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Israeli air strikes target Gaza

Vader said:
That depends greatly on the contents of the warhead portion of the bomb.

If the warhed is weak, it will not do a great deal of blast damage; however, the weight of the bomb will make it useful against a single structure. The structure could be utterly pulversized with minimal damage to surrounding stuctures. This would have the effect of limiting incidental casualties (with the possible exception of those inside the traget structure).
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ludahai said:
And the symbolism was NOT lost on the terrorists. They are on the offensive because they don't want Israel to stop with Gaza or the West Bank. They won't stop until Israel is driven into the Mediterranean Sea.
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Truth Detector said:
In order to understand the attrition done to Gaza, one must first recognize that Hammas is the one that brought this attrition about.

One can only support terrorism by wallowing in profound denial about their history.

Does ANYONE who sympathizes with the Palestinian plight honestly believe that Hammas or Hezbollah REALLY want peace?
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Collateral damages are inevitable in a war. But there are still many civilians killed in Gaza.

Do you think it's a good tactic to kill some of them (by accident) so that they reject the Hamas? Do you think it's what Israel does, and do you support it?
 
Truth Detector said:
Does ANYONE who sympathizes with the Palestinian plight honestly believe that Hammas or Hezbollah REALLY want peace?
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Nope. Then again, neither do the Zionist leaders of Israel. So what we have are a bunch of innocent people being thrown into a conflict because two headstrong factions refuse to budge. This is why I advocate pulling support from Israel and condemning both countries actions.
 
EgoffTib said:
Nope. Then again, neither do the Zionist leaders of Israel. So what we have are a bunch of innocent people being thrown into a conflict because two headstrong factions refuse to budge. This is why I advocate pulling support from Israel and condemning both countries actions.
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You are wrong. Israel gave back land in an effort to make peace. What has Hamas done? What have the Palestinians done? NOTHING ... NOT ONE DAMN THING!!!!

Your assumptions about Israel are WRONG.
 
Vader said:
You are wrong. Israel gave back land in an effort to make peace. What has Hamas done? What have the Palestinians done? NOTHING ... NOT ONE DAMN THING!!!!

Your assumptions about Israel are WRONG.
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haven't they actually called for numerous ceasefires?

now of course they only using it to resupply, but still....:lol:
 
bub said:
Collateral damages are inevitable in a war. But there are still many civilians killed in Gaza.

Do you think it's a good tactic to kill some of them (by accident) so that they reject the Hamas? Do you think it's what Israel does, and do you support it?
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No. Then again ... Israel DOES NOT target civilians. Targeting civilians is usually something that Hamas does.

Again, Israel is NOT targeting civilians. Hamas is hiding among civilians because they (a) Don't give a damn what happens to citizens of Palestine; (b) Think hiding in civilian areas will prevent retaliation from Israel; and (c) like using the civilian casualty angle to take the heat off themselves and avoid responsibility for the deaths caused by their own actions.
 
DeeJayH said:
haven't they actually called for numerous ceasefires?

now of course they only using it to resupply, but still....:lol:
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Those don't count as legitimate because they wanted to resupply and rearm for further conflict.

:)
 
Vader said:
You are wrong. Israel gave back land in an effort to make peace. What has Hamas done? What have the Palestinians done? NOTHING ... NOT ONE DAMN THING!!!!

Your assumptions about Israel are WRONG.
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Gave back land after they had taken almost all of it. Very impressive attempt at peacemaking. In the future, if you do not know what you are talking about, it's best not to open your mouth.

http://www.zionismexplained.org/map/landmap1.jpg
Moderator's Warning:
Image stretches browser. Text link intact.
 
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Truth Detector said:
One can only support terrorism by wallowing in profound denial about their history.
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Or by refusing to wallow in denial about our own. Terrorism is how war is fought against nations that are larger, better armed, and better funded than your own; it is the only way that such wars can be won. And if you think that our own fine country has not deliberately targeted citizens, from the Revolution through Vietnam and then some, your history teachers have done you a grave disservice.

Truth Detector said:
Does ANYONE who sympathizes with the Palestinian plight honestly believe that Hammas or Hezbollah REALLY want peace?
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No. They want victory. They do not want to share their land with the people who took it from them-- they want it back. To them, there is no peace while they are living as refugees on their own land. Leave aside whose side you are on-- the same side that I am on-- for a moment, and ask yourself if you can honestly blame them.

I can't. Then again, I don't need to blame them to justify killing them; it is enough for me that they are at war with our ally.
 
Vader said:
No. Then again ... Israel DOES NOT target civilians. Targeting civilians is usually something that Hamas does.

Again, Israel is NOT targeting civilians. Hamas is hiding among civilians because they (a) Don't give a damn what happens to citizens of Palestine; (b) Think hiding in civilian areas will prevent retaliation from Israel; and (c) like using the civilian casualty angle to take the heat off themselves and avoid responsibility for the deaths caused by their own actions.
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Yes, they don't target civilians, I know that

But don't you think taht the aim of the raid is to destroy buildings and kill some Hamas members, with the predictible but unwanted death of civilians, so that Palestinians understand that they should stop supporting Hamas if they want to stop the raids?
 
bub said:
Yes, they don't target civilians, I know that

But don't you think taht the aim of the raid is to destroy buildings and kill some Hamas members, with the predictible but unwanted death of civilians, so that Palestinians understand that they should stop supporting Hamas if they want to stop the raids?
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yeah, and do you think there is anything wrong with that

it is called 'breaking the will of the enemy'
or 'turning public opinion against the status quo'
 
EgoffTib said:
Gave back land after they had taken almost all of it. Very impressive attempt at peacemaking. In the future, if you do not know what you are talking about, it's best not to open your mouth.

http://www.zionismexplained.org/map/landmap1.jpg
Moderator's Warning:
Image stretches browser. Text link intact.
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the gaza colonies were about 5 or 6% of the total size of the illegal colonies.

8,000 settlers left Gaza while 40,000 went to West Bank
 
Vader said:
Those don't count as legitimate because they wanted to resupply and rearm for further conflict.
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That's what everyone does during a ceasefire. That is what a ceasefire is for.
 
DeeJayH said:
wasn;t that actually British land? :confused:
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I guess the green part is the part where Palestinians (or Arabs...whatever their name was) used to live
 
DeeJayH said:
yeah, and do you think there is anything wrong with that

it is called 'breaking the will of the enemy'
or 'turning public opinion against the status quo'
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and how would you do that? because they'd fear more attacks?
 
DeeJayH said:
yeah, and do you think there is anything wrong with that

it is called 'breaking the will of the enemy'
or 'turning public opinion against the status quo'
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Assuming you belive the status quo is Hamas then these bombings arent going to turn public opinion against them. Historically its had the opossite effect [as is particually evident in southern Lebannon].

Incidently isnt the aproach your advocating a similar one to the tactics Slobodan Milosevic used against the KLA? I just find it intresting [and perhaps a little Orwellian] that you advocate Isreal takes the same course of action that we were flattening Serbia for little over a decade ago.
 
bub said:
and how would you do that? because they'd fear more attacks?
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just like it has been done in most previous wars throughout history
you pummel them into submission
you pummel them until they think maybe peace is better than this losing battle
 
Red_Dave said:
Assuming you belive the status quo is Hamas then these bombings arent going to turn public opinion against them. Historically its had the opossite effect [as is particually evident in southern Lebannon].

Incidently isnt the aproach your advocating a similar one to the tactics Slobodan Milosevic used against the KLA? I just find it intresting [and perhaps a little Orwellian] that you advocate Isreal takes the same course of action that we were flattening Serbia for little over a decade ago.
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did Slobodan attack only legitimate military targets?
 
bub said:
Yes, they don't target civilians, I know that

But don't you think taht the aim of the raid is to destroy buildings and kill some Hamas members, with the predictible but unwanted death of civilians, so that Palestinians understand that they should stop supporting Hamas if they want to stop the raids?
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DeeJayH said:
yeah, and do you think there is anything wrong with that

it is called 'breaking the will of the enemy'
or 'turning public opinion against the status quo'
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bub said:
and how would you do that? because they'd fear more attacks?
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DeeJayH said:
just like it has been done in most previous wars throughout history
you pummel them into submission
you pummel them until they think maybe peace is better than this losing battle
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that's funny, because that totally sounds like the definition of terrorism by the Britannica Online Encyclopedia:

use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.

:cool:
 
EgoffTib said:
Are you implying that Israel is only attacking legitimate military targets? :lol:

Scoop: Israeli Navy Attacking Civilian Mercy Ship
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a. they failed to identify
2. they were violating a blockade
c. McKinney is a ****ing idiot and this proves it more
4. the boat did not sink and nobody died

bub said:
that's funny, because that totally sounds like the definition of terrorism by the Britannica Online Encyclopedia:

use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.

:cool:
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well the definition i draw on has to do with intentionally targeting civilians
instead of the military
 
DeeJayH said:
a. they failed to identify
2. they were violating a blockade
c. McKinney is a ****ing idiot and this proves it more
4. the boat did not sink and nobody died
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So, did they or did they not attack a civilian target? I'm not saying it was not justified, just pointing out that you're wrong in assuming that they do not attack civilian targets.
 
EgoffTib said:
So, did they or did they not attack a civilian target? I'm not saying it was not justified, just pointing out that you're wrong in assuming that they do not attack civilian targets.
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that example of 'israel attacking civies' would equate to about you saying i kicked the everloving **** out of you by poking you with my finger once:roll:
 
DeeJayH said:
well the definition i draw on has to do with intentionally targeting civilians
instead of the military
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there are several definitions of terrorism, but the Encyclopedia Britannica does not talk about targeting civilians. Same for the FBI definition:

use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a Government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.
 
DeeJayH said:
that example of 'israel attacking civies' would equate to about you saying i kicked the everloving **** out of you by poking you with my finger once:roll:
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It was an attack on civilians. Plain and simple. You can make silly analogies until you are blue in the face, it is not helping your argument.
 
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