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Smoking ban leads to major drop in heart attacks

Yes.. I am one and would never dream of tossing my butts out the window! Birds can DIE from ciggy butts. :( I also have a tinfoil like ashtray thingy (more like a little pocket thing and hard to describe) I keep in my purse to use to put my ciggy's out in public if I cannot find a public ashtray:2razz:

I totally respect my non-smoking friends by not smoking around em unless they tell me it is o.k. ;)

Will you go around the country teaching a "Smoker's Ettiquette Class"? I'll be your publicist. ;)

If there were more smokers like you, Kali, I would be much more accepting of smoking.
 
Please do not hate me cause that would break my heart. For real:(

I say that, Kali, but I can't hate all smokers. I have co-workers who I absolutely adore and they smoke. I just don't hang out with them when they do.
 
Public access is bull**** word used as excuse for depriving people of property rights. The fact that the public can come into a bar does not make it not private property any more or mean that these people can't decide for themselves whether to go into that property.

The one that irks me is that in my city you cannot smoke on bar patios or inside the bar... but you can't bring your beer onto the sidewalk... one bouncer at a bar put it perfectly : ONE vice at a time.

So, why didn't you ever see non-smoking bars before government decided to get these crazy laws in place?? Because most of the people that drink at bars also smoke... yet it seems that even having a closed off smoking section isn't enough.

People are capable of deciding these things for themselves, they don't need tthe state to deprive the rights of property owners.
Precisely.

Seriously... at this point, why not just ban the sale of tobacco... let people grow it for themselves or get it off the black market. Smoking rates would quickly drop to the point of non-existance because the more addictive additives would no longer be found, smoking is an unpleasant activity to start, having to deal with a 'cigarette dealer' in a back alley wouldn't appeal to many, and the people that are highly addicted would just have to resort to either growing their own or dealing with the withdrawal.


I see it as just an example of how social engineering works :
a) increase taxes related to the undesired behavior
b) add a new regulation to restrict the activity further
c) heavily advertise the negatives of the behavior and the outcome
d) let people adjust to the new reality
e) repeat untill the behavior becomes a 'non-issue'
 
Isn't Obama a closet smoker? I can't see him taking up the issue if he's lighting up too.
He says he has quit now but we all know how hard it is to stop the nicotine habit. He did say that he will never smoke in or around the White House which is completely non-smoking.
 
Who has advocated allowing people to smoke wherever they want?

I don't mind stepping outside to smoke, but I do mind when the government tells owners of private property that people no longer have the right to smoke on it.

That said, I do believe that every airport needs a smoking section. I got stuck in Phoenix Sky Harbor for 3 hours and they wouldn't let me go outside because of all the fear of hijacking. That's bull****, smokers pay billions of extra dollars in taxes every year ye not-as-patriotic non-smokers do so, yes, smokers should get some rights.
You couldn't feel comfortable by not smoking for three hours? What does that say about the level of your nicotine addiction? If you're willing to admit your addicted doesn't that make you also realize that the only reason people smoke is because of nicotine? If they took all nicotine out of cigarettes what would happen to the cigarette industry?
 
I really don't think there is (evidence that second hand smoke kills).
WOW! Are you saying that the American Lung Association, the American Cancer Society, the National Institute of Health, the EPA et al are all lying and making it all up in some sort of ponzi scheme?

Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet - American Lung Association site

Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet

Secondhand smoke, also know as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS), is a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, pipe or cigar and the smoke exhaled from the lungs of smokers. It is involuntarily inhaled by nonsmokers, lingers in the air hours after cigarettes have been extinguished and can cause or exacerbate a wide range of adverse health effects, including cancer, respiratory infections, and asthma.

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Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen).

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Secondhand smoke exposure causes disease and premature death in children and adults who do not smoke. Secondhand smoke contains hundreds of chemicals known to be toxic or carcinogenic, including formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic ammonia and hydrogen cyanide.

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Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 22,700-69,600 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year.

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Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of secondhand smoke in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces.

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Since 1999, 70 percent of the U.S. workforce worked under a smoke-free policy, ranging from 83.9 percent in Utah to 48.7 percent in Nevada. Workplace productivity was increased and absenteeism was decreased among former smokers compared with current smokers.
ACS :: Secondhand Smoke

Secondhand Smoke: Questions and Answers - National Cancer Institute

Secondhand Smoke | Indoor Environmental Asthma Triggers | Asthma | Indoor Air Quality | Air | US EPA

Secondhand Smoke - no-smoke.org

And if all of that is not a "mountain of evidence" then just go to this Google page for an endless mountain that proves that second hand smoke kills.

second hand smoke - Google Search
 
Do you own property?
Yes I do. Private property and commercial property are regulated very differently. There are a "mountain" of laws that protect the public in commercial establishments i.e. health laws about food quality, laws about cleanliness in a restaurant etc. No smoking is the same thing. It protects the public from exposure to a known carcinogen. The EPA protects America from businesses poisoning us. Smoking poisons Americans.

Here in NYC we've had a city wide indoor smoking ban in all commercial establishments for quite a few years now and I know of no statistics that support that businesses went belly up because people couldn't smoke inside.

I could make a strong argument that more people go to restaurants now knowing that they the air quality inside is not poisoned by someone else's carcinogen.
 
There is no evidence that second hand smoke is dangerous.

I am a registered respiratory therapist.Without listing the reasons/rational for why I ,and others,believe that second hand smoke is bad for the person recieving it,I come down on the side of the smoker haveing the right to smoke and the businesses haveing the freedom to say yes or no...You can smoke here. I have a 30 pack year smokeing history and an shakeable belief that cigs are bad for you(it comes with the education). OK take the test! Go to a bar for 4 hrs where there is heavy tobacco use,have fun,pick up a date,have more fun,Then in a well lighted room swab areas around your nose with a white hanky. End of test. The results may influence your beliefs,but the tyranical U.S.Gov shouldn`t be allowed to force new beliefs on you.SMOKE...SMOKE...SMOKE dat cigarett,but blow the smoke the other way please.
 
You couldn't feel comfortable by not smoking for three hours? What does that say about the level of your nicotine addiction? If you're willing to admit your addicted doesn't that make you also realize that the only reason people smoke is because of nicotine? If they took all nicotine out of cigarettes what would happen to the cigarette industry?

Hey when I quit the last time which was 10 years ago, I bought some of those herbal cigarettes that have no nicotine in them and they do not satisfy at all. I still have 4 packs of them in my freezer. I pulled one out several months back cause I just felt like smoking, and although I actually enjoyed it for sentimental reasons, I got nothing physically satisfying out of it, just the blowing smoke part was kinda cool.

I had a huge plan when I quit because I was so addicted. I knew I couldn't think straight when I needed my nicotine fix. It was a real bitch.
 
So you should not be able to be smoke outside? If it is a public place? I do not see the big deal and having said that? I would make sure if I was in an area where there were kids to step off somewhere to myself to smoke. I would NOT be smoking in an area full of kids but at the same time? I should be allowed as a free citzen in this country to find a smoking spot in a Public Park and be able to smoke my ciggy in peace. ;)

Kali makes a very good point.Even the sight of an adult doing bad things can influence a child to emulate the ADULT behavior(just buy a kid a pack of candy cigs...it takes the kid about 10 seconds to fire one up with his/her imaginary lighter) If you want your children to smoke just do it in front of them and then tell them,"don`t you EVER smoke". As to the air quality/second hand smoke deal...there are ways to clean the air up reasonably well in public places,and if you feel its not clean enough,don`t go there or write your do-nothing congressman( not about bannig smokeing ..demand better air cleaning system regs)
 
Hey when I quit the last time which was 10 years ago, I bought some of those herbal cigarettes that have no nicotine in them and they do not satisfy at all. I still have 4 packs of them in my freezer. I pulled one out several months back cause I just felt like smoking, and although I actually enjoyed it for sentimental reasons, I got nothing physically satisfying out of it, just the blowing smoke part was kinda cool.

I had a huge plan when I quit because I was so addicted. I knew I couldn't think straight when I needed my nicotine fix. It was a real bitch.
I quit about 11 years ago too and I know the only real reason that I smoked was nicotine. It effected me in so many ways. I would avoid going certain places if I could not smoke meaning attending events with my kids or my wife because I didn't want to not smoke for three hours or whatever.

Do you know of any other product that is sold in America that is ingested that carries a mandatory cancer warning on it's packaging?
 
Hey when I quit the last time which was 10 years ago, I bought some of those herbal cigarettes that have no nicotine in them and they do not satisfy at all. I still have 4 packs of them in my freezer. I pulled one out several months back cause I just felt like smoking, and although I actually enjoyed it for sentimental reasons, I got nothing physically satisfying out of it, just the blowing smoke part was kinda cool.

I had a huge plan when I quit because I was so addicted. I knew I couldn't think straight when I needed my nicotine fix. It was a real bitch.

I`ve been off the dodes for 5 years now.I think they stink like cigarettes,99.9% of the time,.1% of the time I want one.The thread was about `heart problems and second hand smoke`.So 5 years ago I had this very bad rhythem take over my heart.6 weeks into it a cardiologist told me,"quiting smokeing will do more for you than all the drugs I can give you". I quit and while it wasn`t an instant cure,when my nicotinic receptors,and GABA levels,and all the other brain chemistry leveled of I was back to semi-normal,(inthe cardio department),plus I had well over a hunert bucks left in my pocket each month.
 
I quit about 11 years ago too and I know the only real reason that I smoked was nicotine. It effected me in so many ways. I would avoid going certain places if I could not smoke meaning attending events with my kids or my wife because I didn't want to not smoke for three hours or whatever.

Do you know of any other product that is sold in America that is ingested that carries a mandatory cancer warning on it's packaging?

In many many trades the air is loaded with carcinogenics.They are a fact of life and ingested even if you don`t wan`t to huff the stuff.This is fodder for workable environmental regs..."workable" being the operative.I worked in an electronics lab...I worked in a glass factory...I worked in construction/carpentry,etc. I knew I was safe though because the labels said "it only causes cancer in California". The EPA is one of the most ignorant/ineffecteive tyranical arms of our government(well besides FEMA,TSA,HEW,DOE and many more....). OK so heres the answer,THER IS NOW FOOLPROOF ANSWER,but we CAN do better. Our homes are some of the most toxic places on earth.Check out the cancer rates in children since the days of cotton curtains, wool rugs,and natural dyes.The oil industry makes more money on synthetics,and Chinese stuffed animals are fluffier,(I choked on my tears when I gave treatments to the bald 4 year old with the bald stuffed critter)...WE HAVE TO DO BETTER.
 
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Yes I do. Private property and commercial property are regulated very differently. There are a "mountain" of laws that protect the public in commercial establishments i.e. health laws about food quality, laws about cleanliness in a restaurant etc. No smoking is the same thing. It protects the public from exposure to a known carcinogen. The EPA protects America from businesses poisoning us. Smoking poisons Americans.

Here in NYC we've had a city wide indoor smoking ban in all commercial establishments for quite a few years now and I know of no statistics that support that businesses went belly up because people couldn't smoke inside.

I could make a strong argument that more people go to restaurants now knowing that they the air quality inside is not poisoned by someone else's carcinogen.
The fact the state likes to interfere in private property a lot doesn't change much. This is not about secretly poisoning people, it is a quite open habit that people can choose if they want to associate with. If you don't think that people can decide this for themselves then you pretty much must give up any notion of private property, just about anything could be excused from that jumping off point.
 
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WOW! Are you saying that the American Lung Association, the American Cancer Society, the National Institute of Health, the EPA et al are all lying and making it all up in some sort of ponzi scheme?
It wouldn't surprise me. In Australia there was a big fuss over binge drinking and the "scientific" group who decide on safe drinking levels(I forget there name) suddenly revised down their levels and I believe are planning to do it again soon. Science and science groups are not immune from politics.
 
It wouldn't surprise me. In Australia there was a big fuss over binge drinking and the "scientific" group who decide on safe drinking levels(I forget there name) suddenly revised down their levels and I believe are planning to do it again soon. Science and science groups are not immune from politics.
It wouldn't "surprise you" that the major scientific research groups in the US, most of which are non-profit are involved in a ponzi scheme to steal your money and lie to the world about cancer causing things?

Really? Is that the side you really want to be associated with? You're saying that groups like the American Lung Association, the American Cancer Society, The National Institute of Health, Harvard Medical School, Mass General Hospital, etc. are all involved in a giant conspiracy? Really?
 
It wouldn't "surprise you" that the major scientific research groups in the US, most of which are non-profit are involved in a ponzi scheme to steal your money and lie to the world about cancer causing things?
Everyone has an agenda.

The Facts about second hand smoke - Agendas
Really? Is that the side you really want to be associated with? You're saying that groups like the American Lung Association, the American Cancer Society, The National Institute of Health, Harvard Medical School, Mass General Hospital, etc. are all involved in a giant conspiracy? Really?
I'm saying they could be.

Passive smoking is something that I've only heard about for the last five years or so, just when the anti-smoking, anti-property thugs have been campaigning and even winning(let's face it New Labour are thugs so it isn't hard.).
 
The fact the state likes to interfere in private property a lot doesn't change much. This is not about secretly poisoning people, it is a quite open habit that people can choose if they want to associate with. If you don't think that people can decide this for themselves then you pretty much must give up any notion of private property, just about anything could be excused from that jumping off point.
I think you're wrong. It is about government protecting the people from harm whether it be militarily or health the concept and need are the same.

I read your post and conclude that you prefer that we do not have a government at all. Is that what you mean?
 
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I think you're wrong. It is about government protecting the people from harm whether it be militarily or health the concept and need are the same.

I read your post and conclude that you prefer that we do not have a government at all. Is that what you mean?
I
No although my ideal gov't is mainly very local. I prefer however that some rights to private property remain and that idea that the gov't can ban this open, well known, traditional activity from bars when people can make their own choices is destroying property and can also be used as a jumping off post for just about any other invasion of property. You might as well just raise the hammer and sickle now.
 
No although my ideal gov't is mainly very local. I prefer however that some rights to private property remain and that idea that the gov't can ban this open, well known, traditional activity from bars when people can make their own choices is destroying property and can also be used as a jumping off post for just about any other invasion of property. You might as well just raise the hammer and sickle now.
How do you expect me to take you seriously when you call our government Soviet like?

Second hand smoke kills and why should the rights of the people who are killing others be protected more than the rights of those who are the victims? Why not then allow drunken driving? Shouldn't people be allowed to do what they want and if people are stupid enough to drive knowing that a drunk driver might kill them that is their risk?

There are many laws that protect the public from being harmed by other members of the public and banning smoking in public places is one of them and is one that I fully support. I also know that there's zero chance that these laws will ever be rescinded so I think it would be wise for people to put their energies somewhere more productive?

I for one hope government continues to raise the cigarette taxes because it makes people stop smoking and that benefits society. Have you considered how much the cost of smoking affects all of our health care costs? It's enormous.
 
Everyone has an agenda.

The Facts about second hand smoke - Agendas
I'm saying they could be.

Passive smoking is something that I've only heard about for the last five years or so, just when the anti-smoking, anti-property thugs have been campaigning and even winning(let's face it New Labour are thugs so it isn't hard.).
With all due respect but your supporting your argument with a website that has no scientific affiliation versus a plethora of science based organizations. Not exactly a fair fight, you know?

Second hand smoke concerns have been around far more than the last 5 years just because you haven't been aware of it doesn't mean it's a new concept.
 
I`ve been off the dodes for 5 years now.I think they stink like cigarettes,99.9% of the time,.1% of the time I want one.The thread was about `heart problems and second hand smoke`.So 5 years ago I had this very bad rhythem take over my heart.6 weeks into it a cardiologist told me,"quiting smokeing will do more for you than all the drugs I can give you". I quit and while it wasn`t an instant cure,when my nicotinic receptors,and GABA levels,and all the other brain chemistry leveled of I was back to semi-normal,(inthe cardio department),plus I had well over a hunert bucks left in my pocket each month.

Good for you! Hurrah!!! Hey, I live right outside of Nashville. Small world. Two less smokers around here now.:2razz:
 
There is no second-hand fat, no second-hand sugar.
Also, there are safe amounts of sugar. There is no such thing as a safe amount of nicotine and the other POISONS in tobacco smoke.

Again though: plenty of parents have unhealthy habits and if you eat junk food and make yourself unhealthy by eating all this crap then die of a heartattack you hurt your kids simply based on your lifestyle choices and eating habits. Do you wish for the gov. to step in and tell you how to eat?

Also do you think parents feeding their kids crappy foods is child abuse? Cause that can cause all kinds of medical problems too.

WE need to be very careful about just how much gov. we all want inside our own personal lives beause if we get tooooo much of it? It is a step towards our very own simply daily freedoms being taken away. BE careful what ya wish for cause if you wish for more gov. up in your own personal life? You may get it and bet you will not like it if you enjoy your freedom. :shock:
 
Will you go around the country teaching a "Smoker's Ettiquette Class"? I'll be your publicist. ;)

If there were more smokers like you, Kali, I would be much more accepting of smoking.

Lets Do It! Maybe we could get rich:mrgreen:
 
With all due respect but your supporting your argument with a website that has no scientific affiliation versus a plethora of science based organizations. Not exactly a fair fight, you know?
What argument? That almost everyone has an agenda. I frankly do not know, or care whether there is much evidence for second hand smoke. I believe in private property.

Second hand smoke concerns have been around far more than the last 5 years just because you haven't been aware of it doesn't mean it's a new concept.
It has only been big since the media got on the band wagon and hyped it up.
 
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