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Israeli air strikes target Gaza

dirtpoorchris said:
So set up an automatic return fire system that only kills whoever fires a gun or rocket everywhere... I think after the first time one would get tired of firing on Israeli locations just to get a bullet or missle sent in their exact location.
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Give me a &^%&A# break. Does the technology exist for that? Even if it did, it would to nothing to address the infrastructure that supports those attacks.
 
ludahai said:
Give me a &^%&A# break. Does the technology exist for that? Even if it did, it would to nothing to address the infrastructure that supports those attacks.
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We already have technology that can pinpoint an exact gunshot... We have sentry gun technology that is more accurate than humans... All you need to do is combine them. Add in a rocket interceptor that already has a 100% success rate and you shield yourself from all attacks AND take out the aggressor. After a week I garentee you not a single person would chose to attempt to kill the same way.

We share our militairy secrets with Israel alot and so do they to us.
It is not far fetched what so ever.

I would enjoy further talks on what you would think The son of God born in a human body would condone. Unless you dont want to.
 
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bub said:
Indeed, Hamas seems to have started using violence, and I condemn them as much as you do. However, the behavior of Israel (blocus + illegal settlements + annexion of Palestinian land with the security fence + numerous Palestinian civilians killed as "collateral damage" + destruction of houses etc...) is partly responsible for the war too, as it provokes the Hamas.

Furthermore, the reaction of Israel won't bring any solution: Hamas calls for a new intifada. Violence won't solve anything, Barak should have learnt that, after 60 years of conflict.
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What do you suggest the Israeli leaders do. Attempts at peace talks have never worked. Ceasefires always are violated or violence resumes after they expire. The only solution that would be acceptable to Hamas is if Israelis packed up and left Israel, the land that was promissed them by god.
 
SgtRock said:
What do you suggest the Israeli leaders do. Attempts at peace talks have never worked. Ceasefires always are violated or violence resumes after they expire. The only solution that would be acceptable to Hamas is if Israelis packed up and left Israel, the land that was promissed them by god.
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Uhhh.. I dont think they are supposed to have a place to live until the messiah comes. :2razz: So if you wanna use religion they should get out.
 
Laila said:
Ahh we get into the 'Israel is democratic and therefore all perfect and peace loving where on the other hand we have a non democratic entity which is agressive'

UK and US is democratic but have some blood filled history that is still going on.
Democracy means diddly squat to me when making a moral decision.

At least one good thing is coming from this, Arabs are united in condemnation. We all know how rare that
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And what prithee, do you use as criteria when making moral judgments?

Apparently, not punctuation or sentence structure.

But that aside, you sound like one of the poor unfortunates that believe that war and bloodshed are the greatest of evils.

This is a deluded view only possible for the sheltered souls who have never encountered true, intractable, and unrestrained malice. People who have, come to see that a greater evil than war is failure to recognize, condemn and oppose such maleficence.

Declaring that all sides are equally guilty because none are perfect is a sort of moralistic fornication.
 
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Attempting to blame either side for starting anything is a pointless endeavor that quickly results in another unnecessary recitation of the history of the conflict.

In regards to the current situation, Israel has enforced a strict military blockade on Gaza for over a year, this blockade, according to many Palestinian officials is bringing Gaza dangerously close to a humanitarian crisis. Hamas recently refused to renew a cease fire agreement it has had with Israel for the past 6 months due to Israeli refusal to loosen this blockade. The termination of the cease fire by Hamas spurred this massive new operation by Israel.

Maybe some of those so desperate to claim Israeli innocence in all this should note that the last time any Arab states declared a military blockade of Israel, Israel used it as a pre-text to rout 3 Arab armies and annex an area of land 3 times her own size!

Of course I’m sure Israel could claim her blockade was justified based on prior Palestinian actions, the Palestinians would however claim those actions were justified based on past Israeli actions and so on and so forth. Very quickly we’d be discussing 1967 or 1948.

The most important thing right now is for both sides to agree a new cease fire so that a humanitarian crisis in Gaza can be avoided and the people of Southern Israel can live in security.
 
Slainte said:
Attempting to blame either side for starting anything is a pointless endeavor that quickly results in another unnecessary recitation of the history of the conflict.

In regards to the current situation, Israel has enforced a strict military blockade on Gaza for over a year, this blockade, according to many Palestinian officials is bringing Gaza dangerously close to a humanitarian crisis. Hamas recently refused to renew a cease fire agreement it has had with Israel for the past 6 months due to Israeli refusal to loosen this blockade. The termination of the cease fire by Hamas spurred this massive new operation by Israel.

Maybe some of those so desperate to claim Israeli innocence in all this should note that the last time any Arab states declared a military blockade of Israel, Israel used it as a pre-text to rout 3 Arab armies and annex an area of land 3 times her own size!

Of course I’m sure Israel could claim her blockade was justified based on prior Palestinian actions, the Palestinians would however claim those actions were justified based on past Israeli actions and so on and so forth. Very quickly we’d be discussing 1967 or 1948.

The most important thing right now is for both sides to agree a new cease fire so that a humanitarian crisis in Gaza can be avoided and the people of Southern Israel can live in security.
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What you are saying makes sense. A new ceasefire that is. However lifting the blockade will result in shipments of weapons that are much more destructive than kassam rockets. Israel cannot allow this. I think that the Israelis will have to be allowed to inspect any and all aid shipments destin for the Palestinian territories.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
I ask you to never defend me. Physically at least. For in chains or even the face of death ill say what I want. Freedom is a choice.
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You have a rather odd view of reality.

But why stop with me? If you do not wish to be physically defended by anyone, you'd have to leave civilized nations entirely, even the marginally so.

Without that, you are being defended with force and at least the possibility of murderous violence by someone.

We really should think of a way for you free yourself of your tainted heritage too, that is everything which is forced upon you that was won by force. Of course that would include your education health, and life. But there must be some way to give up these soiled and corrupt things short of death.

Then you could "choose freedom!" Of course, no one would have taught you what that was, you'd be a slave at best and would be very unlikely to have any meaningful way whatsoever to express that abstract freedom, including in your thoughts, as you would be too primitive to engage in much free cognizance.

No, it is probably the safer course for you to remain as you are, and cast aspersions on the Worthies who have and do take up the burden of providing a context for you to engage in hollow, self aggrandizing pontification on the nature of freedoms that you do not accept the cost of.
 
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dirtpoorchris,

Has Israel not turned the other cheek for too long? Has Israel not tolerated continuous attacks on civilian targets? Yes, we have. We have been doing it for the last 8 years. The time has come to fight back.

What you're suggesting has been done before. Israel used to respond to each rocket launch individually by launching precise artillery fire back. Needless to say, it was effective only during a very short period. Now, the terrorists don't physically launch the rockets. They place and ready them, punch in a nice and long timer, and run as far as they can. Now that is true bravery and commitment to your people.

As for the rocket interceptors - you have to remember these are very simple rockets, which is what makes them so powerful. They're not easy to destroy using conventional methods. Some new methods are being developed now (several using laser technology), but there's no guarantee they're work on these short distances - and besides, they're not ready yet or in the foreseeable future. And that is without speaking of the time and costs of installing this complex system so that everybody is protected.

Currently, the only protection that's being offered is a siren. If you've even been to the area, you know that there are several balloons flying above. Inside lies an automatic system which detects rocket launches and gives a warning of about 15 seconds to the residents of Sderot, which is really not much.

So, in essence, what do you suggest Israel does to solve this problem?
 
SgtRock said:
What you are saying makes sense. A new ceasefire that is. However lifting the blockade will result in shipments of weapons that are much more destructive than kassam rockets. Israel cannot allow this. I think that the Israelis will have to be allowed to inspect any and all aid shipments destin for the Palestinian territories.
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In the short term, I'd have no problem with this, neither would most Palestinians. There will however come a time when Israel is going to have trust the Palestinians real control over their borders.

More importantly Gaza must be allowed to export goods, alleviating poverty, reducing unemployment and giving hope for the future to the kids in Gaza is far more important to Israel's security than stopping a few home made rockets.
 
bub said:
Are you blind? I answered you that there were many other illegal settlements, and that they provoke the Palestinians, among with other reasons I've cited above in this post
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Israel showed good will by dismantling the settlements in Gaza. Hamas responded with more attacks. Israel has tried to show that it is committed to peace. Time for some positive response from the Palestinians. I favor a phased withdrawal from the West Bank, but each phase must also be met with Palestinian acknowledgement of Israel's legitimate rights, NOT by increased calls for its destruction.
 
Tal said:
dirtpoorchris,

Has Israel not turned the other cheek for too long? Has Israel not tolerated continuous attacks on civilian targets? Yes, we have. We have been doing it for the last 8 years. The time has come to fight back.

What you're suggesting has been done before. Israel used to respond to each rocket launch individually by launching precise artillery fire back. Needless to say, it was effective only during a very short period. Now, the terrorists don't physically launch the rockets. They place and ready them, punch in a nice and long timer, and run as far as they can. Now that is true bravery and commitment to your people.

As for the rocket interceptors - you have to remember these are very simple rockets, which is what makes them so powerful. They're not easy to destroy using conventional methods. Some new methods are being developed now (several using laser technology), but there's no guarantee they're work on these short distances - and besides, they're not ready yet or in the foreseeable future. And that is without speaking of the time and costs of installing this complex system so that everybody is protected.

Currently, the only protection that's being offered is a siren. If you've even been to the area, you know that there are several balloons flying above. Inside lies an automatic system which detects rocket launches and gives a warning of about 15 seconds to the residents of Sderot, which is really not much.

So, in essence, what do you suggest Israel does to solve this problem?
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Pick a date. Instead of dropping bombs drop leaflets that refer to the date. Say "On this date we want to try something new. For every one of you that comes to shake our hand. We will meet you to shake yours." Then just sit and wait and meet them on a line.

Repeat over and over no matter what any tv says you should do.


When a Israeli boat lights up a picnic going on at a beach maybe hold the soldier accountable seeing as it is a government funded entity. Show that you refine yourself also.

Im sure videos all around youtube of Israeli soldiers taking turns slapping the **** outa civilians once they are detained and soldiers letting a dog attack a chubby, elderly lady couldn't help either.

I don't know. I am pretty steamed out argueing for a few hours and maybe could think of better responses later.

I thank you for your knowledge.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Ok tell me what I am lacking and not understanding in then and we can hash this out.

I could see if maybe all of the arabs decided to overrun Israel, when Israel had done no wrong, then maybe God would call upon a prophet to take a staff up in his name so that God's soldier would not die in defense. And in turning showing people absolute truth and creating a closeness to God for those who never had one.
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I am not saying Israel has done no wrong. I have never said that. However, in this case, Israel is responding to its legitimate security needs. Hamas has been raining rockets over Southern Israel with impunity since they violated the cease fire. Israel has warned them several times to stop. Do you expect them to simply sit there and let Hamas keep taking pot shots at them?

Question: Do you think the US invasion of Afghanistan was wrong? Legally? Morally?
 
bub said:
Gaza people are Palestinian too. I guess they are kinda angry to be enclosed there while Israeli people settle on their lands on the other side of the fence
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Are you going to continue to deny that Israel has shown good will by dismantling the settlements in Gaza while all the Palestinians have done is step up their offensive against Israel?
 
dirtpoorchris said:
We already have technology that can pinpoint an exact gunshot... We have sentry gun technology that is more accurate than humans... All you need to do is combine them. Add in a rocket interceptor that already has a 100% success rate and you shield yourself from all attacks AND take out the aggressor. After a week I garentee you not a single person would chose to attempt to kill the same way.

We share our militairy secrets with Israel alot and so do they to us.
It is not far fetched what so ever.

I would enjoy further talks on what you would think The son of God born in a human body would condone. Unless you dont want to.
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A gun shot is a short range weapon. Rockets are intermediate range. Also, by the time a shot was made at the LOCATION the rocket came from (even if it could be accurately determined, which it can't due to the unstable trajectory of the rockets) the terrorists who launched them aren't exactly going to be waiting around for very long.
 
ludahai said:
I am not saying Israel has done no wrong. I have never said that. However, in this case, Israel is responding to its legitimate security needs. Hamas has been raining rockets over Southern Israel with impunity since they violated the cease fire. Israel has warned them several times to stop. Do you expect them to simply sit there and let Hamas keep taking pot shots at them?
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No. But I dont expect them to slaughter.

ludahai said:
Question: Do you think the US invasion of Afghanistan was wrong? Legally? Morally?
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Wrong? Yes. Legally? Depends on who you are talking to. Morally? I feel so.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Pick a date. Instead of dropping bombs drop leaflets that refer to the date. Say "On this date we want to try something new. For every one of you that comes to shake our hand. We will meet you to shake yours." Then just sit and wait and meet them on a line.

Repeat over and over no matter what any tv says you should do.


When a Israeli boat lights up a picnic going on at a beach maybe hold the soldier accountable seeing as it is a government funded entity. Show that you refine yourself also.

Im sure videos all around youtube of Israeli soldiers taking turns slapping the **** outa civilians once they are detained and soldiers letting a dog attack a chubby, elderly lady couldn't help either.

I don't know. I am pretty steamed out argueing for a few hours and maybe could think of better responses later.

I thank you for your knowledge.
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First off, if you're talking about the Paliwood videos on YouTube... Please, spare me. True, there were occurrences of Israeli soldiers hurting Palestinians - but they are not common, and sadly are a part of the wholly uncomfortable procedure called war. It is unfortunate that some soldiers are scum. They are that percentage of the population which is generally referred to as scum. There is nothing you can do about it.

The rest of the videos are often staged to make a point. The most famous of which was the Muhammad Al Durah incident which sparked the second Intifada. I watched an excellent documentary on that on YouTube, but I just can't seem to find it. It showed exactly how that video was staged and based it on interviews and computer renderings.

And your proposal is again, very sweet and appealing on paper. But in the real, non-armchair world, these sorts of things don't work. Of course, on the personal level you might shake a few hands. I myself have gotten to know some Palestinians and found them to be pleasant and peace-loving people. But the question is - will this handshake really solve the problems? Of course many civilians want peace with Israel, but some don't. And most importantly, their government doesn't let them to. They brought it about.
 
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