Israeli air strikes target Gaza

lynnb said:

Really? so you're going to sympathise with murderers that sent rockets every day at innocent israeli kids every day? So yeah, any person killed is sad, but Israel is now in a protective mode, because it can't live like this any more.

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Seeing that it is civilians that is reported dead not militants.
Are you now equating Palestinian civilians to murderers who sent rockets?

I suggest re writing that paragraph and maybe you'll get a decent response

lynnb said:

Really? so you're going to sympathise with murderers that sent rockets every day at innocent israeli kids every day? So yeah, any person killed is sad, but Israel is now in a protective mode, because it can't live like this any more.

Let me give a little background: For approximately 8 years cities like Sederot and Ashkelon has been absorbing agressive fire from Hamas soldiers. There has been times of calming, but these were always broken by hamas activists. As of now, their rockets are starting to improve and reach longer distances, endangering more citizens. About a week ago, Hamas sent over 80 rockets in one day at Sederot.

Currently, I am considered in the hamas' fire zone. Every time I go outside I look for supportive walls in case of rockets dropping at me.

So sure, right now only one person died in israel. But wait a few days, see how many will die, how many rockets will be sent at Israel and possibly suicide bombers enter Israel.

Besides, unlike Hamas, the Israeli military tries its best to not harm civilians. I assure you that most of the palestinians who died are hamas soldiers that work every day on planning how to inflict terror on innocent israeli citizens.


So maybe before you sympathise, try and learn some relevant history.

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May God continue to bless and protect you.

Welcome to Debate Politics. Your first post is a fine one.

:2wave:

bhkad said:

If Hamas had the ability to more precisely target their rockets to kill more Israelis, they would.

They deserve credit for nothing and do not deserve your bonhomie.

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True but Hamas doesn't have such technology and hopefully will never get its hand on it.

Laila said:

Yet it seems that despite all the rockets Hamas chuck. Not many Israelis die.

When Israel seems to do the 'retaliating' the figures goes into double digits

Do you not see a problem there?

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I see that Israel was releasing prisoners in good faith. I see Israel giving concessions. I see Israel trying to live in peace. And I see Palestinians with blood and hatred in there eyes and hearts taunting Israel. Attempting to draw Israel into a battle that the Palestinians know they can not win. Well they succeeded. And people died and the world will condemn Israel.

Do you think that if Hamas had the weapons that could kill more israelis they wouldn't use them. Killing hundreds of Israelis. Israel has no choice but to defend itsself.

Laila said:

True but Hamas doesn't have such technology and hopefully will never get its hand on it.

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You seem to believe there is no point in expecting Hamas to change. That dovetails with my belief.

SgtRock said:

Do you think that if Hamas had the weapons that could kill more israelis they wouldn't use them. Killing hundreds of Israelis. Israel has no choice but to defend itsself.

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Where does hundreds of Israelis dead come from? Where are you getting that figure?

I think Hamas has suceeded in making Israel to make itself out as the 'bad' people in this raid.

bhkad said:

You seem to believe there is no point in expecting Hamas to change. That dovetails with my belief.

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I don't know, i remember Hamas when it won the elections. It seemed open to talks but what shuned by I Community. Maybe it can get back to that

Or perhaps both Fatah and Hamas need to be disappear but for those parties to be gone, the need for those groups has to be resolved which means actually sorting out the conflict.

Laila said:

195 reported dead civilians on Palestinians side.
1 on Israel's side

I know where my sympathy lies ...

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First of all , Laila , Palestine was warned out .
Israel told them that if they will attack us we will attack back .
What you see in tv isnt real israel only hurts hamas people they dont have interest in innocent people, but palestine does, they attack us 24\7 for like 10 years with no response from israel, believe me that if israel wants to attack palestine they will our forces are much stronger that yours .
the arabic people on the tv who lay down and seems to be dying or something like that are only acting most of them are just fine arab just want to show the world what they suffering and walking through.
i promise you that if you will come to sderot for 1 day your opinion will change.

Laila,

You are allowed to condemn Israel if you like, but you have to include a reasonable argument with this condemnation. The fact that you're Muslim, and some of your Muslim brothers are being killed in the Gaza strip, naturally diverts your point of view towards supporting them. Which is fine, but it doesn't make any sense.

The Palestinian rockets kill and hurt Israelis on a daily basis. I don't even need to provide you with a source; just watch the evening news. But besides that, this conflict doesn't resolve around the number of causalities of both sides. It all boils down to this: Palestinians are shooting rockets, daily, into independent Israeli territories. They are not shooting at settlements - that would be ungainly, as they are likely to miss - they are shooting at large towns instead. Sderot and Ashkelon are two large cities threatened by these rockets, and one day, one of these rockets is bound to carry destructive results - it had happened in the past.

For some time, we have had a truce with Hamas. It was clear that this truce was meant to give Israeli politicians some time to deal with their own, local affairs, while Hamas armed itself once again. During this period of time, and till this very same minute, Palestinians continue to receive humanitarian aid, which is conveyed to them through Israeli territory. They also continue to receive electricity through our electrical stations, as well as petrol and diesel. And yesterday, two Palestinian girls have been killed as a result of a rocket attack launched by their brothers. And guess who handed out ambulances to them, to take care of the wounded.

This fake truce has been broken by Hamas, which has apparently decided that they're armed and equipped well enough to continue murdering Israelis. But this time, Israel had a plan ready, which was flawlessly executed this morning. This plan was a defensive act, not a dirty scheme to murder Palestinians.

The attacks this morning have been carried out in an extremely precise manner, and used as little explosives as possible so as to minimize civilian causalities. It is not our fault that Hamas uses civilians as human shields. This was evident today - when the so-called 'heroes' launching the rockets, couldn't continue to do so from the north of the strip (with a timer, of course!), as the air force was watching. So instead, they retreated to some civilian areas. Lovely.

It is difficult to understand this situation. Until today, I couldn't understand it myself. I live in the center of Israel and never had any rockets landing near my house. But just today, visiting the city of Ashdod to meet some relatives, I was greeted with the first siren that this city has ever had. And trust me, until you've been in a similar situation, you can't understand how people living in the shadow of this threat live.

Laila said:

Where does hundreds of Israelis dead come from? Where are you getting that figure?

I think Hamas has suceeded in making Israel to make itself out as the 'bad' people in this raid.

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Im sorry, it was a question. I forgot the ?

Do you think that if Hamas had the weapons that could kill more israelis they wouldn't use them? killing hundreds of Israelis. Israel has no choice but to defend itsself.

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PeteEU said:

Both sides are idiots and have people in power that do not want peace.

Israel keeps building illegal settlements and oppresses the native Palestinians on so many fronts..

Palestinian radicals retaliate by lob rockets that could not hit the broadside of a barn or suicide bombers or what not

Israel fires back killing hundreds in the most densely populated place on earth.

Palestinian radicals retaliate again

Israel retaliates..

the cycle of stupidity continues... only ones getting anything out of this are the people in power and the weapons manufactures.

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I think this pretty much sums it up. There are no innocents in this case; both Israel and Palestine engage in tactics to kill each others civilians.

nirse1 said:

First of all , Laila , Palestine was warned out .
Israel told them that if they will attack us we will attack back .
What you see in tv isnt real israel only hurts hamas people they dont have interest in innocent people, but palestine does, they attack us 24\7 for like 10 years with no response from israel, believe me that if israel wants to attack palestine they will our forces are much stronger that yours .
the arabic people on the tv who lay down and seems to be dying or something like that are only acting most of them are just fine arab just want to show the world what they suffering and walking through.
i promise you that if you will come to sderot for 1 day your opinion will change.

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I know Hamas was warned, i even said above Israel was provoked.

Where my problem lies is the figures that seem to be emerging is highly favored on one side. No guesses as to which side that is.

Im sorry that your country is going through this and i would not expect no Government to take it, but when IRA bombings happened in UK. UK Government did not respond by air raiding and bombing civilian populations. More restraint should have been shown because sadly, Israel is not coming off as the victim here.

Laila said:

Seeing that it is civilians that is reported dead not militants.
Are you now equating Palestinian civilians to murderers who sent rockets?

I suggest re writing that paragraph and maybe you'll get a decent response

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Of course not. It is an absolute travesty that palestinian citizans are dying. As i said, every life lost is a tragedy.

But tell me this: Do you know what it's like? have you ever felt like you cannot walk safely in your own street? when every time you hear the alarm go off you wonder if your kids are safe? if they're alive?

The Hamas soldiers have made it impossible for Israeli people to lead a normal life. And as sad as it is losing inoccent civillians, maybe this whole situation, where 90% of the casualties are militants, is necessary to save kids, elders and innocent people, that all they did was lead a Jewish life?

You are allowed to condemn Israel if you like, but you have to include a reasonable argument with this condemnation. The fact that you're Muslim, and some of your Muslim brothers are being killed in the Gaza strip, naturally diverts your point of view towards supporting them. Which is fine, but it doesn't make any sense.

Wait, where does me being a Muslim get into this?
Yes i am a Muslim.
Yes Muslims are dying but that does not cloud by judgement
Muslims kill one another way more than Non Muslims do.
Im condemning both sides, hence why i said in my previous post that i would prefer my Prime Minister to show some backbone and condemn both Palestinians and Israelis. I have not said 'all this is Israel's fault and Palestine is guilt free'
Do not think for one second, it is Israel i see as the guilty side and Palestine as the innocent side.


And yesterday, two Palestinian girls have been killed as a result of a rocket attack launched by their brothers. And guess who handed out ambulances to them, to take care of the wounded.

You don't need to do that, im well aware that Israel helps Palestinians in many cases and i praise them when that does occur. That does not however take away from the pressing issue right now.

And trust me, until you've been in a similar situation, you can't understand how people living in the shadow of this threat live.

Your right, i have never gone through rocket attacks as an adult.
My nearest to war was during the Somalia conflict where Hargesia was bombed non stop but as a child, i can hardly recall it.

For those who are interested, BBC is now reporting on its website that most of those who were killed were Hamas operatives. BBC reported, "Most of those killed were policemen in the Hamas militant movement..." Unfortunately, there were civilian casualties, too. Given that Hamas places its facilities and operatives in the midst of civilians, Hamas bears responsibility for the civilian casualties that resulted when Israel targeted Hamas' facilities.

donsutherland1 said:

For those who are interested, BBC is now reporting on its website that most of those who were killed were Hamas operatives. BBC reported, "Most of those killed were policemen in the Hamas militant movement..." Unfortunately, there were civilian casualties, too. Given that Hamas places its facilities and operatives in the midst of civilians, Hamas bears responsibility for the civilian casualties that resulted when Israel targeted Hamas' facilities.

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Gaza = 10,665 inhabitants/square mile

- How could they not be in the midst of civilians?
- If it was possible not to be in the midst of civilians, aren't they policemen? Do you think that policemen are paid to stay in the desert?

Laila said:

195 reported dead civilians on Palestinians side.
1 on Israel's side

I know where my sympathy lies ...

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With a terrorist faction the civilized world has condemned it looks like.

Maybe the Israeli's should have just sat down and spoken with them. Pleaded for a civilized number of rockets to be launched into Israel.

Laila said:

Im sorry that your country is going through this and i would not expect no Government to take it, but when IRA bombings happened in UK. UK Government did not respond by air raiding and bombing civilian populations. More restraint should have been shown because sadly, Israel is not coming off as the victim here.

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I have a little problem with your comparison with the IRA bombing.

It is true that UK had responded appropriately due to the situation with the IRA. But I think you are forgetting something. This raid today is not one plain raid. this raid was called for due to many many terrorist attacka in israel. I urge you not to forget the suicide bombings in israel about 5 years ago. After that, for a long while rockets have been shooting at us, killing innocent civillians.

As for your comment on the numbers of palestinian casualties, sure, today there have been more casualties in palestine. But I think you're forgetting all the people that die fron the hamas' rockets. I suggest you find uot how namy died here in israel, and then talk about fair or not fair.

Laila said:

I know Hamas was warned, i even said above Israel was provoked.

Where my problem lies is the figures that seem to be emerging is highly favored on one side. No guesses as to which side that is.

Im sorry that your country is going through this and i would not expect no Government to take it, but when IRA bombings happened in UK. UK Government did not respond by air raiding and bombing civilian populations. More restraint should have been shown because sadly, Israel is not coming off as the victim here.

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You are right about the air raiding and bombing but israel took your damage for too long period.
and I dont speak about any rocket launchers or anything like that, if you are updated to know that israel released about more than 500 arabic prisoners over 2 dead bodies and that there are people in israel who are afraid to take a ride on a bus because of the terrorism we did nothing against that.
we even called for a calm down from both sides that here you go again, you break it.
Now when I'm thinking about joining to the israeli army and it's just like a suicide.
Maybe in your opinion Israel respond in a hard way but in every israeli mind it was just the right thing to do.
And I'm not saying all of that because i hate arabic people which i don't actually i have some real good arabic and muslim friends and I have learned very much about your tradition and history, I say it as an israeli who lives in a horror reality that happends day by day .
I cant even go hang out with my friends Israel have just became a dead place.

bub said:

Gaza = 10,665 inhabitants/square mile

- How could they not be in the midst of civilians?
- If it was possible not to be in the midst of civilians, aren't they policemen? Do you think that policemen are paid to stay in the desert?

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Nevertheless, Hamas deliberately chooses to carry out terrorist attacks from the Gaza Strip. The fact that its armed personnel are located in a densely-populated area does not excuse Hamas of its responsibility should those civilians come to harm when Hamas' armed elements are targeted in military strikes. Gaza's civilians are little more than human shields for Hamas and Hamas is wholly accountable for the consequences of its de facto human shielding.

Laila said:

You are allowed to condemn Israel if you like, but you have to include a reasonable argument with this condemnation. The fact that you're Muslim, and some of your Muslim brothers are being killed in the Gaza strip, naturally diverts your point of view towards supporting them. Which is fine, but it doesn't make any sense.

Wait, where does me being a Muslim get into this?
Yes i am a Muslim.
Yes Muslims are dying but that does not cloud by judgement
Muslims kill one another way more than Non Muslims do.
Im condemning both sides, hence why i said in my previous post that i would prefer my Prime Minister to show some backbone and condemn both Palestinians and Israelis. I have not said 'all this is Israel's fault and Palestine is guilt free'
Do not think for one second, it is Israel i see as the guilty side and Palestine as the innocent side.


And yesterday, two Palestinian girls have been killed as a result of a rocket attack launched by their brothers. And guess who handed out ambulances to them, to take care of the wounded.

You don't need to do that, im well aware that Israel helps Palestinians in many cases and i praise them when that does occur. That does not however take away from the pressing issue right now.

And trust me, until you've been in a similar situation, you can't understand how people living in the shadow of this threat live.

Your right, i have never gone through rocket attacks as an adult.
My nearest to war was during the Somalia conflict where Hargesia was bombed non stop but as a child, i can hardly recall it.

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And yet, you have said:

195 reported dead civilians on Palestinians side.
1 on Israel's side

I know where my sympathy lies ...

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Its not Hamas rockets that are killing civilians but Israel's.
Everytime a attack happens, do you notice that more civilians seem to die compared to actual militants?

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To be honest with you, to me that doesn't sound like condemning both sides. We don't count bodies here. It's really quite easy to feel sorry for what appears to be the underdog. And yet, think logically. The blame is put on Hamas. They have started this. They fire rockets into civilian areas. They have been warned.

That does not however take away from the pressing issue right now

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What is the pressing issue? Israel has launched an attack on establishments related to Hamas. As stated here, most of the dead are Hamas activists. They are directly related to this conflict.

Tal said:

It is difficult to understand this situation. Until today, I couldn't understand it myself. I live in the center of Israel and never had any rockets landing near my house. But just today, visiting the city of Ashdod to meet some relatives, I was greeted with the first siren that this city has ever had. And trust me, until you've been in a similar situation, you can't understand how people living in the shadow of this threat live.

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Unfortunately, there is nobody posting here from Gaza to tell us how it feels to be under siege with no electricity, fuel, food and medical supplies in a day where 220+ died, 400 injured over 120 seriously, many more still under the wreckage with F16s flying over head causing fear and terror for a 1.5 million people.

lynnb said:

I have a little problem with your comparison with the IRA bombing.

It is true that UK had responded appropriately due to the situation with the IRA. But I think you are forgetting something. This raid today is not one plain raid. this raid was called for due to many many terrorist attacka in israel. I urge you not to forget the suicide bombings in israel about 5 years ago. After that, for a long while rockets have been shooting at us, killing innocent civillians.

As for your comment on the numbers of palestinian casualties, sure, today there have been more casualties in palestine. But I think you're forgetting all the people that die fron the hamas' rockets. I suggest you find uot how namy died here in israel, and then talk about fair or not fair.

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UK Military did respond, i was merely making the point that it did not respond in such a way as being demonstrated now to achieve its goal.

I have searched how many have died not only in this raid but over the past few weeks and it seems to me through the articles i have been scanning, the numbers are still higher on the Palestinian side.

SquareMelon said:

Unfortunately, there is nobody posting here from Gaza to tell us how it feels to be under siege with no electricity, fuel, food and medical supplies in a day where 220+ died, 400 injured over 120 seriously, many more still under the wreckage with F16s flying over head causing fear and terror for a 1.5 million people.

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Bull****,
Israel supplies Gaza electicity ,water , food, medicals, water and everything they need to exict.
No more need to say, Gaza just show the world diffrent things that have proven wrong.

zimmer said:

With a terrorist faction the civilized world has condemned it looks like.

Maybe the Israeli's should have just sat down and spoken with them. Pleaded for a civilized number of rockets to be launched into Israel.

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That's a wonderful idea. but absolutely unrealistic. Recent history has taught us that it is nearly impossible to talk to them.

Regardless of Israel, there's a mess in Gaza. Hamas has driven away the local authorities, and ever since then there has been chaos in there. this is also the reason why they are lacking in medicine and clean water.

due to that situation, Talking to Abu Mazen, the leader of the local authorities, would do nothing.
Besides that, there have been calming periods in the gaza strip several times. those were constantly broken by Hamas militants, when they shoot rockets at Sederot and Ashkelon.