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GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

Oftencold said:
I rather like to think that it won't happen in other people's lifetime.

However you miss my point. I require no great fantasy to see the possibilities of viable energy solutions. But little electric cars just aren't a good choice. Not unless near limitless clean energy can be produced.

There are possibilities for this however. One of the best, is orbital solar cells transmitting power to the surface in the form of microwave lasers. (In a pinch they'd make great weapons too!)

Such things are just beyond current technology, but far beyond current economic pressures.
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So what you're hoping for is something to be better that isn't there yet.

Um solar power is the most inefficient method compared to electric or hybrid right now and you just hoping that it will be better? Gimme a break.

Not even taking into consideration cloud cover or anything else. Also microwave bandwidth is extremely small from space compared to what is receieved on Earth to be considreed a viable energy source.

So again, you don't care what happens now, you just hope and pray there is some miracle thing that happens in the future. Sorry, but that isn't how it happens.

We didn't magically go from the 8051 to the Quad Core processors we have now. That isn't how technology works.

If electric and hybird electric don't prove themselves as permanent, they sure and the hell prove themselves to be transitional technologies to what is to come better than NOTHING like you want to wait and happen later.
 
TheNextEra said:
So what you're hoping for is something to be better that isn't there yet.

Um solar power is the most inefficient method compared to electric or hybrid right now and you just hoping that it will be better? Gimme a break.

Not even taking into consideration cloud cover or anything else. Also microwave bandwidth is extremely small from space compared to what is receieved on Earth to be considreed a viable energy source.

So again, you don't care what happens now, you just hope and pray there is some miracle thing that happens in the future. Sorry, but that isn't how it happens.

We didn't magically go from the 8051 to the Quad Core processors we have now. That isn't how technology works.

If electric and hybird electric don't prove themselves as permanent, they sure and the hell prove themselves to be transitional technologies to what is to come better than NOTHING like you want to wait and happen later.
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Very well. You support existing bad technology that will cost much and save little, I support the development of technology that doesn't yet exist.

I think we've about exhausted the possibilities of discussion here.
 
Edit: Previously I said that Microwave Bandwidth is small compared to what is received on Earth, that is incorrect, what I meant to say is the Power that is transmitted from a space based Microwave antenna and what is received on Earth from that is small sorry.
 
Oftencold said:
Very well. You support existing bad technology that will cost much and save little, I support the development of technology that doesn't yet exist.

I think we've about exhausted the possibilities of discussion here.
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Not really the reality of the situation is that 40 miles that does not use gas is better than 40 miles that does use gas.

Can't get past those facts.

You lose. Keep dreaming that other technologies may help us, but we have some technologies now that will help us now. You can't dispute this.

I have no doubt that we may get better ways, but everything happens in steps. We don't go from the 8051 processor to the processors we have now in a single step.

Electric cars and Electric hybrids are only a start and not the solution, but it is better than waiting on a dream solution form somewhere else. Hell we are in a market so if this dream solution happens, it will surpass the electric/electric hybrid so what are you worried about?
 
TheNextEra said:
Not really the reality of the situation is that 40 miles that does not use gas is better than 40 miles that does use gas.

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Do you think your cost for the energy to go that 40 miles will be less with electric?
 
TOJ said:
Do you think your cost for the energy to go that 40 miles will be less with electric?
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Depends largely on where you live.

Target battery capacity is 16kw. Electricity costs range from ~6.7c/kwh (Idaho) to ~30c/kwh (Hawaii). The National average is about 11c/kwh.

So...

If you were to discharge the battery completely every single day, and fully recharge it every single night, the prices would look like so:

Idaho: $1.07 per charge, $7.50 a week, $32.10 per month.
Average: $1.76 per charge, $12.32 a week, $52.80 per month.
Hawaii: $4.80 per charge, $33.60 a week, $144 per month. :shock:

*Again those numbers are considering you drive 40 miles, 7 seven days a week.*

Using today's average US gasoline cost of $1.67 for reg unleaded, the volt would dollar/mile be equivalent to 62mpg in Idaho, 38mpg national, and a not so attractive looking 14mpg in Hawaii.

That is of course not factoring in any nightly discounts for off peak usage, and it is also comparing it to rather low cost gas. If gas were to find it's way back up to 4 bucks a gallon, those "mpg" numbers would be more like 150, 91, and 33, respectively.
 
505 said:
Depends largely on where you live.

Target battery capacity is 16kw. Electricity costs range from ~6.7c/kwh (Idaho) to ~30c/kwh (Hawaii). The National average is about 11c/kwh.

So...

If you were to discharge the battery completely every single day, and fully recharge it every single night, the prices would look like so:

Idaho: $1.07 per charge, $7.50 a week, $32.10 per month.
Average: $1.76 per charge, $12.32 a week, $52.80 per month.
Hawaii: $4.80 per charge, $33.60 a week, $144 per month. :shock:

*Again those numbers are considering you drive 40 miles, 7 seven days a week.*

Using today's average US gasoline cost of $1.67 for reg unleaded, the volt would dollar/mile be equivalent to 62mpg in Idaho, 38mpg national, and a not so attractive looking 14mpg in Hawaii.

That is of course not factoring in any nightly discounts for off peak usage, and it is also comparing it to rather low cost gas. If gas were to find it's way back up to 4 bucks a gallon, those "mpg" numbers would be more like 150, 91, and 33, respectively.
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As you noted it all depends when at what time of day you charge it and in what state as well as assuming gas stays around $2 which we know it won't stay forever.

But the biggest benefit by far IMO, is that all the energy used is domestic, supporting domestic companies and not foreign.

I'd rather pay an American Electric Company the cost for energy, rather than supporting foreign oil companies.

And lastly, while the volt will not take care of the needs of all drivers, it will help to reduce the amount of money that goes towards foreign oil.
 
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TheNextEra said:
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I'd rather pay an American Electric Company the cost for energy, rather than supporting foreign oil companies.

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I would rather not pay either but since I really like my Suburban...
 
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