Declassified Transcripts of Flynn-Kislyak Calls Released

Termn8or · Jun 1, 2020

Athanasius68 said:
W_Heisenberg said:

It does not matter.

The idea that the FBI could not threaten Flynn with charging his son on a different crime they were both involved is not against DOJ policy.

You keep inventing procedural hurdles that simply do not exist.

Click to expand...

It does matter.
Remember what this is all about: the false claim that Trump had conspired with Russia to fix the election. Flynn was supposedly involved and the efforts against him were to get him to provide that information.

Heisie is pretending to have amnesia and trying to pretend that never happened.:doh

Start pulling cards from a house of cards, and the entire thing collapses.

Athanasius68 · Jun 1, 2020

W_Heisenberg said:
That's good enough from the perspective of the FBI being suspicious of Flynn. Flynn did not need to promise anything. Flynn's suggestion to wait, and to not act disproportionately negated the effect of what the Obama administration was trying to do. Flynn SHOULD NOT have done what he did.

Flynn sought to de-escalate things with Russia because Flynn did not care about its interference in our elections and saw Islamic radicalism apparently as more important than Russia's attempts to interfere in our election.

That was probably Flynn's rationale, and justification in his own mind, as to why he thought his actions were appropriate.

But what Flynn thought about it, DOES NOT MATTER. What matters is that Flynn did not yet have official authority to engage in foreign policy, or to counteract what the Obama administration was trying to achieve.

Flynn should not have done what he did. Flynn should not have told Kislyak to not escalate the situation, and Flynn should NOT have lied to White House officials. And Flynn should NOT have lied to the FBI.

Do you see where I'm going here? I am saying all the things Flynn should NOT have done? Do you know why? Because Flynn is responsible for HIS OWN BEHAVIOR.

So your argument here is that the Obama Admin wanted Russia to respond in a disproportionate manner to the sanctions and expulsions.
Ok-- but maybe Russia saw through that and decided they weren't going to play that game.

Athanasius68 · Jun 1, 2020

W_Heisenberg said:
W_Heisenberg said:

We know the effect of Flynn's conversation because Russia did not retaliate at all after the Obama administration initiated the sanctions and expelled the Russian diplomats.

Click to expand...

Or Russia decided it wasn't their national interest to respond.
The problem here is that you are looking at everything through the prism that Trump had conspired with Russia.
We know it didn't happen so other explanations need to be considered.
Unfortunately for the USA, the Obama Admin caused a lot of problems because they erroneously looked at these things through that false prism.

Keep in mind, even before Flynn lied there is already evidence that Flynn accepted a $45,000 payment from the Russian government (through a media organization it owned), and sat with Putin at a banquet in December of 2015. Flynn lied to the U.S. government about this payment, and then lied to the American people when he was interviewed during the Republican National Convention in 2016. It was within this context, and also within the context of the broader counterintelligence investigation, Crossfire Hurricane, that Flynn's lies became very suspicious and strange. If there was nothing wrong with the calls with Kislyak then why did Flynn lie about it? If Flynn lied, why wouldn't the FBI want to find out why he was lying?

Click to expand...

Whatever comnnections Flynn had with Russians were known when the FBI concluded he was not a Russian agent.
A conversation where as the FBI director himself stated no laws were broken or national security threat discerned doesn't change that conclusion.

Termn8or · Jun 1, 2020

W_Heisenberg said:
The FBI did the right thing in this case, and you guys are just regurgitating propaganda to protect your cult leader, and it's becoming a little tiresome.

We're "regurgitating propaganda?"

It's "getting tiresome?"

Can anyone spell I-R-O-N-Y?:lol::lol:

And if the FBI did "the right thing," why is a US Attorney investigating that whole abuse of power?

And is withholding exculpatory evidence "the right thing" by the FBI? No, it's obstruction of justice.

Yes, the Flynn Dismissal Upholds the Rule of Law
By DAVID HARSANYI
The Flynn prosecution was a transparent attack on the rule of law....

We now know that the Obama administration engaged in unprecedented abuses of power, not merely in its persistent attempts to circumvent the other branches of the United States government, but in its weaponizing of government institutions for partisan ends, including our intelligence agencies.

Flynn, notwithstanding Obama’s contention, was never charged with “perjury” — a crime which entails lying under oath. Flynn faced trumped-up charges related to a conversation in which he allegedly misled FBI agents. Flynn, who didn’t even know he was under investigation, was entrapped by agents conducting an inquiry devoid of any credible evidence.

....Not even the agents who conducted the interview believed that Flynn had willfully intended to deceive them. Flynn was only charged ten months after the conversation, and only to keep the bogus Russia collusion investigation going.

Even then, the FBI hid exculpatory evidence from Flynn and his lawyers, as Obama’s allies in the Trump administration and Mueller’s deputies continued to pretend that the former general was a linchpin.

Flynn initially pleaded guilty because he was facing bankruptcy and threats that his son would be prosecuted for unrelated crimes. Of course, even if Flynn had lied about an innocuous and complete legal conversation with the Russian ambassador in the midst of hysterical partisan-fueled media firestorm over “collusion,” it would have been irrelevant.

Considering these facts, it’s unsurprising that the Justice Department dropped its case against Flynn “with prejudice.” U.S. attorney Jeffrey Jensen found that investigation was “untethered to, and unjustified by, the FBI’s counterintelligence investigation.”

Jensen could have added that the Flynn prosecution was a transparent attack on the rule of law.
Michael Flynn & President Obama: Rule of Law Upheld | National Review

Athanasius68 · Jun 1, 2020

W_Heisenberg said:
Then why did Flynn lie about it to the Trump White House? And if Flynn had a reason to lie, wasn't it the job of the FBI to find out why?

Since there was nothing illegal or a national security threat in the transcript (and this is Comey saying this) whether he lied, or whether Pence lied, is of no business of the FBI.
There was no legal or national security issue. The FBI knew what was said and knew it was not a problem.
It was used an an excuse to try to gin up justification to continue the investigation into the Trump campaign for conspiracy with Russia.

Termn8or · Jun 1, 2020

W_Heisenberg said:
We now know there was likely no conspiracy with respect to the strict criminal law definition of conspiracy because there has been a thorough investigation and because people like Flynn cooperated.

that is a lie, and the best source to refute the lie is the Special Counsel's report.

The last place to look for the truth is that corrupt document. Mueller will be lucky not to be indicted.

Thankfully, the hapless Sessions is gone, and there's a new sheriff in town!:lol:

DOJ launches investigation into former top FBI officials James Comey, Peter Strzok, and Andrew McCabe
BY POLIZETTE STAFF
An official with the Department of Justice has confirmed that a new investigation has been launched into multiple former top FBI officials, including James Comey, Andrew McCabe, and Peter Strzok.....

All three of these officials played some kind of role in the investigation into President Donald Trump’s alleged collusion with Russia during the 2016 presidential election. The investigation ended with no evidence of collusion being found, much to the dismay of Democrats.

The new investigation is being led by Jeffrey Jensen, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri, who was picked by Attorney General William Barr. Weissman, who is now a legal analyst for NBC News, described the appointment of Jensen as “interesting” given the fact that the judge who presided over the case against retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn had shot down claims that Flynn was set up by the FBI after going over the facts of the investigation.....

Comey, McCabe, and Strzok have all shown time and time again that they are as crooked as they come.

We’re glad to see that the Department of Justice will be looking into them once again with this new investigation.
DOJ launches investigation into former top FBI officials James Comey, Peter Strzok, and Andrew McCabe

Athanasius68 · Jun 1, 2020

W_Heisenberg said:
You're right. It wasn't a criminal matter. It was a counterintelligence matter.

Well, they assumed that Flynn had lied to Pence.
They never asked Pence what Flynn said to him.

Termn8or · Jun 1, 2020

W_Heisenberg said:
The FBI decided to interview Flynn AFTER the FBI found out he lied to Trump White House officials about his conversations with Kislyak. At that point, the FBI became duty-bound to interview Flynn. At that point, Flynn became a security risk because the Russians had something on him the White House did not know. If what Flynn did wasn't a problem then why did he lie about it? And if he lied about it wasn't it the responsibility of the FBI to try and find out why he lied?

Garbage. Strzok texts reveal that the interview happened on a pretext on a request "from the seventh floor."

A criminal predicate is required for the FBI to conduct and interview, and they had none.

That's one of many reasons the case was dismissed.

Athanasius68 · Jun 1, 2020

Termn8or said:
Garbage. Strzok texts reveal that the interview happened on a pretext on a request "from the seventh floor."

A criminal predicate is required for the FBI to conduct and interview, and they had none.

That's one of many reasons the case was dismissed.

What that means is that there was no real supervision going on with the FBI into its investigation. It was being run by the leadership of the FBI and their supervisors (the political leadership at DOJ) did not adequately perform their supervisory jobs of the FBI leadership.

Slyfox696 · Jun 1, 2020

Athanasius68 said:
Since there was nothing illegal or a national security threat in the transcript (and this is Comey saying this) whether he lied, or whether Pence lied, is of no business of the FBI.
There was no legal or national security issue. The FBI knew what was said and knew it was not a problem.
It was used an an excuse to try to gin up justification to continue the investigation into the Trump campaign for conspiracy with Russia.

:lamo

So, just to be clear, you don't see a national security issue with the incoming National Security Advisor lying to the Vice President of the United States about an illegal phone call in which he had essentially offered aid and comfort to a country that had just broken our laws in their act of war against America?

I swear, Republicans say the stupidest things.

Termn8or · Jun 1, 2020

Athanasius68 said:
Termn8or said:

Garbage. Strzok texts reveal that the interview happened on a pretext on a request "from the seventh floor."

A criminal predicate is required for the FBI to conduct and interview, and they had none.

That's one of many reasons the case was dismissed.

Click to expand...

What that means is that there was no real supervision going on with the FBI into its investigation. It was being run by the leadership of the FBI and their supervisors (the political leadership at DOJ) did not adequately perform their supervisory jobs of the FBI leadership.

At first it appeared that almost all the corruption was in the leadership, but as more and more evidence comes out, it looks like much of the FBI was badly corrupted.

From what I've read, the worst was in its Counterintelligence Division.

There has been a lot of skepticism that serious indictments were going to happen, but at this point even skeptics are convinced there will be.

This is going to crash on the corrupt Democrat Party like a grand piano, and almost certainly before the election.

With certain individuals spamming disinformation every step of the way.

Termn8or · Jun 1, 2020

Slyfox696 said:
:lamo

So, just to be clear, you don't see a national security issue with the incoming National Security Advisor lying to the Vice President of the United States about an illegal phone call in which he had essentially offered aid and comfort to a country that had just broken our laws in their act of war against America?

I swear, Republicans say the stupidest things.

Garbage.

Cone back when you have at least a little idea about what the actual facts are.

There are three ongoing criminal investigations happening, and not of Trump or his officials.

Wake up.

Athanasius68 · Jun 1, 2020

Slyfox696 said:
:lamo

So, just to be clear, you don't see a national security issue with the incoming National Security Advisor lying to the Vice President of the United States about an illegal phone call in which he had essentially offered aid and comfort to a country that had just broken our laws in their act of war against America?

I swear, Republicans say the stupidest things.

There was nothing illegal about Flynn talking with Kisylak. That is a fact.

There is nothing illegal about lying to the vice president. That is a fact.
As such, it is of no business to the FBI.

The FBI had the tape and knew there was no national security threat with what Flynn said. That is a fact.

There was no aid and comfort offered to Russia. Flynn said Russia should respond proportionately.
Which I do not see how a reasonable person can find fault.

Athanasius68 · Jun 1, 2020

Termn8or said:
At first it appeared that almost all the corruption was in the leadership, but as more and more evidence comes out, it looks like much of the FBI was badly corrupted.

From what I've read, the worst was in its Counterintelligence Division.

There has been a lot of skepticism that serious indictments were going to happen, but at this point even skeptics are convinced there will be.

This is going to crash on the corrupt Democrat Party like a grand piano, and almost certainly before the election.

With certain individuals spamming disinformation every step of the way.

There are not going to be mass indictments. A few people will be.
Barr is correct; not every abuse of power is against the law and solving the problem of the politicization of the DOJ during the Obama Admin will not occur by doubling down on it during the Trump Admin.

Termn8or · Jun 1, 2020

Slyfox696 said:
:lamo

So, just to be clear, you don't see a national security issue with the incoming National Security Advisor lying to the Vice President of the United States about an illegal phone call in which he had essentially offered aid and comfort to a country that had just broken our laws in their act of war against America?

I swear, Republicans say the stupidest things.

Speaking of stupid, the call wasn't illegal.

The FBI found zero evidence that Flynn had broken any laws or done anything illegal regarding Russia.

No "aid and comfort" happened. What a stupid freaking claim to make against a 3-star general and American hero.

Pence now says he believes that Flynn was telling the truth.

Termn8or · Jun 1, 2020

Athanasius68 said:
Termn8or said:

At first it appeared that almost all the corruption was in the leadership, but as more and more evidence comes out, it looks like much of the FBI was badly corrupted.

From what I've read, the worst was in its Counterintelligence Division.

There has been a lot of skepticism that serious indictments were going to happen, but at this point even skeptics are convinced there will be.

This is going to crash on the corrupt Democrat Party like a grand piano, and almost certainly before the election.

With certain individuals spamming disinformation every step of the way.

Click to expand...

There are not going to be mass indictments. A few people will be.
Barr is correct; not every abuse of power is against the law and solving the problem of the politicization of the DOJ during the Obama Admin will not occur by doubling down on it during the Trump Admin.

This isn't about politicizing politics. There was an attempt to steal an election, then topple the duly elected president in a soft coup.

Repubs impeached Bill Clinton not for the Lewinsky-related felonies, but for his many abuses of power, crimes and impeachable acts.

Obama figured that because Clinton effectively got away with it, he'd go farther.

It almost worked, and these illegal tactics would never have stopped. We might well have lost our democracy, no kidding.

In additional to the many crimes committed, there was Conspiracy and perhaps Racketeering, i.e. RICO.

There have to be many indictments. I'd predict over a dozen, maybe many more.

And hopefully Obama will have to testify. It';s even possible he could face indictment.

It's time to get deadly serious against these abuses of power for the good of the country.

MTAtech · Jun 1, 2020

Termn8or said:
The last place to look for the truth is that corrupt document. Mueller will be lucky not to be indicted.

Thankfully, the hapless Sessions is gone, and there's a new sheriff in town!:lol:

The above post shows, in full display, the insanity of the far-right Trump cult. Somehow, the Special Prosecutors report can't be trusted, for unknown reasons, while none of the facts contained therein have been disputed. Moreover, Mueller should be indicted, according to Termn8or, for unknown crimes. I guess in Trumpworld findings that aren't to Trump's liking are crimes now.

Is it no doubt that we are going down an autocratic rabbit hole?

Athanasius68 · Jun 1, 2020

Termn8or said:
This isn't about politicizing politics. There was an attempt to steal an election, then topple the duly elected president in a soft coup.

Repubs impeached Bill Clinton not for the Lewinsky-related felonies, but for his many abuses of power, crimes and impeachable acts.

Obama figured that because Clinton effectively got away with it, he'd go farther.

It almost worked, and these illegal tactics would never have stopped. We might well have lost our democracy, no kidding.

In additional to the many crimes committed, there was Conspiracy and perhaps Racketeering, i.e. RICO.

There have to be many indictments. I'd predict over a dozen, maybe many more.

And hopefully Obama will have to testify. It';s even possible he could face indictment.

It's time to get deadly serious against these abuses of power for the good of the country.

Substituting a politicized investigation for the mother of all politicized investigations, seeking to indict Obama, will solve nothing.

Slyfox696 · Jun 1, 2020

Termn8or said:
Garbage.

Cone back when you have at least a little idea about what the actual facts are.

I'm well aware of the facts. I just provided you facts. You have chosen not to engage in them in your desire to vomit rhetoric.

Athanasius68 said:
There was nothing illegal about Flynn talking with Kisylak. That is a fact.

:lol:

It is quite literally a fact it WAS illegal for Flynn to talk with Kisylak about US policy. You pretending otherwise is simply a lie.

There is nothing illegal about lying to the vice president. That is a fact.

But it IS a national security issue. Which is what you said. Why are you trying to change your words now? Because you know what you said was a lie?

As such, it is of no business to the FBI.

Wait..are you saying interests of national security are not the business of the FBI? Seriously? :lol:

The FBI had the tape and knew there was no national security threat with what Flynn said.

:lol:

Republicans say the stupidest things.

There was no aid and comfort offered to Russia.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

C'mon, now you're just propagandizing. There's no way you actually believe this lie.

MTAtech · Jun 1, 2020

Termn8or said:
This isn't about politicizing politics. There was an attempt to steal an election, then topple the duly elected president in a soft coup.

Repubs impeached Bill Clinton not for the Lewinsky-related felonies, but for his many abuses of power, crimes and impeachable acts.

Obama figured that because Clinton effectively got away with it, he'd go farther.

It almost worked, and these illegal tactics would never have stopped. We might well have lost our democracy, no kidding.

In additional to the many crimes committed, there was Conspiracy and perhaps Racketeering, i.e. RICO.

There have to be many indictments. I'd predict over a dozen, maybe many more.

And hopefully Obama will have to testify. It';s even possible he could face indictment.

It's time to get deadly serious against these abuses of power for the good of the country.

"Stealing the election" was exactly what Trump and Company did. Not only did the Mueller Report conclude there was massive Russian interference on Trump's behalf, so did the Republican Senate concluded the same thing.

Senate Intel report confirms Russia aimed to help Trump in 2016

Athanasius68 said:
There was nothing illegal about Flynn talking with Kisylak. That is a fact.

Flynn talking to Kisylak was quite material regarding national security. Lying to the FBI that he didn't talk to him was a crime.

Athanasius68 · Jun 1, 2020

MTAtech said:
The above post shows, in full display, the insanity of the far-right Trump cult. Somehow, the Special Prosecutors report can't be trusted, for unknown reasons, while none of the facts contained therein have been disputed. Moreover, Mueller should be indicted, according to Termn8or, for unknown crimes. I guess in Trumpworld findings that aren't to Trump's liking are crimes now.

Is it no doubt that we are going down an autocratic rabbit hole?

Its not so much that the report is not to be trusted, its that the evidence that keeps coming out shows its pointlessness. We now know that the none of the Obama DOJ and DNI saw evidence to suggest there was a conspiracy, which as a practical matter means that Mueller's inability to conclude a conspiracy occurred is due to the fact none existed. As opposed to obstruction or perjury as heretofore been the argument.

Termn8or · Jun 1, 2020

Athanasius68 said:
Termn8or said:

This isn't about politicizing politics. There was an attempt to steal an election, then topple the duly elected president in a soft coup.

Repubs impeached Bill Clinton not for the Lewinsky-related felonies, but for his many abuses of power, crimes and impeachable acts.

Obama figured that because Clinton effectively got away with it, he'd go farther.

It almost worked, and these illegal tactics would never have stopped. We might well have lost our democracy, no kidding.

In additional to the many crimes committed, there was Conspiracy and perhaps Racketeering, i.e. RICO.

There have to be many indictments. I'd predict over a dozen, maybe many more.

And hopefully Obama will have to testify. It';s even possible he could face indictment.

It's time to get deadly serious against these abuses of power for the good of the country.

Click to expand...

Substituting a politicized investigation for the mother of all politicized investigations, seeking to indict Obama, will solve nothing.

How is prosecuting serious crimes "politicizing" anything?

Perjury.

Obstruction of justice.

Illegal wiretapping.

Lying to Congress.

Conspiracy.

If crimes are not prosecuted, criminals will fearlessly commit them again at some point in the near future.

Just like Obama and his conspirators did after they saw Clinton get off with zero repercussion for his abuses of power, impeachable acts and non-Lewinsky crimes.

Termn8or · Jun 1, 2020

MTAtech said:
Termn8or said:

The last place to look for the truth is that corrupt document. Mueller will be lucky not to be indicted.

Thankfully, the hapless Sessions is gone, and there's a new sheriff in town!:lol:

Click to expand...

The above post shows, in full display, the insanity of the far-right Trump cult. Somehow, the Special Prosecutors report can't be trusted, for unknown reasons, while none of the facts contained therein have been disputed. Moreover, Mueller should be indicted, according to Termn8or, for unknown crimes. I guess in Trumpworld findings that aren't to Trump's liking are crimes now.

Is it no doubt that we are going down an autocratic rabbit hole?

Your silly claims show in full display the ignorance liberals typically display.

The information in the Mueller Report has been disputed in great detail.

At least three of Mueller's hacks are under criminal investigation.

Many of the crimes are known; obstruction of justice.

Perjury.

Tampering with evidence.

Illegal surveillance.

Conspiracy.

Lying to Congress.

And much, much more.

Not all by Mueller and his corrupt team, but they were an integral part of the biggest abuse of power in US history.

Not that liberals have the slightest idea about the evidence.

Athanasius68 · Jun 1, 2020

[

QUOTE=Slyfox696;1071981365]

It is quite literally a fact it WAS illegal for Flynn to talk with Kisylak about US policy. You pretending otherwise is simply a lie.

It actually isn't illegal for Kisylak and Flynn to talk about policy.
Claiming otherwise is simply an error on your part.

But it IS a national security issue. Which is what you said. Why are you trying to change your words now? Because you know what you said was a lie?

Its an administration and personnel problem, obviously. Its not a good situation where the NSC director cannot properly communicate information.
That isn't an FBI issue.

As we know, the FBI knew what was said. And we know they saw no national security or criminal issue with it.

Wait..are you saying interests of national security are not the business of the FBI? Seriously? :lol:
:lol:

The FBI said it wasn't a national security issue.
Not clear why you claim otherwise.

Athanasius68 · Jun 1, 2020

Termn8or said:
How is prosecuting serious crimes "politicizing" anything?

Perjury.

Obstruction of justice.

Illegal wiretapping.

Lying to Congress.

Conspiracy.

If crimes are not prosecuted, criminals will fearlessly commit them again at some point in the near future.

Just like Obama and his conspirators did after they saw Clinton get off with zero repercussion for his abuses of power, impeachable acts and non-Lewinsky crimes.

Not every abuse of power is against the law.