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Possible ceasefire in Gaza

Should such terms be offered, Israel should reject them. Such terms would favor Hamas.

In effect, Hamas would gain an end of the restrictions simply from its having resorted to firing rockets on Israel. In any negotiation, Israel should seek nothing less than fulfillment of the Madrid Quartet's terms (recognition of Israel, abandoning of violence by Hamas, and respect for existing diplomatic agreements by Hamas), along with a verifiable regime for Hamas' returning the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority and disarming, and the release of Cpl. Shalit. Any prolonged ceasefire should be conditioned on such terms.

Hamas should not benefit from its having resorted to rocket attacks. Otherwise, Hamas' position will be further strengthened and the position of moderates who might be more inclined to pursue diplomacy weakened.

I agree with you. But in the short term, we need a simple "emergency" agreement that could be done in 48 hours.

Then, you are right, a next treaty should include the conditions you cited, along with concessions from Israel too, such as leaving all colonies that are outside the green line. If both parts don't make concessions, it will be impossible to bring peace!
 
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I agree with you. But in the short term, we need a simple "emergency" agreement that could be done in 48 hours.

Then, you are right, a next treaty should include the conditions you cited, along with concessions from Israel too, such as leaving all colonies that are outside the green line.

The problem is that such an agreement will likely not be reached after the ceasefire. The time that passes favors Hamas in terms of propaganda and the fading resolve of the Israeli public to support a ground force. I'm not saying the ceasefire is not a good thing, because there's always the chance of a Hamas turn around, but it will be important how Israel responds if an acceptable agreement is not reached.
 
Goobieman asked, quote(IF the reason for the rocket attacks is the blockade, why isnt Hamas hitting Egypt with rockets?)

The reason for the rocket attacks is that Hamas want Israel destroyed as a Jewish State.
This is their stated intention, it is the reason why they refuse to honor any previous agreements made by previous Palestinian Governments.
A Truce is pointless, if Israel make such an agreement with Hamas, it will be seen as a victory by Hamas and as another defeat of Israel, the first defeat being their abortive fight with Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Either Israel kills Hamas within Gaza (to be honest they can never defeat Hamas worldwide) or they will continue to be bombarded with rockets and worse.
 
Either Israel kills Hamas within Gaza (to be honest they can never defeat Hamas worldwide) or they will continue to be bombarded with rockets and worse.

Hamas was elected. Which means that a majority of Palestinians support them. If you use the military way, you'd have to kill all of them, and doing so will make Hamas gain even more support. That's why it won't work.
 
a ceasefire is temporary, it would be a truce. That would be the first step before negociation with the Hamas. They could negociate the end of the blockade vs. end of rocket launches.

All it would do is allow Hamas to regroup and continue to ungrade their arms for another round with Israel.
 
According to Yigal Palmor, Israeli minister, there could be a permanent truce. The condition is that they want guarantees that Hamas stops launching rockets.

They have however rejected the French proposal of ceasefire.

Israël envisage une trêve permanente - lesoir.be

Le Figaro - International : Israël prêt à de «longues semaines d'action»

The cease fire as proposed should be rejected. There is no benefit for Israel in it.

Thanks for the Le Figaro link. I was going to look there anyway for a French viewpoint. Personally, I prefer it to Le Monde.
 
The cease fire as proposed should be rejected. There is no benefit for Israel in it.

I don't get your point of view.

Of course if they stop the raids now they don't have guarantees that Hamas will stop launching rockets.

But if they continue the raids, they can't guarantee it neither! Even if they kill 3 or 400 Hamas members and destroy most of their rockets, they won't prevent the 1,500,000 Palestinians in Gaza from supporting the Hamas. That's why if they do nothing else than the attacks, rockets are going to be launched again, next week or next month: it's not difficult to recruit new "martyrs" and to smuggle rockets!

If they want to prevent Hamas from doing that, they should attack the roots of the problem, understand why Palestinians support the Hamas and act consequently to stop this support.

Here is a hint:

Blockade helps Gaza militants, says report | World news | The Guardian
Israel's economic blockade stops Gaza's strawberry-farmers selling their crop - Middle East, World - The Independent
Gaza Blockade Threatening Civilian Health | OneWorld.net (U.S.)
Gaza: Gaza experiences bread shortages as Israel continues blockade - Los Angeles Times

Of course I understand the reasons of the blockade: Israel wants to prevent rockets to enter Gaza. However this goal is not achieved (rockets are still launched) and it has a counterproductive effect, as it makes support for Hamas grow.
 
Hamas was elected. Which means that a majority of Palestinians support them. If you use the military way, you'd have to kill all of them, and doing so will make Hamas gain even more support. That's why it won't work.

In June 2007, Hamas used arms to seize complete control of the Gaza Strip. Hamas' coup was illegitimate, as it violated the provisions of the Palestinians' constitution.
 
Bub - Israel has to do everything it can to cripple Hamas's infrastructure and ability to carry out further attacks. A cease fire does NOT accomplish this. The EU (UE) will not get involved to guarantee this. Only Israel can do that to the best of their ability.

As for the blockade, if Hamas is going to try to import weapons (which they had done) of course there should be a blockade. If they are going to send terrorists across the border, of course there should be a blockade. You can't seem to accept this. It is nice sitting in the middle of peaceful Europe being critical of a democracy constantly under attack from neighbors who want to destroy it.
 
Israel rejects ceasefire deal
Israeli leaders have decided to reject an immediate 48-hour pause in fighting and push ahead with the devastating air offensive against Hamas, pounding targets through pouring rain as the Gaza Strip entered its fifth day of battle.

Israel is facing growing international pressure to halt the assault, and Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert discussed a ceasefire proposal with his foreign and defence ministers overnight.
 
In June 2007, Hamas used arms to seize complete control of the Gaza Strip. Hamas' coup was illegitimate, as it violated the provisions of the Palestinians' constitution.

You may be right, but the important element is that they seem to be supported by many Palestinians, and that the blockade reinforces this support. It's unfortunate and I regret it, but it's like that.
 
Bub - Israel has to do everything it can to cripple Hamas's infrastructure and ability to carry out further attacks. A cease fire does NOT accomplish this.

The raids neither. And a ceasefire does not kill civilians and does not make Palestinians support Hamas because of the killed civilians.

As for the blockade, if Hamas is going to try to import weapons (which they had done) of course there should be a blockade. If they are going to send terrorists across the border, of course there should be a blockade. You can't seem to accept this. It is nice sitting in the middle of peaceful Europe being critical of a democracy constantly under attack from neighbors who want to destroy it.

Argument countered above: the blockade does not work anyway.

Then, if I'm critical, it's also because I think that Israel could be in peace if it behaved differently. I'm not the one who gets bombed by my neighbors.
 
The raids neither. And a ceasefire does not kill civilians and does not make Palestinians support Hamas because of the killed civilians.

Argument countered above: the blockade does not work anyway.

Then, if I'm critical, it's also because I think that Israel could be in peace if it behaved differently. I'm not the one who gets bombed by my neighbors.

Actually, the blockade waqs worked reasonably well. It isn't perfect, but it makes it difficult for Hamas to acquire more sophisiticated weapons and also impedes them from sending suicide bombers into Israel.
 
Actually, the blockade waqs worked reasonably well. It isn't perfect, but it makes it difficult for Hamas to acquire more sophisiticated weapons and also impedes them from sending suicide bombers into Israel.

Does it prevent them from launching rockets? I didn't know that!
 
Israel should reject all ceasefires that do not include Hamas handing over all rockets to the UN and full UN over sight of Hamas weapons.
 
I think it would be a big mistake for Israel to agree to a ceasefire until all Hamas in Gaza cease to exist. I suggest they ____ __ ___. fill in the blanks. Even if it takes an extensive protracted ground invasion supported by close air support. Give Hamas what they want, martyrdom. Send them all to hell where they belong!
 
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I find it ironic that when Israel launches airstrikes and accidently kills civilians they get international pressure put on them. Yet when Hamas launches rockets during a ceasefire, truce, or treaty right next to children's schools and in dense civilian population centers which are intended to randomly kill Israeli's there isn't a single peep from the international community putting pressure on Hamas.

If Hamas is the true political entity which is supported by the people then its time for "the people" to reap the consequences for their support. There is no "summer soldiering" or fence ridding in this situation.
 
America i love, is there any chance, only but you can sort this problem out.

how about it my good friends.

my kindest regards to u all again.
 
But since they are unable to destroy the Hamas and that they are bombing empty buildings, what is the point of keeping on bombing Gaza?

(and according to Le Figaro it would be a French or European truce proposal. Livni is going to Paris on tuesday and will discuss about it)

To terrorize people into becoming terrorists so the cycle can continue and they end up with more power over time.
 
Arab nations are circulating a UNSC resolution that would place all of the blame on Israel. Yeah, like THAT is going to get passed. :rofl

The UNSC is debating now. Libya is proposing a resolution that puts all of the blame on Israel and only calls for guarantees for Gaza. I wonder what will happen if they are still debating at midnight New York time regarding the five members whose terms end in five hours.

Now, the Israeli Ambassador is speaking after the Palestinian envoy completed his speech.
 
Arab nations are circulating a UNSC resolution that would place all of the blame on Israel. Yeah, like THAT is going to get passed. :rofl

LOL
True, damn that veto power =D
 
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