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Lawmakers Begin Bipartisan Push to Cut Off Police Access to Military-Style Gear

tacomancer said:
The military should not participate in keeping out illegal immigrants. That should be up to border patrol. For other topics, such as repelling a foreign invasion, the military should be absolutely involved in securing US borders.
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That is inconsistent with what you orginally said about it being appropiate to use the military on american soil to combat foreghin invaders. Illegal immigrants, by definition, are foreign invaders.

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trouble13 said:
That is inconsistent with what you orginally said about it being appropiate to use the military on american soil to combat foreghin invaders. Illegal immigrants, by definition, are foreign invaders.

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illegal immigrants are not foreign invaders. Foreign invaders would be an organize state or extra-state actor such as a cartel.
 
apdst said:
Unless you take away the tools they need to do so. Why do you hate the LEO's?
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The LEOs were fine before they had these tools.
 
tacomancer said:
illegal immigrants are not foreign invaders. Foreign invaders would be an organize state or extra-state actor such as a cartel.
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A cartel does not fit your definition either

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trouble13 said:
A cartel does not fit your definition either

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In this case, it would be an extra-state actor, as I mentioned.
 
tacomancer said:
In this case, it would be an extra-state actor, as I mentioned.
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I dont know what extra state actors are but if you meant to say non- state actors then illegal immigrants are as much of ones as is cartels. Your standard seems a bit ambigous and dare I say prejudicial.

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trouble13 said:
I dont know what extra state actors are but if you meant to say non- state actors then illegal immigrants are as much of ones as is cartels. Your standard seems a bit ambigous and dare I say prejudicial.

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Perhaps non-state actor is the technical word for it, but I am referring to organized groups such as terrorist groups or cartels, not lone individuals or small families.
 
tacomancer said:
I am fine with the army defending against a foreign invasion, such as would be the case with the cartels.
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Where do you think MS-13 was founded?
 
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tacomancer said:
Then the police can request a court order or other appropriate signoff. It is clear though that the police cannot be trusted to use this power responsibly or else there would have never been a need for the protests in the first place.
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.....the equipment used in this instance to kill a man was a knee.
 
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WCH said:
Can you site an event where the police used such equipment improperly? SWAT teams use that stuff regularly.
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Cops are notorious bad shots.
 
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apdst said:
A flack jacket, helmet and cargo pants aren't going to make a person more violent.
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Actually it can, just as seatbelts make people slightly more reckless drivers, and fewer rugby players face the kind of injuries more heavily-armored football players do.

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Carjosse said:
Why do specialized SWAT teams and the National Guard exist?
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SWAT teams were my first thought as well. Beat Cops generally don't need M4's and grenades. SWAT does.




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tacomancer said:
The LEOs were fine before they had these tools.
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I'm from Alabama, and, we have a very different memory of the 1960s, apparently, than you do.
 
We probably need that kind of law against the baddies. Cops need weapons supremacy.
 
cpwill said:
Actually it can, just as seatbelts make people slightly more reckless drivers, and fewer rugby players face the kind of injuries more heavily-armored football players do.

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PPE can make cops take chances that they might not otherwise take, but it won't change them emotionally, making them more violent.
 
apdst said:
PPE can make cops take chances that they might not otherwise take, but it won't change them emotionally, making them more violent.
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The first is the second.

And... Yeah. How we stand, what we wear, absolutely impacts us, emotionally.
 
cpwill said:
I'm from Alabama, and, we have a very different memory of the 1960s, apparently, than you do.
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I was not yet born in the 60s. However, the real things to look at are preventing the lack of access to prosperity that causes this type of frustration in the first place.
 
cpwill said:
.....the equipment used in this instance to kill a man was a knee.
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Exactly, so why trust them advanced equipment?
 
cpwill said:
Where do you think MS-13 was founded?
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I will have to research what ms-13 is and get back to you. This is a new term.
 
apdst said:
The equipment they're using is defensive. There's nothing wrong with force protection.
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About as defensive as the Roman empire "defending" their borders all the way to England.
 
Binary_Digit said:
In 1997, two heavily armed and armored crooks robbed the Bank of America in North Hollywood. They had AK-47s, XM-15 Bushmasters, and homemade body armor. The police had standard issue 9mm and .38 revolvers. The police were so badly outgunned that they had to borrow weapons from a local gun shop. This incident kicked off the modern militarization of the police. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with this legislation, but it needs to be balanced. And equipment is one thing, but behavior is another.
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Draw a very distinctive line between everyday police and SWAT/tactical force units.
 
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