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Ill. Governor taken into custody, Obama's seat part of inquery...

Yea...sort of like Alaska, Stevens and Palin huh... :spin:

Way to try and score political points and FAIL.

Illinois, and Chicago in general, has a systemic issue with corruption going back beyond just this governor and beyond even the past 3 years.

I'm sure Ikari, or Tucker, who both seems far more versed in this could explain it in further detail and just how far reaching it goes.

You however want to point at one person serving in the state obviously guilty of things (Stevens), and one Palin whose one main accusation is still pending and can be argued on both sides, and try to act like that somehow proves its any where near the level of Illinois politics for decades and decades.

So, are you actually asserting that based on those two examplse that Alaska has a similar systemic corruption problem that Illinois has...? Or was it just a really ****ty attempt to score political points that is laughable outside of a few typical fanboys?
 
With so much Chicago bashing I feel this desire to defend my city....






Then I go to do it and I got nothin' :(
 
With so much Chicago bashing I feel this desire to defend my city....

Then I go to do it and I got nothin' :(

I was born and raised in Niles, just a bit outside of Chicago. I love the city itself, it has some of the best things in the world. Science and nature Museum, Shedd Aquarium...one of the best aquarium's in the US. Field museum, art; in total Chicago has some of the best in the world I dare say. Chicago in and of itself is pretty awesome, except for the cabbies whom I believe are all totally insane and have no regard for driving laws.

But when it comes to the politics, it's a **** hole.
 
First off, threatening the Tribune I thought was Daley's job.
Why would Daley threaten the Trib? They always endorse him :mrgreen:

Secondly, Illinois had better not ever...EVER buy the Cubs. The Tribune is bad enough, don't need to go from bad to worse. I need a rich, crazy Texan to buy the Cubs. Someone willing to splurge for a good team. I want to hear people say "I'm tired of the Cubs making the World Series, they're always there!".
Tribune Co. owner Sam Zell wanted to sell the the Cubs franchise and Wrigley Field separately. More moolah that way. The Illinios Sports Authority, owner of Cellular Field where the White Sox play, considered buying Wrigley Field and leasing it back to the new Cubs team owner.

Zell has whittled offers for the Cubs down to the three highest bidders. Reportedly, he will accept one of these offers by the end of this week.
 
This was not the "Fitzmas" that some were hoping for.
 
I was born and raised in Niles, just a bit outside of Chicago. I love the city itself, it has some of the best things in the world. Science and nature Museum, Shedd Aquarium...one of the best aquarium's in the US. Field museum, art; in total Chicago has some of the best in the world I dare say. Chicago in and of itself is pretty awesome, except for the cabbies whom I believe are all totally insane and have no regard for driving laws.

But when it comes to the politics, it's a **** hole.

I just PM'd you. I grew up in Niles as well.
 
How many IL governors does this put into jail? Illinois, thanks to Chicago, is probably the most corrupt body politic in the nation. No one runs corruption and underhanded dealings like Chicago, no one. Of course Obama is dirty as well, you can't come up through Chicago clean; that is the one truth of Illinois politics. You can not come up through Chicago clean.

Chicago-style politics as usual - this upstanding gov cannot even handle replacing Obama without wanting a kickback. That's why Obama was so happy there, his kind of politics, down and dirty. :lol:
 
Reading some of the crap this guy has done:

He said Blagojevich was looking to pull $8 million in funding for a children's hospital after the hospital's chief executive officer did not give a $50,000 contribution to the governor's campaign.

it was expected that Blagojevich would soon sign into law a bill that would direct a percentage of casino revenue to the horse racing industry -- a bill supported by someone who contributed $100,000.

"To let that bill be signed, to me, would be very, very troubling," Fitzgerald said.

In a 76-page affidavit, federal authorities say wiretaps caught Blagojevich conspiring to sell or trade the vacant Senate seat in exchange for financial benefits for himself and his wife, Patti.

The governor also often weighed the option of appointing himself to the Senate seat, saying he was "stuck" at governor and might have access to more resources as a senator than as a governor, the affidavit says. A Senate seat could also help him remake his image ahead of a possible presidential run in 2016. "If ... they're not going to offer anything of any value, then I might just take it," he said in one conversation.

Blagojevich allegedly directed Harris to tell Tribune officials that state assistance would be withheld unless members of the Chicago Tribune's editorial board were fired. The Illinois governor saw them as "driving discussion of his possible impeachment," the affidavit said.

"Our recommendation is fire all those [expletive] people, get 'em the [expletive] out of there and get us some editorial support," the governor allegedly said in one phone call.

Federal authorities also allege the governor and Harris schemed with others -- including convicted real estate developer Antoin "Tony" Rezko -- to obtain financial benefit

U.S. attorney: Blagojevich has taken us to 'new low' - CNN.com

I say hang the treasonous bastard!
 
Way to try and score political points and FAIL.

Illinois, and Chicago in general, has a systemic issue with corruption going back beyond just this governor and beyond even the past 3 years.

I'm sure Ikari, or Tucker, who both seems far more versed in this could explain it in further detail and just how far reaching it goes.

You however want to point at one person serving in the state obviously guilty of things (Stevens), and one Palin whose one main accusation is still pending and can be argued on both sides, and try to act like that somehow proves its any where near the level of Illinois politics for decades and decades.

So, are you actually asserting that based on those two examplse that Alaska has a similar systemic corruption problem that Illinois has...? Or was it just a really ****ty attempt to score political points that is laughable outside of a few typical fanboys?

I don't need to score points from anyone and could really care less whether or not you think my point is valid. Really. I care less.

So, simply put all I did was shine the light on the same type of guilt by association being caste in the other direction. Don't like it? Don't respond.
 
Way to try and score political points and FAIL.

Illinois, and Chicago in general, has a systemic issue with corruption going back beyond just this governor and beyond even the past 3 years.

I'm sure Ikari, or Tucker, who both seems far more versed in this could explain it in further detail and just how far reaching it goes.

You however want to point at one person serving in the state obviously guilty of things (Stevens), and one Palin whose one main accusation is still pending and can be argued on both sides, and try to act like that somehow proves its any where near the level of Illinois politics for decades and decades.

So, are you actually asserting that based on those two examplse that Alaska has a similar systemic corruption problem that Illinois has...? Or was it just a really ****ty attempt to score political points that is laughable outside of a few typical fanboys?

In rsixing's defense, I don't see the use of "sort of" as equating to "a similar systemic corruption problem that Illinois has...." I really don't.
 
Oh, I'm sorry...

I must've been confused. See, I thought we were on a debate forum about politics. You know, one where someone makes a statement and other people respond to those statements. Sometimes, that response is critical of the other persons statement because they poster doesn't agree with it or because they feel the information is poorly proposed.

Silly me.

Well, I guess for you its a good thing this isn't a debate forum about politics. Or else I would point out how you didn't "Shine a light on the same type of guilt be association" at all. Because by showing two people, one of which convicted and one of which isn't, and trying to equate that to just one more arrest in a decades old lieneage of corrpution is not "the same type". That's kind of like pointing to someone that has cancer and also eats carrots and going "See, carrots cause cancer just like smoking does. Its the same type of thing!". I mean, if it was a debate forum I would point that out...though I guess if it was a debate site I wouldn't need to point that out because that's what my previous post kind of pointed out...but since its not I guess its not really needed right?

IF this was a debate site as well, I'd point out you're the silly poster here trying to score political points and make this a "left vs right" thing, as evident by your talk about "the other direction" in your post I guess I shouldn't respond to since we're not on a debate site. You see, I see the OP talking about corruption in Illinois politics, not illinois democrat politics. I see Ikari talking about corrupt Illinois and Chicago politicians, not corrupt Illinois and Chicago democrats. Rebelbuc doesn't even talk about the democrats Obama is around, but Chicago.

If you were interested in being anything other than a partisan hack here, and actually read the thread (wait, maybe this isn't a site for reading since apparently you also don't think its a site for debating), you'd see the discussion wasn't about "republican" or "Democrat" but "Illinois Politicians". Which, regardless of party, Obama is one and thus he's mentioned. Republicans are also part of the systemic corruption of Illinois politics for ages on end.

So you shed light on nothing. You made an asanine point because your Spidey like "partisan-sense" went off and you thought "OH OH OH OH OH I can insult Palin and stick it to those mean old republicans!" This is even evident in your next post wanting so badly to have it "cast in the other direction", when in reality no one was casting it in any direction save for towards Illinois. But god forbid your most wonderful and precious Obama be critizied even slightly...if that happens we must attack! We must make some comment, even if it is as close to hitting the actual point or topic of the thread as Virginia is to California.

I would say all that if this was a debate site, but apparently according to you its not. Apparently I'm not supposed to counter asanine, worthless points you make in a debate type style. I'm just supposed to not respond because apparently I was mistaken I was on a forum called "DEBATE Politics".

My apologize rsixing. Continue to enjoy "Soapbox Politics where no one may dare say I'm wrong".
 
In rsixing's defense, I don't see the use of "sort of" as equating to "a similar systemic corruption problem that Illinois has...." I really don't.

Its not anything like unless you're trying to tell me he literally meant it just "oh, corruption equals corruption".

Does someone that has strep throat "sort of" feeling like someone that has cancer? I mean, they're both sick so it must be "sort of" feel alike. If I made a comparison between those two things you'd take that as a legitimate, honest, attempt at comparing right?

Two alaskans, one of which convicted the other that is still questionable, is attempting to be compared to a decades old cesspool of corruption at every level of government in both parties in another state? To me, that's like trying to compare strep throat to cancer. Which tells me either he's mindlessly throwing it out there going "Oh oh oh, they're picking on my dear Obama so I must counter attack, smear Palin!" OR he knows that they're not on par in any real way but chooses to ignore it instead to try and get a shot at republicans in for the sake of taking the shot.

Either one is trying to "score partisan points". Unless he'd like to try and show me legitimately how Alaska is even "sort of" on par with Illinois in regards to corruption.
 
Typical Chicago politics.

That's the way things get done in Chicago. Politics. Business. They have their own way of doing things.

I live an hour north of Chicago. Even here, when business matters are at hand, the term "the Chicago way" is a way of saying bribery is involved.
 
I have to assume that Blagojevich is guilty of something at this point - the FBI doesn't just go around arresting governors for nothing. Assuming so, I have to say that the arrogance that is shown by his actions leads me to believe that such scumbags think that they are beyond the law... that they can't get caught! Although Obama does not appear to be involved here, this caper does put a spotlight on the cesspool from which Obama obtained his political power!

This whole thing is ridiculous, I'm glad this fool was arrested.

However, Obama has nothing to do with it. He didn't "obtain his political power" from the governor, he got it from the people of Illinois, who also have nothing to do with this.
 
I wonder how Patrick Fitzgerald's indictment against the governor will be received by those who thought his indictment against Scooter Libby was a joke. Will you claim that these allegations are a joke too? Or did Fitzgerald turn into a reputable US Attorney since he stopped being the special prosecutor?

Were there people calling the Fitz investigation and prosecution a "joke?" I don't think so, but if there were they were being unreasonable and don't represent what reasonable thought about the matter.

I know I criticze Fitz for ever going as far as he did because he didn't find enough evidence that any federal law had been violated when Plame's id was disclosed and, worse, he knew before the investigation started the identity of the initial leaker, Richard Armitage.

I don't see this situation implicating Obama. I really don't.

And this is based on...??

You'd think that the junior Senator, current President-elect would have some influence, no?
 
Typical Chicago politics.

That's the way things get done in Chicago. Politics. Business. They have their own way of doing things.

I live an hour north of Chicago. Even here, when business matters are at hand, the term "the Chicago way" is a way of saying bribery is involved.

I really hope we never elect a President who comes out of the Chicago political machine.
 
In rsixing's defense, I don't see the use of "sort of" as equating to "a similar systemic corruption problem that Illinois has...." I really don't.

Actually, perhaps let me be a bit more exact to explain why I had an issue with it. And it was further backed up in his next post showing what i thought was true...he was just trying to get back the "other side".

Lets say you have a kid in a family. Lets say that a load of his brothers and sisters all have spent time in jail. Then lets say both his dad has spent time in jail and brothers/sisters on both his mom and his dad's side have spent time in jail. His cousins as well. Then lets say even his grand parents and some of their siblings have spent time in jail.

Now, not EVERYONE in the family has a history of it...but a great great many of them do, and not just his immediete family but his extneded as well.

That does not necessarily mean that that kid is going to end up doing criminal things...but it may make those familiar with that family have doubts about him.

That family is kind of like Illinois politics, and Obama is the kid. Doesn't mean that Obama is corrupt, or has some dark streaks from his time there...but it makes some familiar with Illinois politics have some doubts.

Then lets have another kid, whose parents, siblings, and the majority of their familiy has stayed out of trouble. Perhaps a few misdameanors here or there but nothing real bad save for say an uncle close to the family that has been to jail.

That family is kind of like Alaska in comparison to Illinois politics, with the uncle being Stevens and the kids being Palin.

They're not "sort of alike" in any real way save for a common link that at least SOMEONE in the family has had some big law problems. But that's like saying someone with 1 dollar is "sort of" like someone with 100 dollars because he has at least 1 dollar in common with the 100.

No one was playing "guilt by assossiation" with Obama to just this governor. All the talk was about "Illinois Politics" in general. And none were saying Obama WAS guilty, but it made you wonder about him because SO MUCH of Illinois political structure is filled with corruption. That isn't "sort of" like condemning Palin due to the corruption of one single person in her state.
 
Yea...sort of like Alaska, Stevens and Palin huh... :spin:

Huh? The comment you were responding to was citing Chicago politics as a cesspool from which Obama derived her political power and success.

So you respond with, "yeah...sort of like Alaska, Stevens, and Palin"???

What is "sort of like" it?

Is Alaska politics generally a cesspool of political corruption like what we generally associate with Chicago? Or are you saying that Palin derived her political power from a cesspool of politics in Alaska? Other?

Seems to me that neither is an accurate "sort of." Specifically, Palin derived her political success from running against the Old Guard.

Am I wrong?

Whereas Obama derived his political power from the traditional Chicago-style machine politics getting involved with Trinity to get him black power politics street cred and Ayers to get the radical leftist politics street cred among other various associations which only served his political interests.
 
And this is based on...??

You'd think that the junior Senator, current President-elect would have some influence, no?

What basis is needed?

How does Obama have influence on this, he said the decision is solely up to the governor. Governors and senators are unlinked unless a successor needs to be chosen.
 
This whole thing is ridiculous, I'm glad this fool was arrested.

However, Obama has nothing to do with it. He didn't "obtain his political power" from the governor, he got it from the people of Illinois, who also have nothing to do with this.

And from what I'm reading he's not saying that the governor helped him obtain his political power, unless you think by "cesspool" he's refering to a singular person instead of the plural which the term would usually be used for.

And if it means what it seems his implication is, Illinois politics in general, then that's another story and you're simply wrong. Obama is closely tied with the Illinois political machine and got his start with the help of Chicago and Illinois political figures. Does that mean Obama had anything to do with what this governor did? Not at all. Does that mean Obama is corrupt or has some black marks on him like MUCH of the rest of the Illinois political landscape? Not necessarily. Does it make some of those that are knowledgeable about the political corruption throughout illinois, on BOTH sides, wonder about the likihood of a man coming up through Chicago and somehow not having any or the usual marks on you that people in that machine tend to get? Yes.
 
And from what I'm reading he's not saying that the governor helped him obtain his political power, unless you think by "cesspool" he's refering to a singular person instead of the plural which the term would usually be used for.

And if it means what it seems his implication is, Illinois politics in general, then that's another story and you're simply wrong. Obama is closely tied with the Illinois political machine and got his start with the help of Chicago and Illinois political figures. Does that mean Obama had anything to do with what this governor did? Not at all. Does that mean Obama is corrupt or has some black marks on him like MUCH of the rest of the Illinois political landscape? Not necessarily. Does it make some of those that are knowledgeable about the political corruption throughout illinois, on BOTH sides, wonder about the likihood of a man coming up through Chicago and somehow not having any or the usual marks on you that people in that machine tend to get? Yes.

I should have specified that it was not the person I was quoting that I was referring to when I said "obtaining power from the governor." I've already heard this idea on other forum sites, which is also ridiculous.
 
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