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Atheists take aim at Christmas

No, Muslims just bomb and kill you if you don't convert.

Seriously, looking at the history of CONQUEST that Muslims engaged in for the purpose of converting people, making this comparison is not the best to make.

Islam is also a missionary religion. They don't go door to door in the US because it is too dangerous to do so. I am no fan of the ignorance of Mormons and JWs. Once, a Mormon missionary called me a "Mary Worshipper." I slammed the door in his face. (not saying this was the best reaction, but I was already annoyed because he knocked on my door while I was watching a US-Mexico World Cup qualifying match.)

Yeah, ALL Muslims do that. That must be why it happens so much in our country or with the regular non-extremist Muslims. :roll:
 
Yeah, ALL Muslims do that. That must be why it happens so much in our country or with the regular non-extremist Muslims. :roll:

I always wondered what the constant sound was. Now I know it's the boom from the 1.1 billion bombs going off by all the worlds Muslims.
 
I always wondered what the constant sound was. Now I know it's the boom from the 1.1 billion bombs going off by all the worlds Muslims.

There are no Muslims left anymore... didn't you know that they were all suicide bombers?
 
I live in a non-Christian country and people wish others Merry Christmas here all the time around December 25, especially in urban areas. It is celebrated in schools all over the country and many families exchange gifts. Most people here are Buddhist-Daoist. This claptrap about how the holiday does not include non-Christians is a load of crap.
The religious intonnation of christ birthday has absolutely no meaning nor significance towards non-christians that nevertheless celebrate for the sake that A) it's a day off (in Taiwan it used to be) and B) it's another excuse to go on vacation.
 
Atheists take aim at Christmas - CNN.com

You can see a picture of the sign at the link.

I agree with the Atheists right to display their own religious message next to the nativity scene but I don't agree with the way they are doing it. There is no reason for them to blatantly attack religion in their message. If they would have written the sign describing their believes and the purpose of Winter Solstice without the attacks then there would no issue here.

Do you think the atheists went to far with the sign? Should they not be able to place a sign at all?

I would love to agree with the Atheists here but they are making it hard.
They want to place a sign there, fine, they ought to be able to place whatever sign they want to. But seriously, do they have to place such a rediculous and pathetic sign there? What did the nativity scene do anything to them?
Since when did winter solstice have anything to do with atheistic non-belief anyway? That's paganism.

Just rediculous.
 
There's no way you cold have concluded that from my comments. I commented that wishing someone a Merry Christmas is explicitly including them in the holiday.

You drew from that that I was saying screw everyone else.

There's no way a good faith reading of my comments gets you to such a conclusion.

Yet another gross caricature from you.

Actually, I got the same thing from your comment. And it was no gross caricature. I am not Christian. I do not want your missionary work. I am happy with my faith (Jewish). Here's a good definition of missionary, from wikipedia: "A missionary is a member of a religion who works to convert those who do not share the missionary's faith". Sorry. That's selling. I'm not buying. Saying "Merry Christmas" to me, when you know my religion, without regards to my beliefs is not being inclusive, no matter how badly you want to believe it. It's not caring about my beliefs. If you say "Merry Christmas" and do not know that I am Jewish, I will thank you and wish you the same...you are wishing me well. If you do the same and know I am Jewish, and are doing so because you want to anyway, you are not having any respect for my beliefs and are not being inclusive at all.
 
Again, obviously, Christians, and for that matter, nearly 60% of Americans, don't see Happy Holidays as including them (and I'm inferring that from the fact that 60+% of Americans prefer Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays).

And this is an ad populum logical fallacy. It is irrelevant.


Because it is symbolic of something larger. Whether it's eliminating Christian symbols from the public square, school prayer, etc., it's an attack on Christianity.

Now, you are bringing in red herrings. Saying "Happy Holidays" is wishing someone well for the holiday season. If you have a problem with that, then that is YOUR PROBLEM, not the problem of the speaker.
 
Oh, and personally, I couldn't give a hoot whether someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays", or whatever, as long as no one is forced to to say either. If you are Christian, and I know it, I will wish you "Merry Christmas". If I do not, I will wish you "Happy Holidays". Either way, I am wishing you well. If you are offended with "Happy Holidays", that is YOUR PROBLEM. My intent was to wish you well, and if you are unwilling to accept that, then you can be happy with your self-righteous arrogance. It will not affect me or what I say in any way.
 
The problem is you have provided no evidence to suggest when the Annunciation took place.

That is where you are wrong. You are evidently not reading.

1. The Catholic Church celebrates the Annunciation on March 25.
2. I already posted passages that shows that the Holy Spirit came to Mary in the Sixth month - which measured from Rosh Hoshana, comes in or around March. It also says that the "WILL conseive", implying that she hadn't conceived at that point.

This is all in my previous posts. If you had read them, you wouldn't have made this statement.

Your posts couldn't be interpreted in any other manner unless the context is that you were being sarcastic. Were you being sarcastic in saying Jesus was born on December 25?

YOU may not interpret them in any other manner, but you obviously miss what I am replying to. The assertion was made that the selection of December 25 was for the purpose of making it easier to convert pagans. To show that there are other reasons for chosing that particular date for the celebration is to show that it was NOT primarily for this purpose, NOT to prove that this is the actual date - something that is an unknown.

Clear now?
 
The religious intonnation of christ birthday has absolutely no meaning nor significance towards non-christians that nevertheless celebrate for the sake that A) it's a day off (in Taiwan it used to be) and B) it's another excuse to go on vacation.

But you would be surprised by how many non-Christian Taiwanese attend mass on Christmas Eve.

Even if they aren't recognizing it for the religious purposes (which is fine with me), it merely was a response to people who say wishing someone a Merry Christmas is excusionary to non Christians. This is only true if you CHOOSe to be an exclusionist - which most Christians are not - and most Taiwanese embrace elements of the celebration - which I think is great.
 
Actually, I got the same thing from your comment. And it was no gross caricature. I am not Christian. I do not want your missionary work. I am happy with my faith (Jewish). Here's a good definition of missionary, from wikipedia: "A missionary is a member of a religion who works to convert those who do not share the missionary's faith". Sorry. That's selling. I'm not buying. Saying "Merry Christmas" to me, when you know my religion, without regards to my beliefs is not being inclusive, no matter how badly you want to believe it. It's not caring about my beliefs. If you say "Merry Christmas" and do not know that I am Jewish, I will thank you and wish you the same...you are wishing me well. If you do the same and know I am Jewish, and are doing so because you want to anyway, you are not having any respect for my beliefs and are not being inclusive at all.

Happy Hanakkah.
 
Oh, and personally, I couldn't give a hoot whether someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays", or whatever, as long as no one is forced to to say either. If you are Christian, and I know it, I will wish you "Merry Christmas". If I do not, I will wish you "Happy Holidays". Either way, I am wishing you well. If you are offended with "Happy Holidays", that is YOUR PROBLEM. My intent was to wish you well, and if you are unwilling to accept that, then you can be happy with your self-righteous arrogance. It will not affect me or what I say in any way.

Thank you and well said. (insert Happy Holidays smilie here)

*note: and why isn't there a "Happy Holidays" smilie? :mrgreen:
 
Actually, I got the same thing from your comment. And it was no gross caricature. I am not Christian. I do not want your missionary work. I am happy with my faith (Jewish). Here's a good definition of missionary, from wikipedia: "A missionary is a member of a religion who works to convert those who do not share the missionary's faith". Sorry. That's selling. I'm not buying. Saying "Merry Christmas" to me, when you know my religion, without regards to my beliefs is not being inclusive, no matter how badly you want to believe it. It's not caring about my beliefs. If you say "Merry Christmas" and do not know that I am Jewish, I will thank you and wish you the same...you are wishing me well. If you do the same and know I am Jewish, and are doing so because you want to anyway, you are not having any respect for my beliefs and are not being inclusive at all.








When someone wishes me something positive in thier faith I am honored that they consider me in thier prayer and celebration.


If I know someone is jewish I will wish them a happy jewish holiday like Chaunikka (however you spell it). If I don't know I will wish you a merry Christmas....


Likewise if a jewish person were to wish me a happy chaunika I would take it as a very nice thing to say to me.

Same with all faiths, beliefs, and what not.



Namaste..... ;)
 
Actually, I got the same thing from your comment. And it was no gross caricature. I am not Christian. I do not want your missionary work. I am happy with my faith (Jewish). Here's a good definition of missionary, from wikipedia: "A missionary is a member of a religion who works to convert those who do not share the missionary's faith". Sorry. That's selling. I'm not buying. Saying "Merry Christmas" to me, when you know my religion, without regards to my beliefs is not being inclusive, no matter how badly you want to believe it. It's not caring about my beliefs. If you say "Merry Christmas" and do not know that I am Jewish, I will thank you and wish you the same...you are wishing me well. If you do the same and know I am Jewish, and are doing so because you want to anyway, you are not having any respect for my beliefs and are not being inclusive at all.


Wait a second...you read that comment from me and interpreted it to mean that I was really saying just screw everyone else who is not Christian?

That is absurd.

To arrive at such an interpretation you must be imputing some motivations to me. Hence, it ain't my words, but your attribution to me of certain prejudices or biases.

And I find that drawing an equivalency between door-to-door sales and missionary work to be gross. And the only reason such an equivalency is presented is to explicitly caricature Christians and others who do neighborhood work to spread their faith and gin up interest in their house of worship.

Saying "Happy Holidays" is wishing someone well for the holiday season. If you have a problem with that, then that is YOUR PROBLEM, not the problem of the speaker.

I know what it is intended to mean. I simply see the shift from Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays and banning Christmas decorations by local governments, public universities, and private firms because "Merry Christmas" (as the California State University at Sacramento and UNC-Charlotte administrators believed) was "ethnically insensitive" as just another in a long string of events removing Christianity from the public square.

Please don't act as though I merely have a problem with the words. My posts have clearly indicated what I perceive to be a much larger/broader issue here.
 
Oh, and personally, I couldn't give a hoot whether someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays", or whatever, as long as no one is forced to to say either. If you are Christian, and I know it, I will wish you "Merry Christmas". If I do not, I will wish you "Happy Holidays". Either way, I am wishing you well. If you are offended with "Happy Holidays", that is YOUR PROBLEM. My intent was to wish you well, and if you are unwilling to accept that, then you can be happy with your self-righteous arrogance. It will not affect me or what I say in any way.

Happy Hanukkah you filthy animal. :cool:
 
When someone wishes me something positive in thier faith I am honored that they consider me in thier prayer and celebration.

If I know someone is jewish I will wish them a happy jewish holiday like Chaunikka (however you spell it). If I don't know I will wish you a merry Christmas....

Likewise if a jewish person were to wish me a happy chaunika I would take it as a very nice thing to say to me.

Same with all faiths, beliefs, and what not.

Namaste..... ;)

Same here; I see NO problemo with it. If I lived in a Muslim country, I also would not expect to see Nativity scenes and Merry Christmas; if I lived in Israel, I would not expect to see Nativity scenes and Merry Christmas.

I guess, logic would dictate that it depends on where you live and the MAJORITY living in those countries that dictates the dominant culture. It's all about respect I tell ya.

:respekt:
 
When someone wishes me something positive in thier faith I am honored that they consider me in thier prayer and celebration.


If I know someone is jewish I will wish them a happy jewish holiday like Chaunikka (however you spell it). If I don't know I will wish you a merry Christmas....


Likewise if a jewish person were to wish me a happy chaunika I would take it as a very nice thing to say to me.

Same with all faiths, beliefs, and what not.



Namaste..... ;)

Cool, well as an atheist I guess Happy Holidays is ok for me to say then.
 
Sure I don't care.


I don't like policy though stating one must say "happy holidays"... That kinda irks me.

If it's a private company though, they can do as they wish. So long as it's not forced through the government I don't see any problem with it.
 
If it's a private company though, they can do as they wish. So long as it's not forced through the government I don't see any problem with it.



I agree with the private company angle as I am sure you would know.


I was talking in schools, public places, etc....
 
I'm an Atheist and I say "Merry Christmas" to most people. If they say "But I'm not Christian" I say, "Cool, neither am I!"
 
I agree with the private company angle as I am sure you would know.


I was talking in schools, public places, etc....

I don't get that. Who is forced to say Happy Holidays? In school or public places? I think people are quite free to say Merry Christmas if they want, so long as they aren't on the job and the job requests them to say something different. But if someone is just out and about at school or outside and says "Merry Christmas", I don't think that person gets into any trouble.

Can teachers say Merry Christmas? Don't know I guess that would be up to the school board. I wouldn't have a problem with it, nor do I think one can get into trouble with the government if they said just that. Can students say Merry Christmas? I don't see any way the school could prevent it. Out in public? It's the same deal. If you're working, you abide by the rules of the workplace. If you're not working; you're free to do as you wish.
 
I don't get that. Who is forced to say Happy Holidays? In school or public places?

Again, I don't think it's an issue of anyone being forced to say Happy Holidays. It's just another example of Christian symbols bieng eliminated from public view. Whether by CSU-Sacramento or UNC-Charlotte banning Christmas decorations or NY state's Dept of Education prohibiting Christian Nativity scenes and creches from public school Christmas displays but permitting Menorahs and Muslim Moom and Stars. This was followed by Palm Beach, Fla banning Christian symbols in a public square while permitting a Menorah to be placed there. BTW - The NY State Dept of Ed won subsequent litigation when the SCOTUS denied certioari after a district court and circuit court approved of the dept's decision to prohibit displaying a nativity scene or creche.

Again the issue ain't simply about Merry Christmas being replaced by Happy Holidays. The issue is that this shift is just another in a long line of examples of a war against Christmas and the elimination of Christian symbols from the public square.

Show of hands...any communities in their state yet resorted to denying that a Christmas tree ain't really a symbol of Christmas like the NJ town cited in the WSJ article above? Or left to argue that a pine tree places next to Menorah constitutes equal treatment of religious symbols?

I mean, these are lengths people are going to segregate Chritianity from Christmas.
 
I am of the opinion that the State and communities can allow or disallow whatever they want from being displayed on their property. Their property, their rules. This of course swings both ways. If they wanted only a manger scene, then that's what gets put up. Yes, it's nice to put up other symbols, but one doesn't have to. I think the all or nothing mentality ends up ruling out rational decision and limitation. You can't possibly display everything, display what you want. Now I would put that mostly into the hands of the community itself, which would mean that which happened in NY schools and such would most likely be reversed (where in it would predominately be Christian symbols and little to no other symbols), since public property is owned by the People at large.

I also had no problem with the 10 commandments being displayed outside State courthouses...up to the State. So long as the courts rule by the laws of man and not the laws of their gods, no harm no foul IMO. We should be aware of others beliefs and we can be nice about it; we don't need to go overboard one way or the other. I think a lot of this comes down to both sides wishing to be unreasonable about these things. And thus you get the tugs to the extreme ends instead of what could just be rational compromise. And in that compromise we could find growth. Acknowledge other religions, perhaps allow displays from some of the bigger ones. It doesn't necessarily have to be only Christian symbols, but Christian symbols shouldn't be banned if you're going to allow other symbols as well.

I don't typically buy the whole "war on Christmas" or "war on Christians" line. Sometimes it appears to be more a raging against the machine sort of thing as one can not deny the dominance that Christianity has enjoyed over most of the West for a long time. But at the same time, I don't submit that we take a wholly anti-theist route either. Freedom of religion is protected, and needs to be protected to its maximum. That's how freedom works. Prayer in school is fine so long as its not forced. Religious displays on public land are ok so long as they are in accordance to the will of the community. Be considerate, but also know there is a limit to what can be put up and the money which can be invested.

Christmas, BTW, is already segregated from Christianity. And it didn't take atheists or the "left" to do it. All it took was the innate greed and consumer habits of the people. Look around, it's not about Christ anymore; it's about stuff and how much of it you can get. If we were truly rational and religious people, Christmas would be akin to Thanksgiving. A period of time when you get together with family. Specifically Christmas would focus around religious celebration and perhaps the giving of a small amount of gifts. But that's gone, destroyed by some of the very people who rally behind the banner of "war on Christmas".
 
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