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Israeli air strikes target Gaza

bhkad said:
From the Hamas Covenant:
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Oh come on now... you can't thnk they REALLY mean that.
I mean, its not like they send explosive-laden kids to take out Israel schoolbusses or anything.
 
Slainte said:
The blockade is an Israeli initiative, it was designed by Israel and is controlled by Israel. That the Egyptian government has cooperated to enforce it, completely against the will of its population and largely because of American pressure, is regretable.

Whilst there has been some sporadic violence on the Egyptian border, while control of the blockade remains so strongly in Israel's hands and Israel remains, as the occupying power under international law the party responsible for Gaza, it simply wouldn't be logical to launch any attacks on Egypt.
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From the Hamas Covenant:

Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:

----------------------------------------------

'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle

[against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The

Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar

agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle.

...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason,

and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32)
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THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS
 
Goobieman said:
Oh come on now... you can't thnk they REALLY mean that.
I mean, its not like they send explosive-laden kids to take out Israel schoolbusses or anything.
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That reminds me of Sarah Jessica Parker & Pierce Brosnan in "Mars Attacks!"

They think the Martians are friendly.
 
bhkad said:
That reminds me of Sarah Jessica Parker & Pierce Brosnan in "Mars Attacks!"
They think the Martians are friendly.
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I guess, so long as you claim your oppressors have forced you to do so, some people think you can justify ANY act.
 
Goobieman said:
Wow.
In your desire to blame Israel, you cant even admit that it is NOT just an Israeli blockade.
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While Egypt cooperates with the blockade, that it is an Israeli initiative and that the level of its severity is controlled by Israel cannot be doubted.

For example when the Rafah crossing was breached last January it was Israel and not Egypt who moved swiftly to ensure it was resealed. Fuel, medicine and electricity are all controlled by Israel, Gaza was of course virtually annexed by Israel for over 30 years, during that time very little of Gaza's resources came from Egypt. A few years later that is unsurprisingly still the case.

Goobieman said:
If you are right, where are the Hamas rocket attacks on Egypt?
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Hamas have been very clear as to their reasons for ending the cease-fire, although it may be scarcely reported in the American media it is widely available elsewhere. That anyone would choose to believe they woke up randomly one morning and decided to break their cease fire with one of the most advanced military's on the planet, merely reflects how easily manipulated some segments of the American public are.
 
Slainte said:
While Egypt cooperates with the blockade, that it is an Israeli initiative and that the level of its severity is controlled by Israel cannot be doubted.
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I love how you try to dismiss the Egypian participation as incidental.
Israel cannot force Egypt to blockade Gaza, and Israel cannot affect the severity of the Egyptian side of the blocakde; if Egypt were to choose to end the blockade on Gaza, the humanitarian crisis you so happily whine about would not exist.

For example when the Rafah crossing was breached last January it was Israel and not Egypt who moved swiftly to ensure it was resealed
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Tell me:
How does Israel seal a border crossing between Gaza and Egypt?

Hamas have been very clear as to their reasons for ending the cease-fire
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According to you, it is the blockade.

And so, I ask again:
Where are the rocket attacks on Egypt?
 
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Slainte said:
For example when the Rafah crossing was breached last January it was Israel and not Egypt who moved swiftly to ensure it was resealed.
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That's very odd. No one else saw it that way...

Egyptians seal border with Gaza
By Karin Laub, Associated Press Writer
Monday, 4 February 2008

Gaza's 1.5 million Palestinians were trapped behind their closed borders again after tasting freedom for 12 days, when Egyptian forces sealed the last of the breaks in the Gaza-Egypt barrier broken down by Hamas militants.

Egypt warned Hamas against trying to open the border by force again, as it did on Jan. 23. "Egypt is a respected state. Its border cannot be breached and its soldiers should not be lobbed with stones," said Suleiman Awwad, spokesman for Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.
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Source: Independent UK
 
PeteEU said:
Both sides are idiots and have people in power that do not want peace.

Israel keeps building illegal settlements and oppresses the native Palestinians on so many fronts..

Palestinian radicals retaliate by lob rockets that could not hit the broadside of a barn or suicide bombers or what not

Israel fires back killing hundreds in the most densely populated place on earth.

Palestinian radicals retaliate again

Israel retaliates..

the cycle of stupidity continues... only ones getting anything out of this are the people in power and the weapons manufactures.
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Another profound statement made in a vacuum secure from the facts; last time I looked, Israel in an effort to promote peace, cleared all their settlements from the Gaza strip and unilaterally handed it over to the Palestinians.

To show their peaceful intentions, the Palestinians tore down any building inhabited by Jews and started firing rockets into Israel. They signed a cease fire in which they continually defied it, and then when all the chips were down, they decided to NOT renew the cease fire and started indiscriminately firing missiles at innocent civilians.

Israel, as I see it, is desperate for peace but also desperate for some form of security which that vaunted organization the United Nations refuses to provide. You will never see peace as long as terrorist organizations like Hammas have a say in the process. Peace does not serve their despicable purpose of attempting to play the victim card forever to get donations and money, and commit atrocities with the intent of destroying the Israeli State.

Peace can be had tomorrow if the Palestinian people truly wanted it. Unfortunately, and thanks to their own profound ignorance, they do not seek peace and prefer to engage in the same tired old despicable tactics of indiscriminate killing of Jews and Westerners in their Jihad of ignorance.

One can only wonder how anyone who has a high school education can defend the atrocities of the Palestinian terrorists and attempt to point the finger at Israel; a tiny strip of land smaller than Rhode Island surrounded by a vast area controlled by Arabs.

Carry on; denial leads to ignorance, don't do denial. :2wave:
 
Slainte said:
While Egypt cooperates with the blockade, that it is an Israeli initiative and that the level of its severity is controlled by Israel cannot be doubted.

For example when the Rafah crossing was breached last January it was Israel and not Egypt who moved swiftly to ensure it was resealed. Fuel, medicine and electricity are all controlled by Israel, Gaza was of course virtually annexed by Israel for over 30 years, during that time very little of Gaza's resources came from Egypt. A few years later that is unsurprisingly still the case.



Hamas have been very clear as to their reasons for ending the cease-fire, although it may be scarcely reported in the American media it is widely available elsewhere. That anyone would choose to believe they woke up randomly one morning and decided to break their cease fire with one of the most advanced military's on the planet, merely reflects how easily manipulated some segments of the American public are.
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And why did Israel enact a blockade in the first place?

And why were the Palestinians attacking Israel?

Repeat 1000000000 times.

But what would stop the cycle of violence?

If the Palestinians recognized Israel's right to exist in peace.

Then it all stops.

Otherwise it keeps going.

And if the Palestinians keep getting the worst of these exchanges maybe they will one day wish to stop the violence.

But by now that has become more difficult because the Palestinians have grown to be like bloodied, punch drunk Jake LaMotta-esque boxers who love the blood and are numbed by the pain and in order to beat them you must almost completely kill them.

But as I've said before, I believe this is a twin gambit.

The other is Iran.
 
bhkad said:
And why did Israel enact a blockade in the first place?
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Better questions:
-Why does Egypt blockade Gaza with the same 'degree of severity' as Israel?
-Why, if the blockade is the reason for the rocket attacks, are there no rocket attacks on Egypt?
 
bhkad said:
And why did Israel enact a blockade in the first place?

And why were the Palestinians attacking Israel?

Repeat 1000000000 times.

But what would stop the cycle of violence?

If the Palestinians recognized Israel's right to exist in peace.

Then it all stops.

Otherwise it keeps going.

And if the Palestinians keep getting the worst of these exchanges maybe they will one day wish to stop the violence.

But by now that has become more difficult because the Palestinians have grown to be like bloodied, punch drunk Jake LaMotta-esque boxers who love the blood and are numbed by the pain and in order to beat them you must almost completely kill them.

But as I've said before, I believe this is a twin gambit.

The other is Iran.
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If Iran gets into the conflict directly, Iran will suffer an attack far worse than the bombing of Gaza.

... From TWO seperate nations.

The mullah terrorists are aware of this.
 
Goobieman said:
Better questions:
-Why does Egypt blockade Gaza with the same 'degree of severity' as Israel?
-Why, if the blockade is the reason for the rocket attacks, are there no rocket attacks on Egypt?
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Because it's not about the blockade. That is a charade for propaganda purposes. It's only about the destruction of Israel. No more. No less.
 
Tashah said:
Because it's not about the blockade. That is a charade for propaganda purposes. It's only about the destruction of Israel. No more. No less.
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Of course.
 
Vader said:
If Iran gets into the conflict directly, Iran will suffer an attack far worse than the bombing of Gaza.

... From TWO seperate nations.

The mullah terrorists are aware of this.
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And that is why Israel can continue this to the "bitter end."

And IMO that is what the West hopes might bring Iran into it so that a war will allow us to destroy Iran's nuclear weapons capabilities without triggering a Holy War.

We can't attack Iran first so we must get them to attack Israel.
 
Tashah said:
That's very odd. No one else saw it that way...


Source: Independent UK
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The fact that it took 12 days to reseal is the first indication that Egypt was reluctant to act, during that time there were various Israeli airstrikes near the crossing as well as massive American pressure, spurred on of course by the Israeli lobby to reseal the border.
 
Slainte said:
The fact that it took 12 days to reseal is the first indication that Egypt was reluctant to act...
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I'm sorry -- didnt you just say:

For example when the Rafah crossing was breached last January it was Israel and not Egypt who moved swiftly to ensure it was resealed
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Seems to me you cannot decide what 'facts' best fit your argument.

Now, an honest person would admit that this means your position is untenable, but you go ahead and do what you think is best.

And, while you;re at it, maybe you can asnwer these questions:
-Why does Egypt blockade Gaza with the same 'degree of severity' as Israel?
-Why, if the blockade is the reason for the rocket attacks, are there no rocket attacks on Egypt?
 
Tashah said:
Because it's not about the blockade. That is a charade for propaganda purposes. It's only about the destruction of Israel. No more. No less.
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This current conflict is obviously over the blockade, to claim it is random is quite frankly moronic.

The blockade and all the violence surrounding it however are undoubtedly symptoms of the larger issue. Namely Israel, its creation, its place in the region and the future composition of the holy land. So to some extent you are correct.
 
SquareMelon said:
If this is not hate speech and a call for ethnic cleansing SqtRock, I do not know what is?
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I see no other solution. Can you tell the difference between a member of Hamas dressed in civilian cloths and a civilian? If the Palestinians elected Hamas into power and Hamas breaks ceasefires by attacking Israel what can be done to stop this. Israel is not going to lift the blockade, why should they, it will be used to resupply Hamas with weapons. Israel releases prisoners as a gester of good will and what do the get in return, more rockets.

Do you have a solution to this short of fulfilling the Hamas goal of killing all Israelis? Hamas could have avoided all of this by simply ending there attacks on Israel, its that simple. So if Israel is going to end this once and for all send the Palestinians to there homeland in Jordan and kill anyone who resists. Sounds pretty cold dosn't it? Well it is, War is hell. Hamas asked for war and Israel is giving it to them.

Death to Hamas!!!!
 
Slainte said:
This current conflict is obviously over the blockade, to claim it is random is quite frankly moronic.
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1: That is only clear to those that do not want to admit the truth
2: No one has said the attacks on Israel were random or undertaken on a whim

The blockade and all the violence surrounding it however are undoubtedly symptoms of the larger issue. Namely Israel, its creation, its place in the region and the future composition of the holy land
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Oh, damn that Irarael, for having the audacity to exist and act as if it would like to continue in that condition!
 
Goobieman said:
I'm sorry -- didnt you just say:



Seems to me you cannot decide what 'facts' best fit your argument.

Now, an honest person would admit that this means your position is untenable, but you go ahead and do what you think is best.
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As Egypt failed to act to reseal the border due to massive popular pressure from its population it was Israel who began heavily pressurising the USA into forcing Egypts hand. As well as taking dirct action with airstrikes.

My point however, is that this blockade is of Israeli design, Egypt is of course complicit in its implemenation, something I have not denied. However the level of severity, and the power to end it in rests in Israeli hands. Most vital supplies don't go through Egypt as i have already stated, as the land officially remains under Israeli jurisdiction Gaza is Israel's responsibility, not Egypts, thus Egypt acts as the junior partner in it all, not something I, nor many Egyptians approve of.
 
Slainte said:
as the land officially remains under Israeli jurisdiction Gaza is Israel's responsibility, not Egypts, thus Egypt acts as the junior partner in it all, not something I, nor many Egyptians approve of.
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Another inaccuracy. Israel withdrew from Gaza completely. Israel does not administer Gaza in any capacity. Gaza is the responsibility of its elected government... Hamas. Gaza is governed totally and exclusively by Hamas.
 
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Goobieman said:
Oh, damn that Irarael, for having the audacity to exist and act as if it would like to continue in that condition!
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There are very serious questions about the legitimacy and need for a Zionist state in the 21st century. To demand all such question be removed from the table before negotiations start is unreasonable to the Palestinians.

Hamas has stated repeatedly it is willing to acknoweldge Israel as a reality and work from there. Demanding that they accept the legitimacy of Israel, when most Palestinians obviously do not, is a recipe for another failed peace process.
 
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Tashah said:
Another inaccuracy. Israel withdrew from Gaza completely. Israel does not administer Gaza in any capacity. Gaza is the responsibility of its elected government... Hamas. Gaza is governed totally and exclusively by Hamas.
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Not under standard interpretations of international law as Israel refuses to relinquish controll over Gaza's borders, airspace or seaspace. Something I'm sure I've been over with you before!
 
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