GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

Kernel Sanders · Dec 17, 2008

Source [Yahoo! News (AP) | GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash]

DETROIT – General Motors Corp., anxiously conserving cash so it can keep operating into 2009, said Wednesday it would halt construction of a plant tied to one of its most important projects while the automaker awaits a Washington bailout.

GM said it is putting the brakes on the construction of a factory in Flint, Mich., set to make 1.4-liter engines for the Chevrolet Cruze and the Chevy Volt plug-in electric car.

Oftencold · Dec 17, 2008

They should be denied bailout funds for wanting to build another plant in Michigan. Oh and also for the absurdity of wanting to market an electric car.

Kandahar · Dec 18, 2008

Oftencold said:
They should be denied bailout funds for wanting to build another plant in Michigan.

Ya, I don't understand why they keep opening plants in Michigan when there are plenty of states that DON'T try to strangle their industries to death: California, Nevada, Delaware, Tennessee, the Carolinas, and Alabama come to mind.

Oftencold said:
Oh and also for the absurdity of wanting to market an electric car.

I disagree. That makes perfect sense. GM was poised to be the first auto manufacturer to develop an cheap electric car for commercial sales...now it seems likely that Toyota or Honda will beat them.

7thKeeper · Dec 18, 2008

It seems like a case of "damned if I do, damned if I don't." If they don't shut down, they'll run out of cash too fast. If they do shut down, they'll make it further with what they have... but end up stopping work on a model that might give them a bit of needed edge in the future.

Gill · Dec 18, 2008

Kandahar said:
Ya, I don't understand why they keep opening plants in Michigan when there are plenty of states that DON'T try to strangle their industries to death: California, Nevada, Delaware, Tennessee, the Carolinas, and Alabama come to mind.

Don't forget Kentucky, Indiana, and Ohio among others.

I guess the auto makers in these states are so 'strangled' that they need a government bail out. Oops, wait, I forgot. Plants in these states are profitable and the workers aren't worried about losing their jobs. :roll:

We have four auto plants here, 2 Ford, 1 GM, and 1 Toyota. Toyota is the only plant that is profitable and the people there are happy.

The Toyota plant is also the cleanest of the four by far. You can eat off the floor. You'd better dig out some clothes and shoes that you don't want anymore before going in the others.

Kandahar · Dec 18, 2008

Gill said:
Don't forget Kentucky, Indiana, and Ohio among others.

Kentucky is a bit better. Indiana and Ohio are nearly as bad as Michigan. During b-school I designed supply chains for several automotive companies. In Ohio especially, there are massive layoffs. I dunno about the auto manufacturers themselves, but their suppliers are not doing well at all.

I've been to Toyota's facilities in Hebron and Georgetown, and I completely agree. They are very clean and efficient.

Khayembii Communique · Dec 18, 2008

They're going to go under anyways; might as well make as many environmentally friendly cars as possible in that time period.

Zyphlin · Dec 18, 2008

Oftencold said:
Oh and also for the absurdity of wanting to market an electric car.

Seriously, no.

The Volt is perhaps THE most anticipated car coming out of Chevy right now. Its actually why this move just boggles my mind.

First, the Volt isn't an "electric" car. It is the truest form of Hybrid you could really get. Under 40 miles and it can go on the electric power the entire way. Makes it wonderful for your daily commutes around a city, etc. HOWEVER, it also does take gasoline or ethenol which will allow its range to be extended up to 600 miles I believe. It also helps catch the common pitfalls of an electric car with "what if the suns not out" (When solor powered) or "what happens if you run out of battery".

Second, if they actually got it out on time they'd have the first real plug-in hybrid that likely hit hte U.S. Markets and would've provided an American alternative to the oversea's hybrids that likely would've sold well. On top of that Chevy has got more buzz about this car than anything they've done, and this thing is hot and wanted. To do anything to screw it coming out on time is foolishness.

Tucker Case · Dec 18, 2008

Zyphlin said:
On top of that Chevy has got more buzz about this car than anything they've done, and this thing is hot and wanted. To do anything to screw it coming out on time is foolishness.

That's why they are making the move. Tehy want the govenremtn to bail them out, and by taking the most highly anticipated American vehical in years out of the running, they are sending a message that they are "doomed" and need to be saved.

That's my take on it.

Iriemon · Dec 18, 2008

Zyphlin said:
Seriously, no.

The Volt is perhaps THE most anticipated car coming out of Chevy right now. Its actually why this move just boggles my mind.

First, the Volt isn't an "electric" car. It is the truest form of Hybrid you could really get. Under 40 miles and it can go on the electric power the entire way. Makes it wonderful for your daily commutes around a city, etc. HOWEVER, it also does take gasoline or ethenol which will allow its range to be extended up to 600 miles I believe. It also helps catch the common pitfalls of an electric car with "what if the suns not out" (When solor powered) or "what happens if you run out of battery".

Second, if they actually got it out on time they'd have the first real plug-in hybrid that likely hit hte U.S. Markets and would've provided an American alternative to the oversea's hybrids that likely would've sold well. On top of that Chevy has got more buzz about this car than anything they've done, and this thing is hot and wanted. To do anything to screw it coming out on time is foolishness.

With gas at less than $2/gal, and the economy weak, how many customers would be willing to pay a significantly higher price for a vehicle that gets more miles to the gallon?

TheNextEra · Dec 18, 2008

Iriemon said:
With gas at less than $2/gal, and the economy weak, how many customers would be willing to pay a significantly higher price for a vehicle that gets more miles to the gallon?

And how long do you expect gas to remain at $2/gal?

You are also forgetting one thing, if you drive less than 40 miles per day, you pay NOTHING on gas, it is all electric and the electric used is domestic, not foreign.

I already have 3/4 the cash I think they will charge for it and will buy it when I have the rest saved which should be in about 2 years and know many others that plan to buy it when it comes out.

You can keep your all gas cars.

Gill · Dec 18, 2008

TheNextEra said:
And how long do you expect gas to remain at $2/gal?

You are also forgetting one thing, if you drive less than 40 miles per day, you pay NOTHING on gas, it is all electric and the electric used is domestic, not foreign.

I already have 3/4 the cash I think they will charge for it and will buy it when I have the rest saved which should be in about 2 years and know many others that plan to buy it when it comes out.

You can keep your all gas cars.

As soon as you get one, you'd better start saving up for new batteries. I understand they must be replaced every few years, just like all batteries. I heard that to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones, it'll cost you thousands of dollars.

TheNextEra · Dec 18, 2008

Gill said:
As soon as you get one, you'd better start saving up for new batteries. I understand they must be replaced every few years, just like all batteries. I heard that to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones, it'll cost you thousands of dollars.

The batteries can last over 10 years if charged once per day or about 10 years normal use.

The technology has significantly increased with batteries. I think you need to look into it more.

10 years ago you would be correct.

Some info for you on batteries.

By law, electric car batteries must last 120,000 miles (or the real reason behind GM's battery leasing plans?) - AutoblogGreen

FAQ on Honda Civic Hybrid Petrol Electric Car

EV batteries demonstrate 180,000-plus mile lifespan

Iriemon · Dec 18, 2008

TheNextEra said:
And how long do you expect gas to remain at $2/gal?

What I think is irrelevant. It's what the market thinks.

You are also forgetting one thing, if you drive less than 40 miles per day, you pay NOTHING on gas, it is all electric and the electric used is domestic, not foreign.

At $2/gal with a car that gets 30mpg, that's $3 a day. How many days is that for a car that is expected to cost what, $10k more than its gas engine equivalent?

I already have 3/4 the cash I think they will charge for it and will buy it when I have the rest saved which should be in about 2 years and know many others that plan to buy it when it comes out.

You can keep your all gas cars.

The question is how many others think the same way.

Gill · Dec 18, 2008

TheNextEra said:
The batteries can last over 30 years if charged once per day.

The technology has significantly increased with batteries. I think you need to look into it more.

10 years ago you would be correct.

None of the rechargeable batteries I own last more than a couple of years and I own lot's of them. They may actually still "work", but they won't hold charges for any length of time, so they are practically worthless.

TheNextEra · Dec 18, 2008

Iriemon said:
What I think is irrelevant. It's what the market thinks.

Well you can gamble with foreign countries that control oil all you want, I won't have to in a few years as much as I do now.

Iriemon said:
At $2/gal with a car that gets 30mpg, that's $3 a day. How many days is that for a car that is expected to cost what, $10k more than its gas engine equivalent?

Again, you are looking at it per year, I am looking at it that gas is going to skyrocket again and am planning on it accordingly. Also with the volt you are able to get a rebate from the government.

Iriemon said:
The question is how many others think the same way.

Hey if people want to remain ignorant and reliant on foreign oil as their primary fuel, that's up to them.

Me I will take my chance on Using American Energy as my primary source, not Foreign.

TheNextEra · Dec 18, 2008

Gill said:
None of the rechargeable batteries I own last more than a couple of years and I own lot's of them. They may actually still "work", but they won't hold charges for any length of time, so they are practically worthless.

Your rechargeable batteries aren't using the same technology nor are their uses for the same time they are looking for car usage.

Different technology, different cost, different life usage. You are comparing apples to oranges here.

Gill · Dec 18, 2008

TheNextEra said:
Your rechargeable batteries aren't using the same technology nor are their uses for the same time they are looking for car usage.

Different technology, different cost, different life usage. You are comparing apples to oranges here.

It's not that different. Battery packs are only warranted for 80,000 miles and cost around $2,300. to replace.

TheNextEra · Dec 18, 2008

Gill said:
It's not that different. Battery packs are only warranted for 80,000 miles and cost around $2,300. to replace.

LOL you don't think the technology is different from your batteries that last a few years to a car battery that can last over 10?

Sorry don't agree there.

Warranties are guarantees that the product will last a certain time and not guarantees that it won't last longer. You act like once 80K hits the battery fails. That is not the case, testing has proven the life of these batteries to be a lot longer. That is not even including state regulations on battery leasing options to make sure you get 120K plus miles on the car.

I'll take my chance on that rather than supporting foreign countries fully for my fuel source. But hey you do what you want. If you want to support OPEC fully, be my guest.

Gill · Dec 18, 2008

TheNextEra said:
LOL you don't think the technology is different from your batteries that last a few years to a car battery that can last over 10?

Sorry don't agree there.

Warranties are guarantees that the product will last a certain time and not guarantees that it won't last longer. You act like once 80K hits the battery fails. That is not the case, testing has proven the life of these batteries to be a lot longer. That is not even including state regulations on battery leasing options to make sure you get 120K plus miles on the car.

I'll take my chance on that rather than supporting foreign countries fully for my fuel source. But hey you do what you want. If you want to support OPEC fully, be my guest.

I wouldn't consider an electric car any way, at least not until they improve dramatically. I couldn't get to work and back on a charge.

TheNextEra · Dec 18, 2008

Gill said:
I wouldn't consider an electric car any way, at least not until they improve dramatically. I couldn't get to work and back on a charge.

Well as is known the volt is not fully electric, it is a hybrid. Much better right now for a transition. 40 miles with no gasoline is better than 40 miles with gasoline from a foreign country IMO.

Again, though, the choice is yours. I am not getting any extra compensation from volt for someone getting a car from an internet forum board conversation

Just trying to set the record straight that it is not as bad or unreliable as some try to make it out. I'm quite proud they are coming out with it. It's about time.

Gill · Dec 18, 2008

TheNextEra said:
Well as is known the volt is not fully electric, it is a hybrid. Much better right now for a transition. 40 miles with no gasoline is better than 40 miles with gasoline from a foreign country IMO.

Again, though, the choice is yours. I am not getting any extra compensation from volt for someone getting a car from an internet forum board conversation

Just trying to set the record straight that it is not as bad or unreliable as some try to make it out. I'm quite proud they are coming out with it. It's about time.

The little car would not haul all I need every day in my work, so it is not an option even if it did get more miles/charge.

I drive a company vehicle, so I don't personally pay for gas commuting back and forth to work. That doesn't mean I don't care about fuel mileage, just that it doesn't hit me in the pocketbook. I do have two personal vehicles, but they are driven less than 50 miles/week.

TheNextEra · Dec 18, 2008

Gill said:
The little car would not haul all I need every day in my work, so it is not an option even if it did get more miles/charge.

I drive a company vehicle, so I don't personally pay for gas commuting back and forth to work. That doesn't mean I don't care about fuel mileage, just that it doesn't hit me in the pocketbook. I do have two personal vehicles, but they are driven less than 50 miles/week.

Yep and the volt is definately not for everyone, however, for those that just use their car to drive and not haul, it is an incredible thing.

Gill · Dec 18, 2008

TheNextEra said:
Yep and the volt is definately not for everyone, however, for those that just use their car to drive and not haul, it is an incredible thing.

Yep, if they get a chance to build an engine for it.

Kernel Sanders · Dec 18, 2008

Gill said:
The little car would not haul all I need every day in my work, so it is not an option even if it did get more miles/charge.

I drive a company vehicle, so I don't personally pay for gas commuting back and forth to work. That doesn't mean I don't care about fuel mileage, just that it doesn't hit me in the pocketbook. I do have two personal vehicles, but they are driven less than 50 miles/week.

Most of the problems people have with electrics are that they won't perform well in situations where they...aren't designed to perform well. A volt is not trying to replace an f150, and neither is a mini. A volt isn't intended for a cross country journey either. If you're bothered by the fact that it can't tow well and has a range of 600 miles, you just aren't in the market for an electric. That doesn't mean that electrics are flawed in concept. For people with short commutes who aren't hauling things (I would guess that the vast majority of auto usage falls into this category), and electric or hybrid is a fantastic idea. Were I staying in the city after I graduate, I would buy one for sure. It would pay itself off in a year under city driving conditions.

GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

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