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US attorney who investigated Trump associates refuses to step down after Barr tries to push him out

trouble13 said:
In fairness, it does not read clearly to me, at least not from what you posted.




How is the word "qualifies" at the end of sec B defined? Could that not mean that the new appointee must be confirmed by the senate or the judicary committee?

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good catch
 
Anthony60 said:
This guy is like Kramer when he went to work at this place, and they had to tell him, after a while, "You don't work here." LOL! I say they just let him wander around.
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You're not at all curious why Barr put out a press release saying Berman resigned, and then Berman turned around and put out a statement saying he had not resigned?

You're not at all curious why Barr is trying to remove Berman?

And you're not at all suspicious that it might have something to do with the investigations into Trump and his associates that SDNY is conducting?
 
W_Heisenberg said:
You're not at all curious why Barr put out a press release saying Berman resigned, and then Berman turned around and put out a statement saying he had not resigned?

You're not at all curious why Barr is trying to remove Berman?

And you're not at all suspicious that it might have something to do with the investigations into Trump and his associates that SDNY is conducting?
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I think it is very weird that the guy is asked to resign, actually, I think they offered him another position in DOJ, then he refuses both. I'm not sure, but when your employer wants you out, and offers another position, and you refuse, the next step is that you are fired. But I don't think they should even do that. Just get the new guy in, and this guy can go find a job, likely at CNN or MSNBC.
 
trouble13 said:
In fairness, it does not read clearly to me, at least not from what you posted.




How is the word "qualifies" at the end of sec B defined? Could that not mean that the new appointee must be confirmed by the senate or the judicary committee?

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I don't think that "qualifies" means confirmation. I think if just means that he is capable of filling the position. I did not read that anywhere, just my take on it. It would say "confirmed" if that's what it meant. Beside, it says POTUS can remove him, no conditions there.
 
RAMOSS said:
I would like to see some sanity return to the republican party. It hasn't been quite sane since the mid 90's
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John McCain is the last true republican in American history...
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
This is not actually clear. Berman was appointed by the court, not by the President.
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I remember the day when Preet Bharara was 'summoned' to Trump Tower, prior to Trump's inauguration. Shortly thereafter, he was fired after refusing to resign as part of the 2017 dismissals by Trump of U.S. attorneys. Preet Bharara was replaced with Geoffrey Berman.

Geoffrey Berman - Wikipedia

He served as an Assistant United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York from 1990 to 1994. In January 2018, U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced Berman's appointment as interim U.S. Attorney for a statutory period of 120 days.[SUP][2][/SUP] On April 25, 2018, the judges of the Southern District of New York, pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 546(d), unanimously appointed Berman U.S. Attorney for an indeterminate term that expires upon the appointment of a Presidential nominee approved by the Senate
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
No, that's not how it works. The cabinet serves at the pleasure of the President - but the President does not have unlimited power to fire any executive branch official.

Now, if Berman had been confirmed by the Senate, there would be plenty of precedent - Barr could just fire him. But Trump decided to circumvent the Senate and now everything is much more complicated.
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Subtlety does not work with stark-raving ideologues.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
Well, no. It is actually quite complicated.

Remember, Trump already fired one SDNY US Attorney - and then appointed Berman as "Acting" US Attorney. But instead of nominating Berman to the Senate to fill the position permanently, he allowed the position to lapse - after which the SDNY District Court appointed Berman to that position until the vacancy has been filled.

This is to prevent exactly what Trump is attempting to do (again) - bypass the Senate confirmation process.

This is honestly entirely new legal territory.
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It is going to get interesting.
 
HumblePi said:
I remember the day when Preet Bharara was 'summoned' to Trump Tower, prior to Trump's inauguration. Shortly thereafter, he was fired after refusing to resign as part of the 2017 dismissals by Trump of U.S. attorneys. Preet Bharara was replaced with Geoffrey Berman.

Geoffrey Berman - Wikipedia

He served as an for the Southern District of New York from 1990 to 1994. In January 2018, , unanimously appointed Berman U.S. Attorney for an indeterminate term that expires upon the appointment of a Presidential nominee approved by the Senate
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They already have named his replacement.
 
TheDoctorWasIn said:
Well, no. It is actually quite complicated.

Remember, Trump already fired one SDNY US Attorney - and then appointed Berman as "Acting" US Attorney. But instead of nominating Berman to the Senate to fill the position permanently, he allowed the position to lapse - after which the SDNY District Court appointed Berman to that position until the vacancy has been filled.

This is to prevent exactly what Trump is attempting to do (again) - bypass the Senate confirmation process.

This is honestly entirely new legal territory.
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Note how OC completely missed the operative part:
28 U.S. Code § 546.Vacancies
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
(a)Except as provided in subsection (b), the Attorney General may appoint a United States attorney for the district in which the office of United States attorney is vacant.
(b)The Attorney General shall not appoint as United States attorney a person to whose appointment by the President to that office the Senate refused to give advice and consent.
(c)A person appointed as United States attorney under this section may serve until the earlier of—
(1)the qualification of a United States attorney for such district appointed by the President under section 541 of this title; or
(2)the expiration of 120 days after appointment by the Attorney General under this section.
(d)If an appointment expires under subsection (c)(2), the district court for such district may appoint a United States attorney to serve until the vacancy is filled. The order of appointment by the court shall be filed with the clerk of the court.
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The bolded part is the operative part. Barr is trying to do something the statute does not contemplate.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Trump may not give him a choice. The President can fire any US attorney for no cause whatsoever.
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Raising public awareness about the corrupt reasons for the firings is a good thing.
 
BlueTex said:
And the judges from the Southern District can appoint a replacement until a replacement is confirmed by the senate. For instance, they could appoint Berman again...
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And there is no chance that Trump will be able to push a nominee through.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
This is the pertinent section:

28 U.S. Code § 546.Vacancies -

28 U.S. Code SS 546 - Vacancies | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

(a)Except as provided in subsection

(b), the Attorney General may appoint a United States attorney for the district in which the office of United States attorney is vacant.

(b)The Attorney General shall not appoint as United States attorney a person to whose appointment by the President to that office the Senate refused to give advice and consent.

(c)A person appointed as United States attorney under this section may serve until the earlier of—

(1)the qualification of a United States attorney for such district appointed by the President under section 541 of this title; or

(2)the expiration of 120 days after appointment by the Attorney General under this section.

(d)If an appointment expires under subsection (c)(2), the district court for such district may appoint a United States attorney to serve until the vacancy is filled. The order of appointment by the court shall be filed with the clerk of the court.

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Discussion/analysis:

Can William Barr Fire SDNY Geoffrey Berman? | Law & Crime

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From the perspective of trying to shield Trump and his associates from scrutiny, I don't think it matters anymore whether Berman is actually fired or not. The fact that Barr tried to fire Berman and Berman refused to immediately resign has created such a stir that the SDNY will be unable to shut down any sort of investigation that Barr and Trump may be trying to shut down. There's just going to be too much scrutiny from now on.

This stinks to high heaven and I hope Congress looks into this immediately. The likelihood Barr is trying to cover something up for Trump is very high.
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Sorry, I hadn't seen that this was already posted when I cited to it. As always, ahead of me. ;)
 
Anthony60 said:
And, of course, there are zero true Democrats. So we are left with no one. Not that that is a bad thing.
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Indeed, good riddance to the George Wallaces of the party. They're all in the GOP now.
 
Anthony60 said:
I think it is very weird that the guy is asked to resign, actually, I think they offered him another position in DOJ, then he refuses both. I'm not sure, but when your employer wants you out, and offers another position, and you refuse, the next step is that you are fired. But I don't think they should even do that. Just get the new guy in, and this guy can go find a job, likely at CNN or MSNBC.
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"President keeps firing people who are investigating him" doesn't sound like an issue? Are you going to cheer when Biden does it?
 
Anthony60 said:
They already have named his replacement.
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Yes I have heard, it's Jay Clayton from New Jersey. They didn't even name anyone else from the SDNY to replace Berman, that says a lot right there. Jay Clayton is currently the Chairman of the SEC. He is not a prosecutor and has never prosecuted a single case. He has up to six months in which he can serve as 'acting' AG of the SDNY, after that, a new AG must be approved by the Senate.
 
MTAtech said:
There is a big difference, which you are trying to obfuscate, between replacing US Attorneys that differ on policy, like voter suppression and firing US Attorneys because they are investigating your corruption and malfeasance. One is a policy disagreement. The other is obstruction of justice.
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You think everything Trump does is obstruction.
 
Anthony60 said:
I don't think that "qualifies" means confirmation. I think if just means that he is capable of filling the position. I did not read that anywhere, just my take on it. It would say "confirmed" if that's what it meant. Beside, it says POTUS can remove him, no conditions there.
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You may be correct, I do not know. I read it and thought it to be unclear without knowing the definition of the word, qualifies.

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Praxas said:
Yeah key words there. WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE. So is that a YES, you would SUPPORT a Democrat doing this as president when he's this far into his term?
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You are trying really hard not to listen. All US Attorneys are subject to removal by the President. I don't need to support it to understand it is Constitutional for them to do so.
 
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