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Israeli air strikes target Gaza

Laila said:
Lmao, protesting =]
I don't think i'll be doing that for a few days
My body is killing me, you'd think the stupid little teens who are screaming abuse would realise that attempting to knock down the barriers doesn't equate the embassy suddenley blowing up :roll:

What a f*cked up photo, you should know i never cover my face! :p

But yeah, it was fun xD
The lone person with a peace flag lol
wa Alaykum As-Salaam love
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Now THIS is a violent protest. :D
YouTube - Protesters use flamethrowers against police
Now THAT is a riot!
 
ludahai said:
As for proportionality, that is 1. open to interpretation, and 2. the opinion of a limited number of scholars. There is nothing either written or in general state practice that confirms this.
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More on the matter of proportionality from Benjamin Netanyahu:

Netanyahu said that he believed the number of casualties should not "be the determinant of what is proportionate and who is in the right."

Israel's reaction has been criticised as disproportionate to Hamas' stream of rocket attacks on Israeli border communities. On that basis, Netanyahu said, Britain would have been in the wrong and Germany in the right during World War II.

Netanyahu stressed that Israel was in the right responding to the attacks.
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NDTV.com: Gaza militants continue to fire rockets at Israel
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bhkad said:
More on the matter of proportionality from Benjamin Netanyahu:
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The Blitz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Blitz was the sustained bombing of Britain by Nazi Germany between 7 September 1940 and 10 May 1941, in World War II. The name is a shortening of the German term, "Blitzkrieg", or "Lightning War". While the "Blitz" hit many towns and cities across the country, it began with the bombing of London for 57 consecutive nights .[1] By the end of May 1941, over 43,000 civilians, half of them in London, had been killed by bombing and more than a million houses destroyed or damaged in London alone.
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DiAnna said:
LOL! Wow, I cannot understand why the Israeli navy would pull out the stops to keep an unauthorized, uninspected vessel that won't respond to radio contact from breaking a blockade in the middle of a shooting war! Geez, it's not like it could have been bringing, you know, weapons and explosives to Hamas.

Unheard of!
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They can't even get their story straight.
Firedoglake » Why Israel Won’t Allow Journalists Into Gaza


Overnight, the Jerusalem Post carried a story titled Navy Sends Activist Boat Back to Cyprus which said:

The Navy has turned back a boat trying to carry pro-Palestinian protesters to the Gaza Strip, officials said Tuesday

Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said the boat ignored an Israeli radio order to turn back early Tuesday. He said the boat tried to outmaneuver the navy ship and crashed into it, lightly damaging both vessels. The navy then escorted the boat to the territorial waters of Cyprus.
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In a report from the AFP, Israeli authorities said is was all just a mistake:

Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor told AFP that the naval vessel tried to contact the aid boat by radio for identification and to inform it that it could not enter Gaza.

"After the boat did not answer the radio, it sharply veered and the two vessels collided, causing only light damage," Palmor said.

The Israeli spokesman accused the pro-Palestinian activists of "seeking provocation more than ever."
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But this time, a reporter, Karl Penhaul from CNN, was actually on the boat - and gave the report you see above as the events were happening:

... the boat while still in international waters has been rammed by Israeli patrol boats, our vessel has been damaged ...there's been some damage to a roof section and to glass windows around the steering area and the captain says that the vessel is taking on a small amount of water, that at this stage is not life threatening but the ship was very severely rammed by one of those Israeli patrol boats, those patrol boats have been following the vessel for the half hour prior to the ramming incident ... they rammed the vessel without warning but after the ramming there was a radio message saying the Israeli patrol boat was accusing the Dignity of being involved in terrorist activities.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE4BT4R820081230Digg [/url]
U.S. man pleads guilty to acting as agent for Israel
NEW YORK/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An 85-year-old former U.S. Army employee pleaded guilty on Tuesday to acting as an unregistered agent of Israel and admitted he gave classified documents to the Jewish state in the 1980s.

Court documents show the defendant, Ben-Ami Kadish, reported to the same handler as Jonathan Pollard, an American who spied for Israel in the 1980s and triggered a scandal that rocked U.S.-Israeli relations.
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dirtpoorchris said:
The Blitz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Netanyahu didn't specify the Blitz. He said WWII.

He might have been speaking of the V-1 Buzz Bombs (or the V-2's) which were unguided flying bombs launched on innocent populations by the Nazis "between 13 June 1944 and 29 March 1945."

Almost 30,000 V-1s were made. Approximately 10,000 were fired at England; 2,419 reached London, killing about 6,184 people and injuring 17,981.[7] The greatest density of hits were received by Croydon, on the SE fringe of London.

V-1 flying bomb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Compare that to the German losses in the Battle for Berlin April - May 1945.
(Note that this battle was between the Germans and the Soviet forces.)

Initial Soviet estimate
(operational total)
458,080 killed,
479,298 captured[8]
Total casualties 937,378 men
Inside Berlin Defence Area:
22,000 civilian dead,
about 22,000 military dead[9]

Battle of Berlin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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shiznit770 said:
I never said it would be easy, but I know it would never happen. Palestinians would never relocate and Israel would never concede any more land.
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Your proposal would either force Israel to split into two parts OR deny ISrael access to the Gulf of Eilat. Either solution is unacceptable.
 
ludahai said:
Your proposal would either force Israel to split into two parts OR deny ISrael access to the Gulf of Eilat. Either solution is unacceptable.
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Why unacceptable to give both sides half the land?
 
So it shouldn't occur just because Israel needs it
Nah, go back to the 1948 proposal. The Arabs were foolish in ever rejecting it
 
Laila said:
So it shouldn't occur just because Israel needs it
Nah, go back to the 1948 proposal. The Arabs were foolish in ever rejecting it
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Nope. Arabs gambled and lost. 1967 borders. Anything less would not provide sufficient security or access to the sea for ISrael. Arabs should have accepted in 1948. You are right, they were foolish in rejecting. That is now gone. The best they will EVER get is the 1967 borders.
 
Never is a long time. Don't be too sure where the conflict and the Arab countries will be in decades to come.
I can just imagine, me with grandchildren and still watching the conflict on BBC. What a depressing thought
 
Laila said:
Never is a long time. Don't be too sure where the conflict and the Arab countries will be in decades to come.
I can just imagine, me with grandchildren and still watching the conflict on BBC. What a depressing thought
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It IS a depressing thought, but unless the Arabs can accept that Israel has the right to live in peace within the 1949-1967 borders, it will become a sad reality.
 
ludahai said:
It IS a depressing thought, but unless the Arabs can accept that Israel has the right to live in peace within the 1949-1967 borders, it will become a sad reality.
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You see, i don't see the problem with that.
But there is decades old hurt on both sides which is preventing it
 
Laila said:
You see, i don't see the problem with that.
But there is decades old hurt on both sides which is preventing it
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Didn't you initially support the 1948 borders?

I think Israel will accept MOST of the pre-67 borders (East Jerusalem would be the main sticking point) but the Palestinians said NO.
 
Arabs said no.

Neither Israelis or Palestinians should control Jerusalem tbh.
They're bloody whining and bitching has led me to only 2 conclusions.
1. Give it to the Christians, the only side not bitching.
2. Give it to I Community to protect e.g. NATO, UN

I support the borders, i'd rather Israel withdraws back to it
 
I believe that Isreal should respect the borders of the original nation of Palestine.
 
Ummm, thats right. There never was a nation of Palestine. Ok, they should respect those borders.
 
Laila said:
Arabs said no.

Neither Israelis or Palestinians should control Jerusalem tbh.
They're bloody whining and bitching has led me to only 2 conclusions.
1. Give it to the Christians, the only side not bitching.
2. Give it to I Community to protect e.g. NATO, UN

I support the borders, i'd rather Israel withdraws back to it
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Not speaking of you directly, but one of the problems with the situation is that new people become interested in the conflict all the time and are often unaware of what has gone on in the past.

Israel has given up land continuously in every attempt at negotiation and each time they get nothing in return from the Palestinian side. If it was up to the Palestinians the Israelis would give up an inch, foot, yard, acre, mile at a time until there was no more to give. Only then would they be satisfied.

I'd say the Israelis have given up enough land.

Peace will come to the Middle East when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us.

---Golda Meir
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Can't say im surprised you take that position.

In other news of the day:
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Shockwaves as rockets hit Beersheba

The rockets that landed on the Negev desert city of Beersheba sent shockwaves across Israel - not for the damage they caused but for the mere fact that Hamas could reach that far - more than 46 km (28 miles) from the Gaza Strip.

With the cities of Ashdod, Ashkelon and Beersheba now within the proven range of missiles from Gaza, as much as 10% of Israel's population is under threat.
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Hamas can reach that far? WTF. They have been storing up rockets haven't they :/

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | UN holds Gaza crisis discussion

The UN Security Council is meeting to discuss the crisis in the Gaza Strip as international calls grow for a halt to the Israeli-Palestinian violence.

France's President Sarkozy also said he would visit the region in a bid to end the crisis, which has seen five days of Israeli raids and Hamas rocket fire.

Earlier, Israeli PM Ehud Olmert rejected calls for a 48-hour truce to allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has threatened to pull out of peace talks.

He called the Israeli bombardment of Gaza "barbaric and criminal aggression" and said he "would not hesitate to stop" peace talks with the Israelis "if they go against our interests and offer a support to aggression".
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bhkad said:
I'd say the Israelis have given up enough land.
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Yes, Israel Military pulled out of Gaza yet it controls the air, sea and movements within Gaza ...

Doesn't sound like pulling out to me. Just another form of control
 
Laila said:
Yes, Israel Military pulled out of Gaza yet it controls the air, sea and movements within Gaza ...

Doesn't sound like pulling out to me. Just another form of control
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Like it or not Gaza and the West Bank are still part of Israel.

But as soon as the Palestinians agree to stop trying to kill Israelis they can get their own nation.

Seems unreasonable, huh?

:roll:
 
Laila said:
Yes, Israel Military pulled out of Gaza yet it controls the air, sea and movements within Gaza ...

Doesn't sound like pulling out to me. Just another form of control
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Maybe if the area wasn't controlled by murderers they wouldn't have too? Just a crazy thought for ya.
 
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