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D.A. Is Investigating Trump and His Company Over Fraud, Filing Suggests

The AntiDonald said:
You guys are so hypocritical. You keep saying that it all has to be proven, but at the same time think it's unfair for NY to investigate. You can't prove anything without an investigation.
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No, I'm saying NY state doesn't have the authority to investigate Federal tax fraud. I also know that investigations can't take place w/o probable cause.
 
apdst said:
No, I'm saying NY state doesn't have the authority to investigate Federal tax fraud. I also know that investigations can't take place w/o probable cause.
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Trump's private attorney testifying under oath that Trump performs these acts, which are crimes, should overcome any probable cause burden.
 
MTAtech said:
You don't get to invent your own law. Fortunately, the Supreme Court does get to decide the law. In the matter at hand, the SCOTUS ruled that Congress DOES have the authority if there is a legislative purpose.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19-715_febh.pdf

In Mazars, the District Court granted judgment for the House and
the D. C. Circuit affirmed, finding that the subpoena issued by the
Oversight Committee served a valid legislative purpose because the
requested information was relevant to reforming financial disclosure
requirements for Presidents and presidential candidates. In Deutsche
Bank, the District Court denied a preliminary injunction and the Second Circuit affirmed in substantial part, holding that the Intelligence
Committee properly issued its subpoena to Deutsche Bank as part of
an investigation into alleged foreign influence in the U. S. political process, which could inform legislation to strengthen national security
and combat foreign meddling. The court also concluded that the subpoenas issued by the Financial Services Committee to Deutsche Bank
and Capital One were adequately related to potential legislation on
money laundering, terrorist financing, and the global movement of illicit funds through the real estate market.
Held: The courts below did not take adequate account of the significant
separation of powers concerns implicated by congressional subpoenas
for the President’s information. Pp. 7–20.
(a) Historically, disputes over congressional demands for presidential documents have been resolved by the political branches through
negotiation and compromise without involving this Court. The Court
recognizes that this dispute is the first of its kind to reach the Court;
that such disputes can raise important issues concerning relations between the branches; that similar disputes recur on a regular basis, including in the context of deeply partisan controversy; and that Congress and the Executive have nonetheless managed for over two
centuries to resolve these disputes among themselves without Supreme Court guidance. Such longstanding practice “‘is a consideration
of great weight’ ” in cases concerning “the allocation of power between
[the] two elected branches of Government,” and it imposes on the Court
a duty of care to ensure that it does not needlessly disturb “the compromises and working arrangements” reached by those branches.
NLRB v. Noel Canning, 573 U. S. 513, 524–526 (quoting The Pocket
Veto Case, 279 U. S. 655, 689). Pp. 7–11.
(b) Each House of Congress has the power “to secure needed information” in order to legislate. McGrain v. Daugherty, 273 U. S. 135,
161. This power is “indispensable” because, without information, Congress would be unable to legislate wisely or effectively. Watkins v.
United States, 354 U. S. 178, 215. Because this power is “justified
solely as an adjunct to the legislative process,” it is subject to several
limitations. Id., at 197.
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From your source...

...valid legislative purpose...
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You proved me correct: Congress can't investigate a citizen, or non-citizen for that matter, just because they want to, or for political reasons, or to conduct a criminal investigation.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Grand juries don't indict people for "purely political reasons".



Michael Cohen criminal charge #8 - plead guilty...

"Caused $280,000 in payments to be made to silence two women who otherwise planned to speak publicly about their alleged affairs with a presidential candidate, thereby intending to influence the 2016 presidential election."

Campaign finance violations Trump is probably on the hook for....

• Causing American Media Inc. (AMI) to make and/or accepting (or causing his then lawyer Michael Cohen to accept) an unlawful corporate contribution related to Karen McDougal.
• Two instances of causing Donald J. Trump for President LLC’s failure to report contributions from AMI and Cohen related to McDougal and Clifford.
• Causing Donald J. Trump for President LLC to file false reports with the Federal Election Commission (FEC).
• Making a false statement by failing to disclose liability to Cohen for the Clifford payment on his 2017 public financial disclosure form.
• Conspiracy to defraud the United States by undermining the lawful function of the FEC and/or violating federal campaign finance law related to “hush money” payments, false statements, and cover-ups of payments to Cohen made by the Trump Organization.

Hope Hicks could also be charged as a co-conspirator via 'coordination'.
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To prove that charge one would have to prove that the payments to the stripper and the other woman were ONLY for political reasons. Since guys pay off chicks they had flings with all the time that's one heck of a row to hoe. The accusations, however, do appear to have been made for purely political reasons.
 
MTAtech said:
Trump's private attorney testifying under oath that Trump performs these acts, which are crimes, should overcome any probable cause burden.
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They call that "hearsay". It still doesn't give a state attorney the authority to investigate Federal tax returns. You can thank Obama for that.
 
apdst said:
From your source...

You proved me correct: Congress can't investigate a citizen, or non-citizen for that matter, just because they want to, or for political reasons, or to conduct a criminal investigation.
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Congress needs this information so they can form laws to assure that future presidents are not under undue foreign influence or a blackmail threat from corporate sources.
 
BlueTex said:
This should get interesting.... Makes it very, very difficult to justify denying access to the tax records...
The Manhattan district attorney’s office suggested on Monday that it has been investigating President Trump and his company for possible bank and insurance fraud, a significantly broader inquiry than the prosecutors have acknowledged in the past.
The office of the district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., made the disclosure in a new federal court filing arguing Mr. Trump should have to comply with its subpoena seeking eight years of his personal and corporate tax returns. Mr. Trump has asked a judge to declare the subpoena invalid.
The prosecutors did not directly identify the focus of their inquiry but said that “undisputed” news reports last year about Mr. Trump’s business practices make it clear that the office had a legal basis for the subpoena.
President Trump and his Company Investigated for Possible Fraud, Filing Suggests - The New York Times
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"... The prosecutors did not directly identify the focus of their inquiry but said that “undisputed” news reports last year about Mr. Trump’s business practices make it clear that the office had a legal basis for the subpoena."


:lamo
 
MTAtech said:
Congress needs this information so they can form laws to assure that future presidents are not under undue foreign influence or a blackmail threat from corporate sources.
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That isn't why. They want his tax returns so they can leak them to the media in an attempt to score political points...lmao!

They don't need his tax returns, or anyone elses, to pass such a law. All they need do is pass the ****ing thing. :lamo
 
apdst said:
They call that "hearsay". It still doesn't give a state attorney the authority to investigate Federal tax returns. You can thank Obama for that.
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Once again, you are displaying your legal ignorance. Hearsay is information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate. Cohen had direct knowledge of these events as his attorney. That's firsthand knowledge.
 
BlueTex said:
This should get interesting.... Makes it very, very difficult to justify denying access to the tax records...


The Manhattan district attorney’s office suggested on Monday that it has been investigating President Trump and his company for possible bank and insurance fraud, a significantly broader inquiry than the prosecutors have acknowledged in the past.

The office of the district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., made the disclosure in a new federal court filing arguing Mr. Trump should have to comply with its subpoena seeking eight years of his personal and corporate tax returns. Mr. Trump has asked a judge to declare the subpoena invalid.

The prosecutors did not directly identify the focus of their inquiry but said that “undisputed” news reports last year about Mr. Trump’s business practices make it clear that the office had a legal basis for the subpoena.

President Trump and his Company Investigated for Possible Fraud, Filing Suggests - The New York Times
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The more that I find-out about the details of the court filings, the more I'm coming to believe Trump might be facing significant legal troubles of a criminal nature.
 
Barnacle said:
"... The prosecutors did not directly identify the focus of their inquiry but said that “undisputed” news reports last year about Mr. Trump’s business practices make it clear that the office had a legal basis for the subpoena."


:lamo
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And what they actually said in the filing is:

Although the Office bears no affirmative burden to justify the breadth of the Mazars Subpoena, and although Plaintiff is not entitled to know the scope and nature of the grand jury investigation, publicly available information itself establishes a satisfactory predicate for the Mazars Subpoena.
 
MTAtech said:
Once again, you are displaying your legal ignorance. Hearsay is information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate. Cohen had direct knowledge of these events as his attorney. That's firsthand knowledge.
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I'll also add, that hearsay evidence is indeed legally admissible in conspiracy cases, of which the Cohen-Trump case is.
 
BlueTex said:
And what they actually said in the filing is:

Although the Office bears no affirmative burden to justify the breadth of the Mazars Subpoena, and although Plaintiff is not entitled to know the scope and nature of the grand jury investigation, publicly available information itself establishes a satisfactory predicate for the Mazars Subpoena.
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You know you're in trouble when public knowledge is cited to justify a warrant! :lamo
 
MTAtech said:
Once again, you are displaying your legal ignorance. Hearsay is information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate. Cohen had direct knowledge of these events as his attorney. That's firsthand knowledge.
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One of the charges Cohen was convicted on was perjury, too...lol.
 
Chomsky said:
You know you're in trouble when public knowledge is cited to justify a warrant! :lamo
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That's not what the legal eagles tell me... All is well in Trump world... :2razz: Something, something, constitution, something, MAGA...
 
dcsports said:
Fishing is an abuse.
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Only to the fish... Unfortunately for Donald, Vance doesn't strike me as the catch and release kind of guy...
 
Chomsky said:
You know you're in trouble when public knowledge is cited to justify a warrant! :lamo
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Manhattan DA Probing Trump’s ‘Protracted Criminal Conduct’

"The Manhattan district attorney’s office announced today it was investigating “public reports of possibly extensive and protracted criminal conduct at the Trump Organization.” The office had previously been thought to be focusing on a potential campaign-finance violation from Trump’s giving hush-money payments to alleged former lovers. In a sane world — a world we left behind long ago — the news that the president of the United States was facing a probe for a wicked array of alleged crimes would be a world-shattering revelation. In the world in which we reside, it may or may not register in the news cycle.
...
Vance is trying to obtain Trump financial records that could confirm publicly reported crimes. There are potentially a lot of them. A New York Times investigation two years ago found a trail of phony records used in what the newspaper described as clear fraud. Trump has reportedly collected phony hurricane damages. ProPublica has uncovered massive discrepancies between the figures Trump has given to lenders and the government, portraying himself as rich to the banks and poor to the government, thus defrauding either one or both."
 
MTAtech said:
Manhattan DA Probing Trump’s ‘Protracted Criminal Conduct’

"The Manhattan district attorney’s office announced today it was investigating “public reports of possibly extensive and protracted criminal conduct at the Trump Organization.” The office had previously been thought to be focusing on a potential campaign-finance violation from Trump’s giving hush-money payments to alleged former lovers. In a sane world — a world we left behind long ago — the news that the president of the United States was facing a probe for a wicked array of alleged crimes would be a world-shattering revelation. In the world in which we reside, it may or may not register in the news cycle.
...
Vance is trying to obtain Trump financial records that could confirm publicly reported crimes. There are potentially a lot of them. A New York Times investigation two years ago found a trail of phony records used in what the newspaper described as clear fraud. Trump has reportedly collected phony hurricane damages. ProPublica has uncovered massive discrepancies between the figures Trump has given to lenders and the government, portraying himself as rich to the banks and poor to the government, thus defrauding either one or both."
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Her See! :2razz:
 
BlueTex said:
That's not what the legal eagles tell me... All is well in Trump world... :2razz: Something, something, constitution, something, MAGA...
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Of course it is. Until he loses Presidential immunity ...
 
Chomsky said:
You know you're in trouble when public knowledge is cited to justify a warrant! :lamo
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Yeah, the FBI tried using a media article as probable cause during Operation crossfire Hurricane and they got their asses handed to them...lol
 
MTAtech said:
Manhattan DA Probing Trump’s ‘Protracted Criminal Conduct’

"The Manhattan district attorney’s office announced today it was investigating “public reports of possibly extensive and protracted criminal conduct at the Trump Organization.” The office had previously been thought to be focusing on a potential campaign-finance violation from Trump’s giving hush-money payments to alleged former lovers. In a sane world — a world we left behind long ago — the news that the president of the United States was facing a probe for a wicked array of alleged crimes would be a world-shattering revelation. In the world in which we reside, it may or may not register in the news cycle.
...
Vance is trying to obtain Trump financial records that could confirm publicly reported crimes. There are potentially a lot of them. A New York Times investigation two years ago found a trail of phony records used in what the newspaper described as clear fraud. Trump has reportedly collected phony hurricane damages. ProPublica has uncovered massive discrepancies between the figures Trump has given to lenders and the government, portraying himself as rich to the banks and poor to the government, thus defrauding either one or both."
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I must admit, I was taken back by the inefficacy of the Mueller Investigation. But, I always said it would open-up a Pandora's box of private legal woes for The Dear Donald.
 
apdst said:
Yeah, the FBI tried using a media article as probable cause during Operation crossfire Hurricane and they got their asses handed to them...lol
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Funny you should mention that...

We are pleased that our review of these applications concluded that all contained sufficient basis for probable cause and uncovered only two material errors, neither of which invalidated the authorizations granted by the FISA Court.

Statement of Assistant Attorney General for National Security John C. Demers on the Public Release of the Department’s Findings with Respect to the 29 FISA Applications that Were the Subject of the March 2020 OIG Preliminary Report | OPA | Department of Justice
 
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