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US successfully tests anti-missile shield

shiznit770 said:
Does this mean you are pretending the missile shield is only for our nation now?
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You're dodging, and poorly.

Nothing in the article I posted or in any of my statements makes any mention of what nations the US NMD is intended to protect -- and it CERTAINLY makes no mention of Israel.

So, I ask aagin:
How does the NMD affect Iran sending a missile towards Israel after they attack Iran's nuclear program?
 
shiznit770 said:
Does this mean you are pretending the missile shield is only for our nation now?
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You going to help me out or not? I asked nicely.
 
Goobieman said:
You're dodging, and poorly.

Nothing in the article I posted or in any of my statements makes any mention of what nations the US NMD is intended to protect -- and it CERTAINLY makes no mention of Israel.

So, I ask aagin:
How does the NMD affect Iran sending a missile towards Israel after they attack Iran's nuclear program?
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It is well known fact that Israel is included under the missile shield. Any successful technology in this area will be shared/sold with Israel.

first paragraph
The U.S. military is set to run a "realistic" test Friday of a system built to knock out long-range missiles that could be fired by North Korea or Iran, the Pentagon said.
U.S. military sets high-stakes missile-shield test
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and the first paragraph of the other source is virtually identical.

JMak said:
You going to help me out or not? I asked nicely.
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Do you really lack the capacity to click on a link and read? Or are you just trying to bait me.
 
shiznit770 said:
Do you really lack the capacity to click on a link and read? Or are you just trying to bait me.
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So you never had any intention of following through when you posted an offer to assist someone?

So you're a liar then...
 
JMak said:
So you never had any intention of following through when you posted an offer to assist someone?

So you're a liar then...
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Why are you here JMak? If you're going to distort my words and call me a liar at least do it with something of substance. This is petty, even for you.
 
shiznit770 said:
It is well known fact that Israel is included under the missile shield. Any successful technology in this area will be shared/sold with Israel.
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Well known fact, eh?
The you should have no problems showing where the plan for the NMD or the NMD in Europe is designed or intended to - or even has the capability to - protect Israel.

I'd be particulaly interested in the operational parameters that actually allow such a thing.
 
shiznit770 said:
Why are you here JMak? If you're going to distort my words and call me a liar at least do it with something of substance. This is petty, even for you.
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Says he who posted:

Does this mean you are pretending the missile shield is only for our nation now?
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Goobieman said:
Well known fact, eh?
The you should have no problems showing where the plan for the NMD or the NMD in Europe is designed or intended to - or even has the capability to - protect Israel.

I'd be particulaly interested in the operational parameters that actually allow such a thing.
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You're right, Israel is not officially included in the defense blanket. They just get access to all of the US missile defense technology and funding from our congress. The proof that US developed Missile defense systems have protected Israel is glaringly obvious. They currently use the Arrow II, mostly developed and paid for by the US. Every year part of our defense budget goes towards joint missile defense endeavors of Israel and the US.

My point is that there is no reasonable threat to the US where these missiles would be useful, except in the case of a counterattack to US aggression. Israel is an entirely different matter. They have have a legitimate claim for the need of these missiles.
 
shiznit770 said:
You're right, Israel is not officially included in the defense blanket. They just get access to all of the US missile defense technology and funding from our congress. The proof that US developed Missile defense systems have protected Israel is glaringly obvious. They currently use the Arrow II, mostly developed and paid for by the US. Every year part of our defense budget goes towards joint missile defense endeavors of Israel and the US.

My point is that there is no reasonable threat to the US where these missiles would be useful, except in the case of a counterattack to US aggression. Israel is an entirely different matter. They have have a legitimate claim for the need of these missiles.
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For the third time people: why do you think interceptor technology is limited to ICBMs?
 
shiznit770 said:
You're right, Israel is not officially included in the defense blanket.
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So you agree that your scenario has nothing to do with the NMD. Thanks.

They just get access to all of the US missile defense technology and funding from our congress
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I havent heard or read anythig that supports the idea that Israel has been given access to NMD tech. Please provide a citation.

The proof that US developed Missile defense systems have protected Israel is glaringly obvious. They currently use the Arrow II, mostly developed and paid for by the US. Every year part of our defense budget goes towards joint missile defense endeavors of Israel and the US.
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You're confused. The NMD has nothing to do with tactical area-defense missle systems like the Patriot/Arrow.

My point is that there is no reasonable threat to the US where these missiles would be useful, except...
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...in the cae of NK or Iran or any number of other contries developing delivery systams that can reach the US or Europe.

...in the case of a counterattack to US aggression.
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This position is unsupportable, as noted above.
 
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Goobieman said:
So you agree that your scenario has nothing to do with the NMD. Thanks.

I havent heard or read anythig that supports the idea that Israel has been given access to NMD tech. Please provide a citation.

You're confused. The NMD has nothing to do with tactical area-defense missle systems like the Patriot/Arrow.
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U.S. Missile Defense Radar in Israel to Become Operational Next Month

The X-band radar would detect and track airborne targets at greater range and with better precision than current Israeli systems, thereby improving the odds of Israel’s Arrow interceptors striking incoming missile targets, Defense News reported in August. Israel is particularly concerned about Iran’s missile capabilities.

U.S. Installs Missile Defense Radar in Israel
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If this isn't evidence I think you need to specifically define what you consider related to NMD and what is not.
 
shiznit770 said:
U.S. Missile Defense Radar in Israel to Become Operational Next Month

If this isn't evidence I think you need to specifically define what you consider related to NMD and what is not.
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This is evidence of something Goobie didn't disagree with, i.e., Goobie didn't disagree with your assertion that Israel receives missile defense technology and systems like Arrow.

He is saying that MD systems like Arrow/Patriot are different in kind from a NMD system.

Are you arguing that theatre-wide air defense systems are associated with NMD?

I'd agree if you were saying that missile defense is a layered one with multiple systems being coordinated to provide missile defense (local/theatre system, sea-borne radar w/Block SAMs, airborne shoot-down systems, ICBM interceptors, etc). But theatre-specific systems, while probably having some application within the larger defense umbrella, really ain't the NMD. It is but a layer.
 
shiznit770 said:
U.S. Missile Defense Radar in Israel to Become Operational Next Month
If this isn't evidence I think you need to specifically define what you consider related to NMD and what is not.
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This is exidence of a missile defense radar, and nothng more. It doesnt tie this radar to the NMD, nor is it evidence that we are giving Israel technology related to the NMD. X-band radars are used for several ABM systems, and so the installation of an X-band radar isnt necessarily tied in any way to the US NMD.
U.S. Deploys Radar, Troops To Israel - Defense News

Then, look at your source:
...thereby improving the odds of Israel’s Arrow interceptors striking incoming missile targets...
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These aren't NMD interceptors, these are theater- and area-defense interceptors designed to stop IRBM and tactical battlefield missiles, not the ICBMs the NMD is designed to engage.
Arrow TMD

Nothing you've posted supprts the idea that the NMD is intended to stop a residual second strike, nor negates the claim that it is intended to do anything other than stop a limited-scale strike from some rogue nation.
 
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JMak said:
I'd agree if you were saying that missile defense is a layered one with multiple systems being coordinated to provide missile defense (local/theatre system, sea-borne radar w/Block SAMs, airborne shoot-down systems, ICBM interceptors, etc). But theatre-specific systems, while probably having some application within the larger defense umbrella, really ain't the NMD. It is but a layer.
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Yes. The NMD is a specific system with a specific role within the BMD umbrella.
 
JMak said:
This is evidence of something Goobie didn't disagree with, i.e., Goobie didn't disagree with your assertion that Israel receives missile defense technology and systems like Arrow.

He is saying that MD systems like Arrow/Patriot are different in kind from a NMD system.

Are you arguing that theatre-wide air defense systems are associated with NMD?

I'd agree if you were saying that missile defense is a layered one with multiple systems being coordinated to provide missile defense (local/theatre system, sea-borne radar w/Block SAMs, airborne shoot-down systems, ICBM interceptors, etc). But theatre-specific systems, while probably having some application within the larger defense umbrella, really ain't the NMD. It is but a layer.
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I would argue that the entire program as a whole is not without merit. It is certain elements of it that are unnecessary, like providing defense in the form of interceptors and radar to other countries(Poland/Czech/Israel). These parts of the program promote political divisiveness with essentially no gain for the US.
 
shiznit770 said:
It is certain elements of it that are unnecessary, like providing defense in the form of interceptors and radar to other countries(Poland/Czech/Israel). These parts of the program promote political divisiveness with essentially no gain for the US.
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How dare we provide protection for our allies!! We should let them sort out their own affairs because we know that it never ends up being our problem too, mein fuhrer/comrade. :roll:
 
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scourge99 said:
How dare we provide protection for our allies!! We should let them sort out their own affairs because we know how well that works. :roll:
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You're right, lets give Israel the best damn missile defense system money can buy. That way when they attack Iran's nuclear facilities, Iran won't be able to counter-attack! I wonder what will happen when you corner an extremist country and provoke them? Meh, whatever happens we can just blame it on Islam again, right?
 
shiznit770 said:
You're right, lets give Israel the best damn missile defense system money can buy. That way when they attack Iran's nuclear facilities, Iran won't be able to counter-attack! I wonder what will happen when you corner an extremist country and provoke them? Meh, whatever happens we can just blame it on Islam again, right?
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Is everything black and white with you? We either have to give Israel and our allies EVERYTHING or nothing.

You arguments are becoming childish.
 
scourge99 said:
Is everything black and white with you? We either have to give Israel and our allies EVERYTHING or nothing.

You arguments are becoming childish.
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When we are incurring such a large debt I am critical of any program that does not bring significant gain to us. How are my arguments becoming childish? There is a big difference between coming to the aid of an Allie and preemptively arming them. I certainly do not want to be drawn into a war with Iran, do you?
 
shiznit770 said:
When we are incurring such a large debt I am critical of any program that does not bring significant gain to us.
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apathy incurs its own debt.

How are my arguments becoming childish?
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You presented a false dichotomy. That was childish.

There is a big difference between coming to the aid of an Allie and preemptively arming them. I certainly do not want to be drawn into a war with Iran, do you?
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that's an impossible question to answer with the overly simplified scenario you haved posed. There are just causes for war and Iran is more than capable of instigating such.
 
Goobieman said:
However, the NMD is intended to keep screwballs like Iran and North Korea from launching a missle or two (up to 50, in its final form) -- Rogue States who are nowhere as predictable.
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Explain how North Korea and Iran are not predictable. Try to use something other then mere statements they have given. Arguments based on their desire to stay in power and historical actions are generally good tools.
 
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