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At least 82 killed as gunmen rampage in India city

No need to get upset over it... we can debate this rationally. :)

I'm just saying that an off-hand comment made partially in jest isn't going to sway anyone to violence who wasn't already predisposed to it in the first place.
 
I'm just saying that an off-hand comment made partially in jest isn't going to sway anyone to violence who wasn't already predisposed to it in the first place.

It wasn't in jest at all, actually. I was being serious. Both sides in this political struggle are feeding the problem and so we have cyclical violence.

If Islam, as a religion, were predisposed to violence, then there would be far more of it in the world than there is now. You will always be able to find quotes in scripture from any of the Abrahamic faiths that talk about violence and attacking non-believers, but that doesn't mean the modern majority actually endorse such drivel. It's only the extremists who do.

The scriptures are historic documents as much as they are religious ones, and there are always going to be traces of a violent past in them. None of the Abrahamic faiths can claim innocence from this.
 
It would certainly solve the problem, though.

Doesn't make you any more less of a savage for wanting it though. You are no different then the enemy that wants to kill all of us. You want to kill all of them, just as bad.
 
It wasn't in jest at all, actually. I was being serious. Both sides in this political struggle are feeding the problem and so we have cyclical violence.

If Islam, as a religion, were predisposed to violence, then there would be far more of it in the world than there is now. You will always be able to find quotes in scripture from any of the Abrahamic faiths that talk about violence and attacking non-believers, but that doesn't mean the modern majority actually endorse such drivel. It's only the extremists who do.

The scriptures are historic documents as much as they are religious ones, and there are always going to be traces of a violent past in them. None of the Abrahamic faiths can claim innocence from this.

You cant pick up a paper with out reading about an Islamic attack, you have a need for more?
 
You cant pick up a paper with out reading about an Islamic attack, you have a need for more?

Using the media to understand political affairs is a poor choice in sourcing your education.
 
Using the media to understand political affairs is a poor choice in sourcing your education.

How about just pulling the stories off the AP?
Are you going to tell me next its all made up bs?.......:roll:
How many people have died on the attacks
You know which and by who...Its been all over the news for a few days now..
 
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Doesn't make you any more less of a savage for wanting it though. You are no different then the enemy that wants to kill all of us. You want to kill all of them, just as bad.

Except I have been provoked. Try again.
 
How about just pulling the stories off the AP?
Are you going to tell me next its all made up bs?.......:roll:
How many people have died on the attacks
You know which and by who...Its been all over the news for a few days now..

I'm not saying the AP is wrong, ok, so don't twist my words. I am saying that if you want a wholesome education on the root of the current issues in Middle Eastern politics, then you will have to go much deeper than what the newspaper says.

But you clearly have no interest in the truth, and so I have no interest in you.
 
12? Try again how about all the support to plan and carry out the attacks?
How many people around the world have died because of Islam since 9/11?

Do I blame them all? No But I expect them to retake their religion. Is that too much to ask?

But really this is all just talk right? Wait until Pakistan falls to the extremist.
They have what 10 to 20 small nukes?

What support ffs?!
A few were Sauds. Seems to me US needs to review their allies list.

How many have died?
Almost as much as the Iraqis and Afghans caused by the war set in motion by US and UK/Coalition

And so its my 7th time in asking and still counting!
How do you expect moderate Muslims to take back Islam?!! Jesus Christ.
What can i do, a insignificant Muslim out of the 1.2billion against the people with the guns and money?
If US cannot remove Al Qaeda and extremists in general, the richest and arguably the most powerful country in the world, how do you expect Moderate Muslims to achieve success?
When the 2 most holiest cities in the world is in the hands of crazy bastards [kept in power by the west through money], how do you expect to top that influence?

I'll sit here and wait for an answer shall i? :roll:

Pakistan fall into extremism? Meh. Matter of time.
Instead of being in Iraq, we should have been in Pakistan to begin with but now it is too late.
If US attacks and invades another Muslim country ... *sigh*
It will be seen as an attack on Muslims and Islam :S
 
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BINGO!! We have a winner!:monkey

Oookayy .... :/

I have never denied Muslims have a duty to police their own religion and help eradicate extremists, i merely ask how people expect us to succeed in this task.
 
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What support ffs?!
A few were Sauds. Seems to me US needs to review their allies list.

I have long been critical of the US relationship with the KSA. However, just because citizens of a country do something, doesn't mean that their government supports it.

How many have died?
Almost as much as the Iraqis and Afghans caused by the war set in motion by US and UK/Coalition

It is wrong of you to bring Afghanistan into this. Remember, the criminal Taliban was sheltering those responsible for 9/11. There was undoubtedly a moral and a legal right to launch that attack.


And so its my 7th time in asking and still counting!
How do you expect moderate Muslims to take back Islam?!! Jesus Christ.

Perhaps "take back" is a poor choice of words. However, moderate elements in the religion DO need to be more forceful in comdemning such actions and seek to counter the work of radical elements in their communities. When nutty "Christians" do things, most other Christians will duly criticize them for it.

Also, since we are talking about religion and you don't want people to say anything that would offend your religion, please do not use "Jesus Christ" in the context you used in this post. It is offensive.

What can i do, a insignificant Muslim out of the 1.2billion against the people with the guns and money?

One person can do a lot, with the proper drive and motivation. Ask people with names like Gandhi and King.

If US cannot remove Al Qaeda and extremists in general, the richest and arguably the most powerful country in the world, how do you expect Moderate Muslims to achieve success?

You live in Britain. The UK has its share of radical Islamic preachers. Moderate Muslims need to counter their hate in your own communities. THAT is what you and other ordinary, average, moderate, loving Muslims can do.

When the 2 most holiest cities in the world is in the hands of crazy bastards [kept in power by the west through money], how do you expect to top that influence?

Call the leaders of the KSA what you want, but I wouldn't call them crazy. At least they are not committing terror acts all around the world.

Pakistan fall into extremism? Meh. Matter of time.

I don't think so. Most Pakistanis are pretty moderate and most of the radicals are in the tribal areas in the northwest along the Afghan border.

Instead of being in Iraq, we should have been in Pakistan to begin with but now it is too late.

Supporting Musharaff for so long was a mistake. However, Pakistan is not inevitably going to sink into extremism.

If US attacks and invades another Muslim country ... *sigh*

The U.S. has also helped Muslim countries. Remember Bosnia and Kosovo? The U.S. tried to help with the UN in Somalia - though the UN plan there was ill conceived. Shouldn't something be done in Darfur where Muslims are comitting genocide against fellow Muslims?

RIght now, the biggest world problem is Muslims running amok. The Islamic world is doing very little to stop it. If the West has to stop it with military force, then they have to do it. If that means invading another Muslim country if necessary, then so be it. Hopefully, it will be better conceived than the Iraq debacle has been.

It will be seen as an attack on Muslims and Islam :S[/QUOTE]
 
There was undoubtedly a moral and a legal right to launch that attack.

What about Iraq? No moral right to attack.

However, moderate elements in the religion DO need to be more forceful in comdemning such actions and seek to counter the work of radical elements in their communities. When nutty "Christians" do things, most other Christians will duly criticize them for it.

I don't hear western christians in US or Europe condeming Nigeria ....
And i've shown how Muslims do condemn extremism.

Also, since we are talking about religion and you don't want people to say anything that would offend your religion, please do not use "Jesus Christ" in the context you used in this post. It is offensive.

Jesus Christ is now offensive? Okay, I won't use that term ..

You live in Britain. The UK has its share of radical Islamic preachers. Moderate Muslims need to counter their hate in your own communities. THAT is what you and other ordinary, average, moderate, loving Muslims can do

And we Muslims do that very well.
The majority of calls given to the British police on tip offs about extremists come from who? The Muslim community.

I don't think so. Most Pakistanis are pretty moderate and most of the radicals are in the tribal areas in the northwest along the Afghan border.

Supporting Musharaff for so long was a mistake. However, Pakistan is not inevitably going to sink into extremism.

We have to wait and see what happens.

The U.S. has also helped Muslim countries. Remember Bosnia and Kosovo? The U.S. tried to help with the UN in Somalia - though the UN plan there was ill conceived. Shouldn't something be done in Darfur where Muslims are comitting genocide against fellow Muslims?

Yes it has and i have never stated US does not help Muslim countries.
But should it?
Should it not be up to Muslims to help their own?
Dependency on Western aid is as crippling as ignoring it.

RIght now, the biggest world problem is Muslims running amok. The Islamic world is doing very little to stop it.

How do you propose it be stopped?
 
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I'm not saying the AP is wrong, ok, so don't twist my words. I am saying that if you want a wholesome education on the root of the current issues in Middle Eastern politics, then you will have to go much deeper than what the newspaper says.

But you clearly have no interest in the truth, and so I have no interest in you.

How much deeper would that be? huh? Every ****ing day extremist are killing somebody in the world and the peaceful cowards do nothing.
 
How much deeper would that be? huh? Every ****ing day extremist are killing somebody in the world and the peaceful cowards do nothing.

What exactly are they supposed to do?
 
What exactly are they supposed to do?

Haven't you guessed yet?
We are meant to don hats and go tracking for the Islamists with guns - Nothing else would please the people whining :roll:
 
Haven't you guessed yet?
We are meant to don hats and go tracking for the Islamists with guns - Nothing else would please the people whining :roll:

I just get sick of the lame talking point about how peaceful Muslims don't speak out against the extremists. That lie has actually turned into a talking point that people regurgitate over and over and over again. All it takes is a quick little trip to google to find out how completely false those claims are.

So considering that they already speak out against this stuff, what else are they supposed to do? Why would anyone assume that peaceful Muslims have the same resources that the military does or that they would somehow fair better against the extremists?

Personally, I don't even think that they should have to speak out against terrorism. I think that it should be blatantly obvious to anyone that the peaceful Muslims don't share views with the extremists and therefore shouldn't be associated to make judging Muslims as a whole more convenient for people.
 
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What about Iraq? No moral right to attack.

Simply False. The No-Fly resolution violations gave us legal Casus Belli the first year after desert storm. Add to that that we caught Saddam red handed trying to fund the assassination of Bush Sr. Saddams payment to an assassin in Dubai was intercepted and proven, and that, right there and by itself, is reason for us to knock over the whole country.
 
So considering that they already speak out against this stuff, what else are they supposed to do? Why would anyone assume that peaceful Muslims have the same resources that the military does or that they would somehow fair better against the extremists?

Personally, I don't even think that they should have to speak out against terrorism. I think that it should be blatantly obvious to anyone that the peaceful Muslims don't share views with the extremists and therefore shouldn't be associated to make judging Muslims as a whole more convenient for people.

I agree but people won't quit the 'muslims don't condemn nothing'
I have no idea how they expect normal muslims like me to do something the US and UK miltary has failed to do. Its ridiculous.

I have no military experience and im freaked out by guns yet somehow im meant to stand up to people who are capable of killing innocent people and blowing themselves up ;'S
 
I agree but people won't quit the 'muslims don't condemn nothing'
I have no idea how they expect normal muslims like me to do something the US and UK miltary has failed to do. Its ridiculous.

Unfortunately, ignorance will always exist.
 
Unfortunately, ignorance will always exist.

Indeed, its a pity but can't say it gets any less annoying despite the amount of times i hear it
 
I have no idea how they expect normal muslims like me to do something the US and UK miltary has failed to do. Its ridiculous.
There is no silver-bullet (no pun intended) military method to eradicate radicalism and terrorism. This must come from within. I have always wondered why the huge "moderate" component of Islam is so selective with the power of numbers. Where are the mass Muslim demonstrations demanding an end to Islamic radicalism?

The disrespectful cartoons about Mohammad ocassioned mass demonstrations by Muslims all across the globe. It's a mystery to me why this same Muslim mass repugnance is absent when Islamists murder over one hundred innocent people right before our very eyes. Why do these two glaring examples of disrespecting Islam result in such vastly different responses from the moderate Muslim world? I haven't a clue.
 
12? Try again how about all the support to plan and carry out the attacks?
How many people around the world have died because of Islam since 9/11?
This is an excellent point. While I always encourage people to realize that the violent extremists are a minority, there is a very broad support network that either knowingly or unknowingly supports the efforts of the few. Whether it be through monetary donations to radically led mosques, spreading of militant propaganda, allowing safe passage, or simply not speaking up and encouraging a peaceful course of existence.
Do I blame them all? No But I expect them to retake their religion. Is that too much to ask?
It's not too much to ask at all. But realistically it's going to take a while.
But really this is all just talk right? Wait until Pakistan falls to the extremist.
They have what 10 to 20 small nukes?
Let's hope there is a plan to "relocate" those nukes in such an event.
 
I agree but people won't quit the 'muslims don't condemn nothing'
I have no idea how they expect normal muslims like me to do something the US and UK miltary has failed to do. Its ridiculous.

I have no military experience and im freaked out by guns yet somehow im meant to stand up to people who are capable of killing innocent people and blowing themselves up ;'S

You simply do what you are doing now. You refuse to become a part of it. You use your voice to denounce those that are perverting your religion. I'm not asking you to take up arms. I'm just asking you to talk to other Muslims and help reinforce those beliefs that you have with regard to your religion. That's it's one of peace. You need to take a stand vocally and politically. Don't be afraid.
 
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