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Appeals Court Erases Order to End Michael Flynn Case, Sets New Arguments

post said:
You've apparently got plenty of time to exhibit a child-like faith in a con job (AKA a fraud upon the court, according to the actual evidence and the court record) by the "conner-in-chief's" surrogates, William Barr and Sidney Powell !

Mr. Trump enjoyed protection from the Mueller team by a highly paid "bevy" of expert lawyers, stalled for close to a year, and then somehow overlooked this question, not specific to the transition period, despite providing an answer to a transition period question. Mr. Trump was non-responsive....look it up! Compare his non-response to the DOJ filing language in the first image in my last post!

Specifically, this, in the DOJ, 01-07-20 filing.:

View attachment 67289998
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"Report" what a fancy name for trash and lies. Dude, you are more than likely copy/pasting all over the web. I couldn't give less of a **** what you think if I tried.
 
Atomic Kid said:
You're talking about a presentence investigation, not order, and yes there was a presentence investigation done on Mr Flynn for his sentencing hearing. That investigation contained a lot of lot of nonpublic material and in camera evidence that we weren't able to see but Judge Sullivan could. If you remember that was the hearing where he said after reviewing the list of offenses and evidence that he could not hide his "disgust" for Mr. Flynn's conduct saying he had arguably "sold his country out" and even ask Van Grack if the government ever considered whether Flynn's conduct rose to the level of being treasonous and Van Grack replied that they had not. That's how outraged he was by Flynn's presentence investigation. That's same hearing where he warned Mr Flynn that he wants to proceed with sentencing he would but he could not guarantee Mr Flynn that the sentence he passes will not come without a term of incarceration and he strongly recommended Mr Flynn to return to cooperating with the special counsel to see what more assistance he could provide that could help balance the scales. It was the hearing where he warned Mr Flynn after administering the oath and after the reading out the facts of the case for his allocution that any more false statements would land him in trouble.

https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/121818am-USA-v-Michael-Flynn-Sentencing.pdf
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The problem remains for Van Grack that the presentence left out many, many facts supplied by the DoJ Mandamus filing. I think Van Gracks job was to ensure Flynn turned on Trump in some way or to portray his talks in the worst possible light. While that did succeed initially, the current balance of evidence points to a lot of misleading evidence from Van Grack and the former handlers of the case at DoJ. Simply, there are too many instances of exculpatory evidence that the previous case handlers refused to release even though they were exactly what defense was asking for.

In this I think Sullivan bears some responsibility as well, no matter how convinced he was of Flynn's guilt, he owes every defendant due process and a fair hearing---Sullivan is not doing that.
 
post said:
"Back"? I've been a member here for 14 years. It takes months to recover from exposure to Murdoch-Fox, Trump "alternative facts, washingtonexaminer, theconservativetreehouse, Barr-Powell, Flynn-qanon HONED "belief systems" advanced here as presumed substitutes for well supported facts.

I posed an easily answered question to you, if the "friend of Bill", USA Timothy Shea had presented actual material evidence Judge Sullivan was unfamiliar with. You ignored my question because, in fact, you are unable to answer it with an supported detail that is irrefutable.

You flatter yourself if you assume seasoned DOJ prosecutors "framed" Flynn, deceived Judge Sullivan, and a raving, Foxnews talking head idiot like Atty Powell lobbied Barr by letter and in subsequent conversation, resulting in actual exposure of prosecutorial misconduct!

Just as I thought, I've packed lunch and a change of underwear. I posted primary sources to support my post. You post "secret sauce", beliefs unsupported by links to any supported sources. "Up" your game, or run along, now!

The DOJ prosecutors filed this with Sullivan's court more than six months ago, and Barr-Shea demonstrate so little respect for the court, they filed a motion asking/demanding a dismissal with prejudice, without even withdrawing the DOJ sentencing recommendation!

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.150.0_1.pdf
Case 1:17-cr-00232-EGS Document 150 Filed 01/07/20 Page 17 of 33
View attachment 67289995

...And you sincerely believe the DOJ prosecutors filed the pre-sentencing document above, to Judge Sullivan's court, just three weeks after Sullivan had made this ruling? REALLY? You're (and Barr, Shea, Foxnews, Trump, Powell) demanding that readers believe DOJ prosecutors filed the comments in the image above, just three weeks after Sullivan meticulously shot down the incoherent ravings filed by Atty. Powell, mocking her as he wrapped up his 92 pg. ruling?

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.144.0_3.pdf
View attachment 67289997

Now, point us to the page in USA Shea's "108 pager" where blame is placed on any named DOJ employee who had appeared before Sullivan in this matter, or where Shea even described a specific example of any misconduct, A prosecutor in the Ted Stevens matter was identified through Judge Sullivan's scrutiny and later committed suicide!
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Copy pasta drones that are after hits instead of discussion don't interest me, I didn't answer because I didn't want to, not because I couldn't.

I will give AK credit, he's making his own discussions, not copy pasting vaguely related things to try to make a point. You don't look like you have made an original, thoughtful post in your entire history here---its all this garbage structure that takes entirely too much effort to run down and frankly, you aren't worth the research.
 
OpportunityCost said:
"Report" what a fancy name for trash and lies. Dude, you are more than likely copy/pasting all over the web. I couldn't give less of a **** what you think if I tried.
Click to expand...

Why don't you at least make more of effort to use proper terminology. Seeing as though you usually don't know what it is you're talking about. Looking things up would seem to be a far better alternative for you than just keep continuously pulling stuff out of your ass and passing it off as fact.
 
OpportunityCost said:
"Report" what a fancy name for trash and lies. Dude, you are more than likely copy/pasting all over the web. I couldn't give less of a **** what you think if I tried.
Click to expand...

The case record I am citing, is "trash and lies" and "copy/pasting", but your uninformed opinions, posted again and again with no supporting links, are..... ???

And I'm not the only one who notices how you present in this thread, and in others...:

Atomic Kid said:
Why don't you at least make more of effort to use proper terminology. Seeing as though you usually don't know what it is you're talking about. Looking things up would seem to be a far better alternative for you than just keep continuously pulling stuff out of your ass and passing it off as fact.
Click to expand...

post said:
....

What, exactly was "new" included in USA Timothy Shea's 108 page motion to dismiss? IOW, what was argued in that motion that Judge Sullivan was not already aware of, and had ruled on?......
Click to expand...

Crickets ....

Again, it is futile to attempt informative discussion with posters overcome by a Trumpian "belief system", instead of influenced and driven to post here, by the facts that can be cited with supporting links.


Atomic Kid said:
You're talking about a presentence investigation, not order, and yes there was a presentence investigation done on Mr Flynn for his sentencing hearing. That investigation contained a lot of lot of nonpublic material and in camera evidence that we weren't able to see but Judge Sullivan could. If you remember that was the hearing where he said after reviewing the list of offenses and evidence that he could not hide his "disgust" for Mr. Flynn's conduct saying he had arguably "sold his country out" and even ask Van Grack if the government ever considered whether Flynn's conduct rose to the level of being treasonous and Van Grack replied that they had not. That's how outraged he was by Flynn's presentence investigation. That's same hearing where he warned Mr Flynn that he wants to proceed with sentencing he would but he could not guarantee Mr Flynn that the sentence he passes will not come without a term of incarceration and he strongly recommended Mr Flynn to return to cooperating with the special counsel to see what more assistance he could provide that could help balance the scales. It was the hearing where he warned Mr Flynn after administering the oath and after the reading out the facts of the case for his allocution that any more false statements would land him in trouble.

https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/121818am-USA-v-Michael-Flynn-Sentencing.pdf
Click to expand...

Atty. Gen. Barr replaced USA Jessie Liu, Jessie Liu - Wikipedia
with a trusted Barr soldier, Timothy Shea. Acting USA Shea submitted a 108 page pleading to Judge Sullivan's court claiming "evidence" new to Sidney Powell and her client, Mike Flynn, provided by DOJ to Powell was heretofore unfamiliar to Judge Sullivan.

I am asking (for the second time) that anyone posting in this thread who believes this, direct readers to the page of USA Shea's pleading that actually supports this claim!

I posted the immediately preceding page (pg. 91 of 92) of Judge Sullivan's December, 2019 ruling, already.: (lower page image)
https://www.debatepolitics.com/brea...ase-sets-new-arguments-12.html#post1072389120

This is the next page (the last of 92...) of Judge Sullivan's 12/16/19 ruling, in response to a blizzard of rehashed, contradictory, conspiracy theory plagued pleadings by Flynn's attorney, Powell.:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/redi...cd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.144.0_3.pdf
FlynnSullivanRulingPg92_121719.jpg
 
Grim17 said:
I don't get it. Even if there was concrete evidence that Flynn did lie to the FBI (which there isn't), with all the newly uncovered evidence showing that the FBI and Mueller team used coercion to obtain the guilty plea, acted unethically in investigating and interviewing Flynn without proper predication, the fact that there was a political conflict of interest with Flynn's original legal team who advised him to accept the plead deal, and the fact that the DOJ recognized this and dropped the case against him, isn't it customary in our legal system for the charges to be dropped and the defendant be released regardless of guilt?

When you take into account that the FBI report on their interview with Flynn, didn't even note the question he supposedly lied about, and the 2 investigators that conducted the interview both reported back to their superiors that they didn't believe Flynn had lied or had been deceptive with them, this whole thing makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

.
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Flynn pleaded guilty, you left that out, thought i would help you some with your memory. Innocent men do not plead guilty.
 
Atomic Kid said:
Why don't you at least make more of effort to use proper terminology. Seeing as though you usually don't know what it is you're talking about. Looking things up would seem to be a far better alternative for you than just keep continuously pulling stuff out of your ass and passing it off as fact.
Click to expand...

Why don't you look at the trash he's putting up that is in at least 5 different places on the web. He's a copy/paste content commenter. There is no original thought behind it.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Copy pasta drones that are after hits instead of discussion don't interest me, I didn't answer because I didn't want to, not because I couldn't.

I will give AK credit, he's making his own discussions, not copy pasting vaguely related things to try to make a point. You don't look like you have made an original, thoughtful post in your entire history here---its all this garbage structure that takes entirely too much effort to run down and frankly, you aren't worth the research.
Click to expand...

He's posting copies of legal documents that you obviously have never read.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Copy pasta drones that are after hits instead of discussion don't interest me, I didn't answer because I didn't want to, not because I couldn't.

I will give AK credit, he's making his own discussions, not copy pasting vaguely related things to try to make a point. You don't look like you have made an original, thoughtful post in your entire history here---its all this garbage structure that takes entirely too much effort to run down and frankly, you aren't worth the research.
Click to expand...

OpportunityCost said:
Why don't you look at the trash he's putting up that is in at least 5 different places on the web. He's a copy/paste content commenter. There is no original thought behind it.
Click to expand...

Atomic Kid said:
He's posting copies of legal documents that you obviously have never read.
Click to expand...

The Trumpian distortions have blanketed this entire forum, seemingly in every thread, they're even floating in my coffee cup, but posting case documents and links supporting them, is distasteful to OpportunityCost?

Four posts, from OpportunityCost in a row, and he still ducks this basic question....

Asking you a third time.:

post said:
....

What, exactly was "new" included in USA Timothy Shea's 108 page motion to dismiss? IOW, what was argued in that motion that Judge Sullivan was not already aware of, and had ruled on?......
Click to expand...

Save you time, here's the link to USA Shea's 108 pager, insulting Judge Sullivan and the rule of law!
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.198.0_6.pdf
 
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post said:
The Trumpian distortions have blanketed this entire forum, seemingly in every thread, they're even floating in my coffee cup, but posting case documents and links supporting them, is distasteful to you?

Four posts, from OpportunityCost in a row, and you still duck the basic question....

Asking you a third time.:
Click to expand...

This is why you aren't a serious poster. Whats new in the Shea filings is the exhibits that back what he is saying, but you didn't look at exhibits 3 through 13, did you ?
 
Atomic Kid said:
He's posting copies of legal documents that you obviously have never read.
Click to expand...

I wanted to see how far he would stick his neck out, I've read every page of the Shea filing. He's framed the question as what is in there that Sullivan hasn't ruled on? That's exactly the point, that's in camera information that Sullivan has already read and decided was not exculpatory when it clearly is and aids the defense case--it shows Sullivan engaging in bias by excluding information that was helpful to defense for no discernible reason.

Judges don't like surprises and this case has been full of them, Sullivan is probably just fed up with it, but he still owes Flynn due process.
 
Gaius46 said:
Athanasius68 said:
So Flynn knew he was innocent, because he knew he didn’t discuss sanctions, and would likely also know that any recorded conversations would bear this out but pled guilty anyway to protect his son. Is that it?

Assuming that’s true as I alluded to earlier innocent people take plea deals because it’s often a better deal than going to trial. I just find it interesting that people care about Flynn getting railroaded but don’t give a crap about the non politically connected who get the same raw deal.
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Yes, that's why he plead guilty. Because he knew he was innocent.
Click to expand...
 
OpportunityCost said:
This is why you aren't a serious poster. Whats new in the Shea filings is the exhibits that back what he is saying, but you didn't look at exhibits 3 through 13, did you ?
Click to expand...

It should be easy then, for you to present quotes, with page #'s of examples of what Acting USA Shea pleaded to Judge Sullivan's court, that was, in fact, actually "new" to anyone but Sidney Powell, in Shea's lengthy motion to dismiss Mike Flynn's reaffirmed (under oath) guilty pleas, with prejudice.

IOW, the way a non-Trumpian discussion is supposed to work is, you make a specific claim and posters on the other side of your argument either challenge your claim, or concede and the matter is settled. I'm not making any claim Judge Sullivan has not already covered. Barr and Shea have, with your blessing, and the last thing Sidney Powell and Judge Neomi Rao, AKA Trump-Barr want, is for the DOJ to actually have to defend USA Shea's motion!.... You certainly don't want to!

OpportunityCost said:
.......
Judges don't like surprises and this case has been full of them, Sullivan is probably just fed up with it, but he still owes Flynn due process.
Click to expand...
You indicate you are too obtuse to comprehend what is at stake here.... Sullivan and the rule of law cannot exist in the same space as the obscenity Trump, Barr, Powell, and Judge Rao have inserted into the Flynn prosecution! It's one or the other.... just as it's either the Constitution, or Trump and Trump party.
 
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OpportunityCost said:
I wanted to see how far he would stick his neck out, I've read every page of the Shea filing. He's framed the question as what is in there that Sullivan hasn't ruled on? That's exactly the point, that's in camera information that Sullivan has already read and decided was not exculpatory when it clearly is and aids the defense case--it shows Sullivan engaging in bias by excluding information that was helpful to defense for no discernible reason.

Judges don't like surprises and this case has been full of them, Sullivan is probably just fed up with it, but he still owes Flynn due process.
Click to expand...

Your answers thus far would seem to belie that claim. Flynn is going get his due process just as soon as the case remanded back to Sullivan's court so that he make his rulings. Flynn's lawyer was the trying leap frog that process and she hasn't presented anything Mueller, the DOJ, or Sullivan didn't have all along, or haven't seen already. That's why his Brady motion was denied despite his lawyer's best efforts to misrepresent or distort selective portions of it.
 
Atomic Kid said:
Your answers thus far would seem to belie that claim. Flynn is going get his due process just as soon as the case remanded back to Sullivan's court so that he make his rulings. Flynn's lawyer was the trying leap frog that process and she hasn't presented anything Mueller, the DOJ, or Sullivan didn't have all along, or haven't seen already. That's why his Brady motion was denied despite his lawyer's best efforts to misrepresent or distort selective portions of it.
Click to expand...

Which ignores a basic point, the defense didn't...
 
post said:
It should be easy then, for you to present quotes, with page #'s of examples of what Acting USA Shea pleaded to Judge Sullivan's court, that was, in fact, actually "new" to anyone but Sidney Powell, in Shea's lengthy motion to dismiss Mike Flynn's reaffirmed (under oath) guilty pleas, with prejudice.

IOW, the way a non-Trumpian discussion is supposed to work is, you make a specific claim and posters on the other side of your argument either challenge your claim, or concede and the matter is settled. I'm not making any claim Judge Sullivan has not already covered. Barr and Shea have, with your blessing, and the last thing Sidney Powell and Judge Neomi Rao, AKA Trump-Barr want, is for the DOJ to actually have to defend USA Shea's motion!.... You certainly don't want to!


You indicate you are too obtuse to comprehend what is at stake here.... Sullivan and the rule of law cannot exist in the same space as the obscenity Trump, Barr, Powell, and Judge Rao have inserted into the Flynn prosecution! It's one or the other.... just as it's either the Constitution, or Trump and Trump party.
Click to expand...

Whats new? Jeez almost all of it from those exhibit numbers. Its almost like you didn't even look, don't know what you are talking about and just copy/paste the same babble over and over again without examining anything....
 
Atomic Kid said:
Your answers thus far would seem to belie that claim. Flynn is going get his due process just as soon as the case remanded back to Sullivan's court so that he make his rulings. Flynn's lawyer was the trying leap frog that process and she hasn't presented anything Mueller, the DOJ, or Sullivan didn't have all along, or haven't seen already. That's why his Brady motion was denied despite his lawyer's best efforts to misrepresent or distort selective portions of it.
Click to expand...

USA Shea's footnote in an exhibit he submitted in support of a Barr sanctioned, DOJ filing of a motion to dismiss Flynn's guilty plea(s) with prejudice,
a motion to dismiss that has dazzled the cult of Trump.:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.198.0_6.pdf
FlynnStatementsNotMaterialToCFGperShea.jpg

USA Shea's minimizing footnote 6, versus (contradicted by?) this, in Exhibit 3:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.198.3_1.pdf
FlynnSheaFootnoteOmitsCrossfireNatSecPg1.jpg

FlynnSheaFootnoteOmitsCrossfireNatSec.jpg
 
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OpportunityCost said:
Whats new? Jeez almost all of it from those exhibit numbers. Its almost like you didn't even look, don't know what you are talking about and just copy/paste the same babble over and over again without examining anything....
Click to expand...

USA Shea described "new material" allegedly unearthed by Barr's other "lap dog", USA Jeffrey Jensen, but did not actually include any of it specifically in his motion to dismiss.

Sidney Powell, however, who was fed the same information once Barr's DOJ became Flynn's defense co-counsel, filed this, on July 10, actually contradicting Shea's May 7 pleading.:

Trump put Flynn in a position not requiring Senate vetting/confirmation, obviously because Flynn had failed at DIA and Obama had warned Trump.:
Tashina Gauhar's January 25, 2017 notes, bottom of page 4 of 14: ..simply the need to settle FBI CI theory NOW NSA Flynn wasn't a Putin poodle.:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.237.1_1.pdf
FlynnTashinaGauhar012517FBIneededToConfirnFlynnWasNot.jpg

Versus Shea :
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.198.0_6.pdf
FlynnSheaBasedSolelyOnLoganViolation.jpg

Do you really agree with Trump, Barr, and Flynn that under the circumstances, FBI CI "veered out of its lane"? If so, why even have FBI CI ?
 
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yankintx said:
Flynn pleaded guilty, you left that out, thought i would help you some with your memory. Innocent men do not plead guilty.
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I think you need to read my post again... Specifically, the 2nd sentence where I said:

"...with all the newly uncovered evidence showing that the FBI and Mueller team used coercion to obtain the guilty plea,​

Now, you were saying?

.
 
post said:
USA Shea's footnote in an exhibit he submitted in support of a Barr sanctioned, DOJ filing of a motion to dismiss Flynn's guilty plea(s) with prejudice,
a motion to dismiss that has dazzled the cult of Trump.:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.198.0_6.pdf
View attachment 67290062

USA Shea's minimizing footnote 6, versus (contradicted by?) this, in Exhibit 3:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.198.3_1.pdf
View attachment 67290065

View attachment 67290059
Click to expand...

Your focus is moot, it was decided well beforehand that Flynn was not being directed by Russian interests and was not a security threat and was not charged under any US law as such.

Make a point and quit grandstanding.
 
post said:
USA Shea described "new material" allegedly unearthed by Barr's other "lap dog", USA Jeffrey Jensen, but did not actually include any of it specifically in his motion to dismiss.

Sidney Powell, however, who was fed the same information once Barr's DOJ became Flynn's defense co-counsel, filed this, on July 10, actually contradicting Shea's May 7 pleading.:

Trump put Flynn in a position not requiring Senate vetting/confirmation, obviously because Flynn had failed at DIA and Obama had warned Trump.:
Tashina Gauhar's January 25, 2017 notes, bottom of page 4 of 14: ..simply the need to settle FBI CI theory NOW NSA Flynn wasn't a Putin poodle.:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.237.1_1.pdf
View attachment 67290071

Versus Shea :
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592/gov.uscourts.dcd.191592.198.0_6.pdf
View attachment 67290072

Do you really agree with Trump, Barr, and Flynn that under the circumstances, FBI CI "veered out of its lane"? If so, why even have FBI CI ?
Click to expand...

So your first lie was that none of the material in the DoJ filing was new, it was. Strike one.
You focus on the Logan Act when there hasn't been a conviction on it and no new charge of it in over a hundred years----its a political game to gain leverage to investigate, which you don't seem to see. Strike Two.

The FBI CI veered out of its lane by using coercion for a plea, not informing the court of that coercion, conducting interrogation without WH knowledge of its own personnel, seeking to evade WH counsel advice to said interrogation, and hiding the end work products from the WH. They acted like a rogue unit, hiding what they were doing and not reporting their findings.
 
Grim17 said:
I think you need to read my post again... Specifically, the 2nd sentence where I said:

"...with all the newly uncovered evidence showing that the FBI and Mueller team used coercion to obtain the guilty plea,​

Now, you were saying?

.
Click to expand...

I was innocent men dont plead guilty. I stand by that one.

What evedince?
 
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