of itself isn't a BAD thing...if you didn't just throw PH in his face.

MrVicchio said:
Random searches means less time spent on the most likely targets.. might "feel good" but isn't practical.
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Ah, so I'm guessing you work in law enforcement? Or near law enforcement? Or have some kind of ties to law enforcement to make this call with any kind of factual backup besides just talking out of your ass, yes?

MrVicchio said:
No, but that's because of increased security...
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Arguably because of increased security.

Do you consider terrorist attacks only those that actually take place in the United States when you're saying this? Because if you do, we went 8 years after the 1993 World Trade Center Bombings before we had another terrorist attack within our borders. Was THAT because of increased security? Or just coincidence then, but absolute truth that it is now?

Wait, are you going to bring up the Khobar Towers, or the U.S.S. Cole, or the Embassies? You can do that, but that opens up terrorist attacks outside the United States in which we HAVE suffered those in the past 7 years.

So....which is it MrVicchio? Attacks within our borders, in which case the 8 years during Clinton's term must've just been "Coincidence" but during Bush's has to have been "Security"? Or is it all terrorist attacks, in which case we have had numerous attacks?
 
jallman said:
Because we give extra attention to the enemies most likely. It's not my fault there isn't an al Qada uniform to help us in our search but I would rather we were more liberal with our caution than less, right now.
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I agree. :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I do agree with you on this one. Better safe than sorry.
 
Laila said:
Its sterotyping and singling out a group - Lets just call it what it is but i personally wouldn't really mind if i was stopped once in a while. I'd be happy to give a few minutes [no longer than that] to ensure the security of everyone else and me. Seems a small sacrifice. It would just all depend on the attitude of those who are the ones searching you.
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That's fair. I don't think you would be detained in any way that could make you angry at the government response to a terrorist threat. You may decide to be a little pissed at the person who caused your detainment by being a little jumpy around you for looking like what she percieves as an enemy, but the government really doesn't have time to make that assessment and they have to err on the side of caution..."is it a plausible threat"? I think traditionally muslim and this woman giving a definitive report of hearing this group talking about "security" and taking an interest in the engine position, even if it was hearsay... it deserved checking out. If they missed a plane, I think the airline should have flown them for free. I think that is reasonable deterrent against making an inappropriate response. I also think that the FBI assuming responsibility of the arrangement was pretty impressive and a show of good faith from our government. But the airline deserves to take a hit for not being responsible for the bad judgment of its employees and policies toward the situation.

It's really not that big a story. 9 people were detained for understandable reasons.
 
Family Guy said:
I respectfully disagree. The moral of the story is that the terrorists win every time bigotry is tolerated due to their threats. Preserving our Constitution is a lot more important to me than allowing morons on a plane to shout "FIRE" which is what they did and what the Constitution does not allow.
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Where is the right to fly in The Constitution?

A private business reserves the right to refuse service to people.
 
Zyphlin said:
Ah, so I'm guessing you work in law enforcement? Or near law enforcement? Or have some kind of ties to law enforcement to make this call with any kind of factual backup besides just talking out of your ass, yes?
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I've done enough security work with the Military to be able to speak on the issue, as GM1 used to say "Don't waste time on the little old ladies or the hotties, look for those guys that fit the profile.

Zyphlin said:
Do you consider terrorist attacks only those that actually take place in the United States when you're saying this? Because if you do, we went 8 years after the 1993 World Trade Center Bombings before we had another terrorist attack within our borders. Was THAT because of increased security? Or just coincidence then, but absolute truth that it is now?

Wait, are you going to bring up the Khobar Towers, or the U.S.S. Cole, or the Embassies? You can do that, but that opens up terrorist attacks outside the United States in which we HAVE suffered those in the past 7 years.

So....which is it MrVicchio? Attacks within our borders, in which case the 8 years during Clinton's term must've just been "Coincidence" but during Bush's has to have been "Security"? Or is it all terrorist attacks, in which case we have had numerous attacks?
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I'm more considered with attacks on US targets and interests.
 
jallman said:
That's fair. I don't think you would be detained in any way that could make you angry at the government response to a terrorist threat. You may decide to be a little pissed at the person who caused your detainment by being a little jumpy around you for looking like what she percieves as an enemy, but the government really doesn't have time to make that assessment and they have to err on the side of caution..."is it a plausible threat"? I think traditionally muslim and this woman giving a definitive report of hearing this group talking about "security" and taking an interest in the engine position, even if it was hearsay... it deserved checking out. If they missed a plane, I think the airline should have flown them for free. I think that is reasonable deterrent against making an inappropriate response. I also think that the FBI assuming responsibility of the arrangement was pretty impressive and a show of good faith from our government. But the airline deserves to take a hit for not being responsible for the bad judgment of its employees and policies toward the situation.

It's really not that big a story. 9 people were detained for understandable reasons.
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I hope not anyway, thats where my problems lie. 'The enemy'
Is someone your enemy just for believing in a certain faith?

But lets look at it logically, those who dress up in traditional muslim garb would be less likely to be terrorists compared to those who don't.
I can look ultra extreme one day and normal as hell the other.
If the Government base its searches on those who dress a certain way then if i was planning to bomb something in the US. You'd be damn sure i'd be walking around in a mini skirt and heels as i'd be overlooked
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Where is the right to fly in The Constitution?

A private business reserves the right to refuse service to people.
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Under federal law, not on the basis of race, religion, ethnic background, sex or age.
 
Iriemon said:
Under federal law, not on the basis of race, religion, ethnic background, sex or age.
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Bars and restaraunts have dress codes. There are also codes of conduct. You can't say "bomb" or lot's of other things on an airplane.

I'm sorry dark skinned people who happen to be Muslim, but security is the number one priority. They were wrong, it was an inconvenience for you. But everyone travelled safely. It's not like you were imprisoned.

May I suggest you organize marches in protest of Hamas and Hezbollah.

The typical white person just doesn't know enough about your culture to discern past the fact that you are different. We can't tell the good from the bad.
 
Laila said:
I hope not anyway, thats where my problems lie. 'The enemy'
Is someone your enemy just for believing in a certain faith?

But lets look at it logically, those who dress up in traditional muslim garb would be less likely to be terrorists compared to those who don't.
I can look ultra extreme one day and normal as hell the other.
If the Government base its searches on those who dress a certain way then if i was planning to bomb something in the US. You'd be damn sure i'd be walking around in a mini skirt and heels as i'd be overlooked
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I agree with you. And that's where random searches hit. This wasn't a case of just Muslim garb, obvious or not. It wasn't for looking a certain way. It was for matching several of the obvious signs of a probable enemy. At this point in time, in terms of global conflict and the desperation of these extremists like Hamas, Hezbolla, Al Qada, and the Taliban, our response is reasonable. It's not about being of a certain faith per se, but we know that a lot of terrorists happen to be Muslims and tend to do desperate things.

Muslims and everyone else should be glad to assist in ferreting them out just to help stop them. When someone steals your wallet, you don't just let them have your identity while he's at it. You are proactive about stopping it and you certainly wouldn't hinder a legitimate investigation into finding them.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Bars and restaraunts have dress codes. There are also codes of conduct. You can't say "bomb" or lot's of other things on an airplane.
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How does he address the fact that he proved that your notion of private business having the type of absolute authority cited is inaccurate?

(Also, why should I get in trouble if I say, "I bombed my final exam" to my friend just because I'm in an airport? Isn't this word sensitivity going a bit overboard?)
 
jallman said:
I agree with you. And that's where random searches hit. This wasn't a case of just Muslim garb, obvious or not. It wasn't for looking a certain way. It was for matching several of the obvious signs of a probable enemy.
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"Wow, the jets are right next to my window." and looking Middle Eastern are enough to suspect that someone is an enemy? :shock:
 
Travelsonic said:
How does he address the fact that he proved that your notion of private business having the type of absolute authority cited is inaccurate?

(Also, why should I get in trouble if I say, "I bombed my final exam" to my friend just because I'm in an airport? Isn't this word sensitivity going a bit overboard?)
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Well, you saying that wouldn't get you thrown off of a flight. It takes discretion. If you find yourself in a grey area, err on the side of caution.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
The typical white person just doesn't know enough about your culture to discern past the fact that you are different. We can't tell the good from the bad
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Can't tell the difference? Would people like us to shoot terrorists and post it over youtube to show we are good guys.

I don't see this need Non Muslims do of me having to prove that im not a terrorist or patriotic just because i follow a certain faith that is in the spotlight
 
EgoffTib said:
"Wow, the jets are right next to my window." and looking Middle Eastern are enough to suspect that someone is an enemy? :shock:
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The amount of times i have bitched about the plane and my seating and the airport in general ... :shock:
 
jallman said:
Muslims and everyone else should be glad to assist in ferreting them out just to help stop them. When someone steals your wallet, you don't just let them have your identity while he's at it. You are proactive about stopping it and you certainly wouldn't hinder a legitimate investigation into finding them.
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Seeing its Muslims within the community who assist the police in rooting out extremism in mosques within the UK, I'd say we're doing everything.

So i don't look middle eastern tho but i could be a terrorist or how about a friend of mine who is a white convert. Do white Muslims get overlooked?
 
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