57 Buffalo officers resign from Emergency Response Team after two cops suspended

justabubba said:

if the assignment was not a voluntary one, then your presentation would have merit
but accounts insist it was a voluntary assignment which means your presentation is not appropriate for a voluntary withdrawal
if there is language in the labor-management contract which prohibits the discontinuation of a voluntary detail assignment, then those who resigned were wrong. otherwise, they were well within their contract rights

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For Christ’s sake it’s not the voluntary post. It’s the public declaration for *why* they left that post.

Would you—scratch that—would any other normal human being trust any of these pieces of **** on the job knowing *why* they resigned?


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Fiddytree said:

Yeah we do not know the ratio. But in Buffalo, that 57 was 8% of their force. That’s 8 percent off the bat. Do we reasonably think we could at least double that figure if we took a look at those who agree with the 57, but don’t have some other post they could symbolically sacrifice?

I mean, how unrealistic is it to presume that a substantial percentage of that police force feels the same damn way as those 57, but feel they cant or won’t just leave the job? And if you knew that, let’s say 1 in 5 cops feel that it is “unfair” for someone to be slightly punished for nearly killing an unarmed old man, would *you* want to be in the presence of these people?

**** no.


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Exactly.

The cops that stand and watch their colleagues who are participants in abuse of citizens should tell us something. It tells us that their culture views citizens who are abused as "deserving it" in someway, and that civil rights should make way for whatever agenda a police officer has.

Fiddytree said:

For Christ’s sake it’s not the voluntary post. It’s the public declaration for *why* they left that post.

Would you—scratch that—would any other normal human being trust any of these pieces of **** on the job knowing *why* they resigned?


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Teachers have a tough job.

Often, they volunteer for youth activities after school. If they hit a child is the excuse that they were volunteering sufficient to absolve them of legal accountability? Should they keep their job?

See how crazy that sounds cop apologists? That's how YOU sound.

trouble13 said:

You should be celebrating this. Theres no longer a riot squad in buffalo. Thats a step in the direction you all want, right?

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Were the cops right to shove the old man to the ground? Do you think the rest were justified in resigning?

Fiddytree said:

For Christ’s sake it’s not the voluntary post. It’s the public declaration for *why* they left that post.

Would you—scratch that—would any other normal human being trust any of these pieces of **** on the job knowing *why* they resigned?


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it is the voluntariness of it which absolves the 57 who resigned that voluntary assignment

they remain cops. they are available to be assigned per the contract and/or underlying standard operating procedures

that 57 saw that they are legally and economically vulnerable in that voluntary assignment and thus withdrew as a matter of self-interest

dcsports said:

Um, no. He stood with him and called an ambulance.

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He left him lying there, unprotected, then kept walking. The first people to kneel down and check on him was a guy who looked like national guard.

MovingPictures said:

Teachers have a tough job.

Often, they volunteer for youth activities after school. If they hit a child is the excuse that they were volunteering sufficient to absolve them of legal accountability? Should they keep their job?

Apparently so.

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I’ve seen it and heard stuff like that, so yes, actually that does happen.

First they say the kid hurt them. They will say that on the news and to legislators. Then their union will tell everyone up to high heaven that a certain population of kids (black kids, native kids, disabled kids) are bad kids and are assaulting the poor beleaguered (white) teachers and therefore they need extra SROs, they need to be able to use techniques that can kill kids, yadda yadda.

Then you find out the piece of **** teacher slapped the **** out of the kid and the kid fought back. But you can’t say anything, because it’s tied up in a CPS investigation, but the teachers and the union don’t feel the need to observe confidentiality themselves.


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trouble13 said:

Not me, the protestors want them all gone. I say lets try an experiment and comply to their demands.
The addage of being careful of what you wish for applies to them

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That's bull**** and you know it. What protesters want is cops who e.g. don't kneel on the necks of people and kill them. Doesn't seem to be a hard distinction, actually.

Fiddytree said:

I’ve seen it and heard stuff like that, so yes, actually that does happen.

First they say the kid hurt them. They will say that on the news and to legislators. Then their union will tell everyone up to high heaven that a certain population of kids (black kids, native kids, disabled kids) are bad kids and are assaulting the poor beleaguered teachers and therefore they need extra SROs, they need to be able to use techniques that can kill kids, yadda yadda.

Then you find out the piece of **** teacher slapped the **** out of the kid and the kid fought back. But you can’t say anything, because it’s tied up in a CPS investigation, but the teachers and the union don’t feel the need to observe confidentiality themselves.


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Right, but you don't see political operatives and our society buying that ****.

When we see a teacher slug a kid in the face we say "Strike 1! They need to go!". There aren't throngs of apologists that come out of the woodwork to defend them, and you don't see the majority of teachers rationalize the assault of a child at a school by another teacher.

You can fight rogue teachers and the unions don't have the system in their back pocket like police.

ldsrptcvt said:

ever think the man had dementia?

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It's beside the point - to call a slight touch on the forearm with his phone "placing hands on the officer" is bull**** from the jump.

MovingPictures said:

Right, but you don't see political operatives and our society buying that ****.

When we see a teacher slug a kid in the face we say "Strike 1! They need to go!". There aren't throngs of apologists that come out of the woodwork to defend them, and you don't see the majority of teachers rationalize the assault of a child at a school by another teacher.

You can fight rogue teachers and the unions don't have the system in their back pocket like police.

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I wish I could say that here dude, but it just isn’t true. My state’s worse off than most, but what you’re saying isn’t really true wherever you go. Again, my state is just among the worst. Around here, the union has total control and both parties and the executive branch get good and tight with them. Of course, to varying degrees this is true throughout the country (see the stuff that happened in Illinois where they walked back a big reform because teachers and admin whined enough that they couldn’t isolate kids in ways that our prisons aren’t allowed to do anymore). I’m just in a location that’s a bit more strongly felt. That doesn’t mean I don’t find common cause with those folks. I do. They know me, but man, when you’re dealing with certain vulnerable populations, it’s like you can’t touch it, you can’t get them to budge. At best you get them silently sitting there at committee hearings.

Truth of the matter is: if you want to feel public union control, you get it strongest at the state and local level. At the federal level they are far weaker.

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justabubba said:

they resigned from a voluntary function in solidarity with two officers who were suspended for doing their job

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They were suspended for shoving an old man, protesting peacefully and posing no threat, to the ground, severely injuring him. If that's "their job" then we have a different notion of what "their job" should be. They ****ed up their job, in a big way, in a very public way, on video, against a helpless old man who is in the hospital. Seems like that's the starting point of any serious discussion

It's fine to say they didn't mean to hurt him - could be! But it doesn't really matter. If you shove an old man and put him in the hospital, those same cops will arrest your ass and throw you in jail for assault at least. If that was your father or grandfather someone else shoved and sent to the hospital, you would demand it, correctly. So why do different rules apply here?

Fiddytree said:

I wish I could say that here dude, but it just isn’t true. My state’s worse off than most, but what you’re saying isn’t really true wherever you go. Again, my state is just among the worst. Around here, the union has total control and both parties and the executive branch get good and tight with them. Of course, to varying degrees this is true throughout the country (see the stuff that happened in Illinois where they walked back a big reform because teachers and admin whined enough that they couldn’t isolate kids in ways that our prisons aren’t allowed to do anymore). I’m just in a location that’s a bit more strongly felt.

Truth of the matter is: if you want to feel public union control, you get it strongest at the state and local level. At the federal level they are far weaker.

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This is concerning information and I'd like to hear more, if you feel up to it.

If not here, then perhaps, some other thread in the future.

MovingPictures said:

Right, but you don't see political operatives and our society buying that ****.

When we see a teacher slug a kid in the face we say "Strike 1! They need to go!". There aren't throngs of apologists that come out of the woodwork to defend them, and you don't see the majority of teachers rationalize the assault of a child at a school by another teacher.

You can fight rogue teachers and the unions don't have the system in their back pocket like police.

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little johnny is a very violent kid with no self control. the kind of student fiddytree wants to mainstream to disrupt the education of the other three dozen kids in the same class room
in another of his many outbursts, johnny starts punching the fourth grader next to him in the face. she is now bleeding
the teacher restrains johnny, who then tries to bite and kick the teacher
she takes johnny down the hall by the arm, trying to keep her distance so he cannot strike/kick her along the way, so that the principal can deal with this problem
review of the security feed reveals this hold is found non-compliant with the way students were to be restrained
that teacher, the prior year's teacher of the year, was fired

yea, talk to me about how teachers mistreat their kids

justabubba said:

if the assignment was not a voluntary one, then your presentation would have merit
but accounts insist it was a voluntary assignment which means your presentation is not appropriate for a voluntary withdrawal
if there is language in the labor-management contract which prohibits the discontinuation of a voluntary detail assignment, then those who resigned were wrong. otherwise, they were well within their contract rights

Click to expand...

Try telling that to your commanders when you volunteer to join the military and then proceed renege on that pledge to serve when a war breaks out. As far as the contract is concerned if it doesn't serve the public interest than it should be terminated on those grounds. Personally I don't believe all 57 of those cops agree with this action. I think they were likely badgered by their union leadership in supporting this misguided action. Because when I watch the video tape I see a number of them that saw the old man go down pause as if they were thinking to themselves; WTF just happened there? I think in that moment they could see in that man an elderly parent or grandparent of their own they wouldn't want to see treated that way. And like others who didn't necessarily see what happened but saw a elderly man laying on the pavement, bleeding from his ears, were kind furtively looking around for some kind of cue from their leaders or fellow officers as what to do. Shouldn't we be helping this man? And there was no leadership. Rather that leadership told them to ignore the unnecessary human suffering they are witnessing.

justabubba said:

no, i don't know it; and clearly, neither do you

why would you believe the police force defending against a riot is subordinate to rendering medical attention to someone who is in need of medical help?

by your logic, emergency medical responders should be expected to manage riots instead of tending to medical victims if the riot became rowdy in their presence

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Screen shot of the "riot." Looks serious, and that old man was right in the middle of it!! No wonder the police were scared. There's like 20 people or so standing around!!

Word is the two officers that assault the 75 year old will be charged.

If true GOOD.

This is a time of reckoning for police culture that has been long overdue.

justabubba said:

they quit a VOLUNTARY assignment

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Yes. They did so in solidarity with police brutality.

Atomic Kid said:

Try telling that to your commanders when you volunteer to join the military and then proceed renege on that pledge to serve when a war breaks out. As far as the contract is concerned if it doesn't serve the public interest than it should be terminated on those grounds. Personally I don't all 57 of those cops agree with this action. I think they were likely badgered by their union leadership in supporting this misguided action. Because when I watch the video tape I see number of them that saw the old man go down paused as if they were WTF just happened there. I think in that moment they could see kn that man an elderly parent or grandparent of their own they wouldn't want to

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weak analogy recognizing that unlike these cops, the military members are not unionized

justabubba said:

if the assignment was not a voluntary one, then your presentation would have merit
but accounts insist it was a voluntary assignment which means your presentation is not appropriate for a voluntary withdrawal
if there is language in the labor-management contract which prohibits the discontinuation of a voluntary detail assignment, then those who resigned were wrong. otherwise, they were well within their contract rights

Click to expand...

Just because they have a right to resign from that position doesn't mean the reason they do so magically becomes not ****ty.

MovingPictures said:

This is concerning information and I'd like to hear more, if you feel up to it.

If not here, then perhaps, some other thread in the future.

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Yeah, there’s a lot that’s not tangential to this thread.

To a related issue, though, right now it’s very fashionable for the entire political structure and education establishment to want more SROs everywhere, doing everything, and be able to rise to the occasion. Like we’re preparing for the next Columbine, right? But teachers and administration use them for everything, including petty ass school code violations that would have ordinarily been addressed through teachers and administrators. Aside from the fact that the education establishment doesn’t want teachers to have guns (thank God), the entire thing seems hellbent on preparing for an apocalypse that has not yet occurred, while paying next to no attention to how they are leading people into a situation where the system may injure or kills students on a semi-regular basis (the latter will be a thankfully rare occurrence that should never have happened in the first place) and then is set up to blame the students for being injured or killed by the system.

SROs up the ass, authorization of force, confusing their roles more than already unfortunately exists, having them respond to *mental health* issues students are facing at the same time that they get to do all of their normal and crazy Rambo **** that they are now preparing for.

The legislature likes it, the school boards like it, the union is okay with it, the administration groups love it, the executive branch is promoting it to beat hell, and people are running in the upcoming elections on this ****.

Hell, a lot of the public likes it, because they think it’s a lot of black immigrants and refugees, American Indians, and disabled kids that are going to spend a lot of time with the SROs (all true, by the way).

We had a family with an autistic white kid that had several SROs and other adults physically restraining a kid in a bathroom stall for tens of minutes at a time, for hours. Techniques that could lead to injury or death. Then, you know, delete the video recordings of it (oops, they “went missing”). Other families had education admins tell them to their face that because policies (not regs here) cover what they do, they send the SROs to do the same thing, and there’s no regs covering *their* conduct. You know, unexplained bruises, broken bones, or, God forbid, a death, could have a wee bit more legal hurdles to follow to get accountability in place.

It’s unreal.


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justabubba said:

it is the voluntariness of it which absolves the 57 who resigned that voluntary assignment

they remain cops. they are available to be assigned per the contract and/or underlying standard operating procedures

that 57 saw that they are legally and economically vulnerable in that voluntary assignment and thus withdrew as a matter of self-interest

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That is a sad story - push an old man who is posing no threat to the ground, he's hospitalized, and there are....CONSEQUENCES!!! Should we give them a tissue or something? It's too bad that abusing the authority to use force isn't risk and accountability and consequence free, but that's the way it goes I guess.

JasperL said:

Were the cops right to shove the old man to the ground? Do you think the rest were justified in resigning?

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Dont know without more information and honesty at this point I dont much care who gets hurt anymore. No point in having a fight if only side is gonna play by the rules. Lets all kill each other until the last man is standing

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trouble13 said:

Dont know without more information and honesty at this point I dont much care who gets hurt anymore. No point in having a fight if only side is gonna play by the rules. Lets all kill each other until the last man is standing

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Too difficult to watch the <1 minute clip, eh?


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justabubba said:

weak analogy recognizing that unlike these cops, the military members are not unionized

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When it comes to serving and protecting the public in a time of crisis what difference does it make? It's moral cowardice and a violation of their oath.