US weekly jobless claims hit 2.4 million, bringing the 9-week total to nearly 39 million

HumblePi said:

Here's a very simple explanation for the increase in jobless claims despite businesses re-opening. Companies took billions of dollars in relief money from the US, with those funds, they bought stock buy-backs, dividends, etc. Then they turned around and laid off workers that had just returned to the workplace.

Click to expand...

This is simply not true. Why are you so invested in spreading a blatant lie?

Kushinator said:

This is simply not true. Why are you so invested in spreading a blatant lie?

Click to expand...

This happened in previous corporate bailouts, Trump said it himself! Do you STILL believe him, or not?

Trump slams companies for using U.S. tax credit to buy back stocks

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday took Boeing Co (BA.N) and some airlines to task for buying back shares with the cash boost from a 2018 tax break, vowing to ensure that companies benefiting from coronavirus stimulus won’t follow suit.

Corporations buy back their own shares as a way to invest in themselves. By reducing the number of outstanding shares, a company can boost its stock price, and it is one way corporations add value for shareholders.

Earlier this week, Trump said he did not like share buybacks, when asked by reporters if they would be permitted by a stimulus package being hashed out in Congress to help the American economy recover from the coronavirus.

The Republican president doubled down on his comments on Friday, when asked by a reporter during a news conference if the buybacks like those by Boeing and some airlines were a “deal breaker” for him.

Trump slams companies for using U.S. tax credit to buy back stocks - Reuters

Some Companies Seeking Bailouts Had Piles of Cash, Then Spent It - The New York Times

Some Companies Seeking Bailouts Had Piles of Cash, Then Spent It

They poured the money into stock buybacks and dividends. Now, those hurting from the pandemic want government aid.

COVID-19 stimulus proposals revive stock buyback debate - Marketplace

COVID-19 stimulus proposals revive stock buyback debate

As Congress continues to hammer out the details of a proposed trillion-dollar stimulus package, one question is what kind of strings to attach to any corporate bailout money.

Democrats — along with consumer and labor advocates — are pushing for a ban on share buybacks as a condition of any financial assistance. And though many Republicans are opposed, President Donald Trump says he’s “OK” with such a condition.

Companies spent billions of dollars after the 2017 tax cuts doing exactly that — buying back their own stock at the expense of spending on research and development or paying higher wages.

HumblePi said:

This happened in previous corporate bailouts, Trump said it himself! Do you STILL believe him, or not?

Trump slams companies for using U.S. tax credit to buy back stocks

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday took Boeing Co (BA.N) and some airlines to task for buying back shares with the cash boost from a 2018 tax break, vowing to ensure that companies benefiting from coronavirus stimulus won’t follow suit.

Corporations buy back their own shares as a way to invest in themselves. By reducing the number of outstanding shares, a company can boost its stock price, and it is one way corporations add value for shareholders.

Earlier this week, Trump said he did not like share buybacks, when asked by reporters if they would be permitted by a stimulus package being hashed out in Congress to help the American economy recover from the coronavirus.

The Republican president doubled down on his comments on Friday, when asked by a reporter during a news conference if the buybacks like those by Boeing and some airlines were a “deal breaker” for him.

Trump slams companies for using U.S. tax credit to buy back stocks - Reuters

Some Companies Seeking Bailouts Had Piles of Cash, Then Spent It - The New York Times

Some Companies Seeking Bailouts Had Piles of Cash, Then Spent It

They poured the money into stock buybacks and dividends. Now, those hurting from the pandemic want government aid.

COVID-19 stimulus proposals revive stock buyback debate - Marketplace

COVID-19 stimulus proposals revive stock buyback debate

As Congress continues to hammer out the details of a proposed trillion-dollar stimulus package, one question is what kind of strings to attach to any corporate bailout money.

Democrats — along with consumer and labor advocates — are pushing for a ban on share buybacks as a condition of any financial assistance. And though many Republicans are opposed, President Donald Trump says he’s “OK” with such a condition.

Companies spent billions of dollars after the 2017 tax cuts doing exactly that — buying back their own stock at the expense of spending on research and development or paying higher wages.

Click to expand...

This is the 2018 tax cut not the recent stimulus payments and PPP. Stop spreading false information

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Conservative said:

Pretty easy to do, you see cultists buy rhetoric and Trump supporters results. stunning how poorly informed you are promoting what you are being told. I asked you to explain the liberal ideology and you refused. I posted the Trump results and you ignored them. What would you call that other than a cult like attitude on your part

You see, Trump followers believe in personal responsibilities and the freedoms we have. Liberals like you need someone else to tell you what to do and then use scare tactics to take away freedoms, which one is a cultist?

Click to expand...

No, I did not 'refuse' to explain 'liberal ideology', I simply refuse to discuss anything of that nature with you specifically. As I have already explained to you, I do not open any of your links, nor do I consider any of your 'data or results'. That's just the way it is as far as your concerned.

HumblePi said:

This happened in previous corporate bailouts, Trump said it himself! Do you STILL believe him, or not?

Click to expand...

Here is the claim in the OP:

HumblePi said:

Here's a very simple explanation for the increase in jobless claims despite businesses re-opening. Companies took billions of dollars in relief money from the US, with those funds, they bought stock buy-backs, dividends, etc. Then they turned around and laid off workers that had just returned to the workplace.

Click to expand...

This is demonstrably false.

Are you ready to retract this statement?

I may have missed it, but there is another source of continued lays and that is due to a lack of revenue many State and Local Government workers are being laid off, and will continue to be.
The on-going layoffs are one reason Washington is going to have to extend federal unemployment benefits and most likely at least one more stimulous check. To do otherwise is to face an angry voter base and the high likelihood of them being out of work themselves next year.

Kushinator said:

Here is the claim in the OP:



This is demonstrably false.

Are you ready to retract this statement?

Click to expand...

Prove it's false, and I may consider your justification and retract it.

HumblePi said:

Prove it's false, and I may consider your justification and retract it.

Click to expand...

You realize that you're asking me to prove a negative? It's your statement... the burden of proof falls upon the one making the claim. Nowhere in this entire failure of a thread did you provide a single reference that substantiates your claim.

Had you bothered to even research the subject casually, you would be at least aware there are stipulations, and perhaps even know the stipulations regarding PPA loans.

It's ****ty when Trump supporters lie and make up stuff, and equally (dare i say even more) ****ty when the anti-Trump crowd does it. Such behavior drives independents into the arms of the GOP.

Kushinator said:

You realize that you're asking me to prove a negative? It's your statement... the burden of proof falls upon the one making the claim. Nowhere in this entire failure of a thread did you provide a single reference that substantiates your claim.

Had you bothered to even research the subject casually, you would be at least aware there are stipulations, and perhaps even know the stipulations regarding PPA loans.

It's ****ty when Trump supporters lie and make up stuff, and equally (dare i say even more) ****ty when the anti-Trump crowd does it. Such behavior drives independents into the arms of the GOP.

Click to expand...

Let me give you a glance into the real world of Washington politics maybe it will open up your eyes a little bit, take the blinders off. Mitch McConnell brings the Senate back every week and they arrive in big black SUVs. The police, secret service, custodians and food service people don't arrive at the Capital in big black SUVs . They get there in ways that is exposing them to the virus every week. But McConnell is doing absolutely nothing to protect those workers and those laid off. He's unwilling to do anything to help those people that he deems as being 'essential workers' that are showing up for work every day for their jobs in grocery stores, hospitals, city transportation, sanitation workers, etc. He calls them 'essential' but in reality, they're expendable to Mitch McConnell. All he's focused on is appointing inexperienced and unqualified right-leaning white judges to the bench.

Mitch McConnell wants to protect the owners of the meat processing plants from the liability of being sued by workers if they contract Covid-19. He doesn't really give two cents for those people who are putting their own lives and that of their families in danger. He doesn't want to pass any bills that would give those workers who have been laid off more money to live on. Both Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell have been outspokenly opposed to giving those people laid off by this pandemic a few extra bucks every week to supplement their unemployment benefit. It doesn't need any explanation as to why they think that's fair. The republicans really don't care about the American people, they care about American corporations, the same corporations that took their multi-billion dollar aid package in 2018 and spent it -- not on shoring up their infrastructure and getting leaner, but instead buying back their own stock and paying stockholders huge dividends. Mitch McConnell will protect corporate employers at all cost.

Trump finally invoked the Defense Production Act, something he refused to do to scale up the testing or providing protective equipment for millions of front line workers that are exposed to the virus every day at work. No, he wouldn't invoke that act for them, but he did invoke the Defense Production Act for these slaughterhouses to reopen saying nothing at all about food safety, says nothing about slowing the line down so workers can work more safely, does nothing about getting these workers any protective equipment. He just wants it open, period. Stacey Abrams said "Trump is more interesting in the stock market than the supermarket", and that's pretty clear that it's true, he is more interested in corporations and their stocks than he is about the health and safety of the people that keep those corporations functioning. Now he and Mitch want to absolve those corporations of any liability from people that may get ill with the virus working in those forcibly re-opening slaughterhouses and meat packing plants.

This flies in the face of OSHA which is a method of protecting workers. He and Mitch betray American workers day after day after day. This country can't get up and running by ordering people to return to work. The only way we're going to recover is when people actually feel safe returning to work and that's going to require testing, providing people with a safe work environment and PPE.

HumblePi said:

Let me give you a glance into the real world of Washington politics maybe it will open up your eyes a little bit, take the blinders off.

Click to expand...

So this is a Mitch McConnell rant thread? That's fine and all, but you shouldn't make a good portion of your commentary based around something that's not true.

Educate yourself

That's three posts now in which you refused to even address your false claim:

HumblePi said:

Here's a very simple explanation for the increase in jobless claims despite businesses re-opening. Companies took billions of dollars in relief money from the US, with those funds, they bought stock buy-backs, dividends, etc. Then they turned around and laid off workers that had just returned to the workplace.

Click to expand...

HumblePi said:

Prove it's false, and I may consider your justification and retract it.

Click to expand...

Actually YOU made the original claim....

Companies took billions of dollars in relief money from the US, with those funds, they bought stock buy-backs, dividends, etc. Then they turned around and laid off workers that had just returned to the workplace.

Prove it.

bluesmoke said:

The News In Cartoons (updated May 22)


Do you believe Americans should not get extended unemployment benefits? If not, why not?

Click to expand...

I don't know what the program you cite provides and what qualifications are used to certify the need of the unemployed individuals.

I know that qualifiers for Unemployment Insurance to pay out in "normal" times depend on the circumstance(s) of the termination, not the level of need of the person.

Also, that the responsibility for this is regulated at the State level. MA Pays a whole bunch more to individuals than does MS to cite two examples of state level regulation and conduct.

I'm not even sure why this is being discussed at the Federal level.

HumblePi said:

No, I did not 'refuse' to explain 'liberal ideology', I simply refuse to discuss anything of that nature with you specifically. As I have already explained to you, I do not open any of your links, nor do I consider any of your 'data or results'. That's just the way it is as far as your concerned.

Click to expand...

What a brilliant liberal strategy, ignore anything that flies in the face of what you want to believe ignoring actual verifiable results. What is it about liberalism that creates people like you. You show just how poorly informed you are with your failure to understand the difference between the 2018 tax cuts and PPP/CV Stimulus payments

Then apparently you aren't mature enough to admit being wrong!

Fledermaus said:

Actually YOU made the original claim....

Companies took billions of dollars in relief money from the US, with those funds, they bought stock buy-backs, dividends, etc. Then they turned around and laid off workers that had just returned to the workplace.

Prove it.

Click to expand...

Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem because I subsequently cleared that up and posted several links to articles proving this fact and both were in regard to bailout funds corporations had received in previous bailout packages in 2018 and 2019. Here, I'll even do the work for you and post just one more link. Please try to read it.

The Stock Buyback Binge May Be Over. For Now. - The New York Times

The coronavirus pandemic has brought a sudden halt to one of corporate America’s favorite pursuits: the share buyback.

Two years ago, a tax overhaul package left big businesses flush with cash and touched off a record binge of companies scooping up their own shares, which helped push stock prices higher.

That’s all over for now.

The spreading outbreak has sent stocks down about 30 percent in the past month, triggered millions of layoffs and prompted the Federal Reserve to pump trillions of dollars into the economy to prevent collapse. And companies are navigating a rapidly shifting landscape — one in which spending cash to buy back their own shares is both politically and economically untenable.

Over the weekend, as Congress worked to fashion a $1.8 trillion stimulus package for the economy, President Trump lent his support to provisions in the bill meant to block companies that receive federal money from using it to buy back shares.

HumblePi said:

Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem because I subsequently cleared that up and posted several links to articles proving this fact and both were in regard to bailout funds corporations had received in previous bailout packages in 2018 and 2019. Here, I'll even do the work for you and post just one more link. Please try to read it.

The Stock Buyback Binge May Be Over. For Now. - The New York Times

The coronavirus pandemic has brought a sudden halt to one of corporate America’s favorite pursuits: the share buyback.

Two years ago, a tax overhaul package left big businesses flush with cash and touched off a record binge of companies scooping up their own shares, which helped push stock prices higher.

That’s all over for now.

The spreading outbreak has sent stocks down about 30 percent in the past month, triggered millions of layoffs and prompted the Federal Reserve to pump trillions of dollars into the economy to prevent collapse. And companies are navigating a rapidly shifting landscape — one in which spending cash to buy back their own shares is both politically and economically untenable.

Over the weekend, as Congress worked to fashion a $1.8 trillion stimulus package for the economy, President Trump lent his support to provisions in the bill meant to block companies that receive federal money from using it to buy back shares.

Click to expand...

I know you are a biased liberal when you compare tax cuts to the stimulus bailouts as you have been now told by at least three different posters. Keeping more of what you earn comes from a tax cut, getting a bailout is federal tax dollars going to corporations and individuals. We cannot have people keeping more of what they earn, now can we, nor can we have federal tax dollars going to to businesses to make payroll that isn't being funded by consumers due to the economic shutdown. I can see NY intelligence in your posts

HumblePi said:

As I've already said, it was the second relief bill for corporations that they spent that money on their buy-backs and stock dividends. This last bill has restrictions attached to prevent that.

Companies that binged on buybacks now seek bailouts from taxpayers - CNN

Airlines are begging for a bailout, but they've used 96% of their cash flow on buybacks over the past 10 years. It highlights an ongoing controversy over how companies have been spending their money. | Markets Insider

Airlines are begging for a bailout, but they've used 96% of their cash flow on buybacks over the past 10 years. It highlights an ongoing controversy over how companies have been spending their money.

As far as crippling pension funds, yes those states and many others are financially strapped due to extensive pension funding. Nevertheless, the state of Kentucky has just about the worse record when it comes to deficits, yet it was Mitch McConnell who stated that the blue states should just go bankrupt.

Click to expand...

There was a discussion at the Federal Level seeking to assure that the Stock Buy Backs engaged in during past years be prohibited with spending monitored in this go-round.

If you are referencing that issue which was already addressed by the bill allocating funds, I don't understand why you made the reference. If you are saying it's happening again, I'd like to see the link.

Regarding McConnell saying that states that are bankrupt should declare bankruptcy, this seems akin to looking at a flat tire and saying, "Yup, it's flat."

I don't know what the exact effect of this might be on current pensioners, but it seems pretty obvious that any state needs to use a less insane approach going forward and get out of the pension business and use the 401K model.

Asking governments to act in ways that are less insane seems like a pretty big ask.

Conservative said:

What a brilliant liberal strategy, ignore anything that flies in the face of what you want to believe ignoring actual verifiable results. What is it about liberalism that creates people like you. You show just how poorly informed you are with your failure to understand the difference between the 2018 tax cuts and PPP/CV Stimulus payments

Then apparently you aren't mature enough to admit being wrong!

Click to expand...

HumblePi said:

Click to expand...

We now have 4 posters pointing out your error and still you won't admit it which is why you have zero credibility. Stock buybacks have nothing to do with the coronavirus stimulus payments and PPP

Kushinator said:

The economy is ****ed, even if we didn't quarantine and enact social distancing guidelines. People are afraid to go out... and rightly so. No amount of free $1200 checks is going to change this.

It will be a nation dominated by Walmart, Amazon, Costco, and Kroger.

Click to expand...

I suppose we'll see.

I just had lunch yesterday in a trendy area of Indianapolis, Mass Ave, and saw a few store fronts empty after 10 weeks of shut-down.

It's a shame what has happened.

I hope the recovery is quick and complete.

HumblePi said:

Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem because I subsequently cleared that up and posted several links to articles proving this fact and both were in regard to bailout funds corporations had received in previous bailout packages in 2018 and 2019. Here, I'll even do the work for you and post just one more link. Please try to read it.

The Stock Buyback Binge May Be Over. For Now. - The New York Times

The coronavirus pandemic has brought a sudden halt to one of corporate America’s favorite pursuits: the share buyback.

Two years ago, a tax overhaul package left big businesses flush with cash and touched off a record binge of companies scooping up their own shares, which helped push stock prices higher.

That’s all over for now.

The spreading outbreak has sent stocks down about 30 percent in the past month, triggered millions of layoffs and prompted the Federal Reserve to pump trillions of dollars into the economy to prevent collapse. And companies are navigating a rapidly shifting landscape — one in which spending cash to buy back their own shares is both politically and economically untenable.

Over the weekend, as Congress worked to fashion a $1.8 trillion stimulus package for the economy, President Trump lent his support to provisions in the bill meant to block companies that receive federal money from using it to buy back shares.

Click to expand...

The first sentence...

The coronavirus pandemic has brought a sudden halt to one of corporate America’s favorite pursuits: the share buyback

What does halt mean?

code1211 said:

There was a discussion at the Federal Level seeking to assure that the Stock Buy Backs engaged in during past years be prohibited with spending monitored in this go-round.

If you are referencing that issue which was already addressed by the bill allocating funds, I don't understand why you made the reference. If you are saying it's happening again, I'd like to see the link.

Regarding McConnell saying that states that are bankrupt should declare bankruptcy, this seems akin to looking at a flat tire and saying, "Yup, it's flat."

I don't know what the exact effect of this might be on current pensioners, but it seems pretty obvious that any state needs to use a less insane approach going forward and get out of the pension business and use the 401K model.

Asking governments to act in ways that are less insane seems like a pretty big ask.

Click to expand...

Correction, I did not say it was happening again, I referenced past problems with the corporate stock buybacks and dividends being paid out to stockholders with US bailout money. Incidentally, this was a 2 Trillion dollar package - that's trillion with a T. Do you believe there's going to be adequate oversight of 2 trillion dollars? Do we have anyone left in government that's responsible for any oversight?

Coronavirus Relief Package Passed By Senate : NPR

[snip] There are also provisions to ban stock buybacks for the term of government assistance, plus an additional year for any company receiving a government loan from the bill. In addition, it establishes worker protections attached to federal loans for businesses, and it prohibits airlines from using the funds for CEO bonuses.

Conservative said:

We now have 4 posters pointing out your error and still you won't admit it which is why you have zero credibility. Stock buybacks have nothing to do with the coronavirus stimulus payments and PPP

Click to expand...

Fledermaus said:

The first sentence...

The coronavirus pandemic has brought a sudden halt to one of corporate America’s favorite pursuits: the share buyback

What does halt mean?

Click to expand...

why is it necessary for me to keep repeating the same thing to you over and over. I even posted the link and the actual text that states that Congress put it in the newest bill that corporations will not be allowed to steal the money for their own stock buy backs as they have done multiple times over the past two years? How many times do I really need to keep drilling this into you?

HumblePi said:

why is it necessary for me to keep repeating the same thing to you over and over. I even posted the link and the actual text that states that Congress put it in the newest bill that corporations will not be allowed to steal the money for their own stock buy backs as they have done multiple times over the past two years? How many times do I really need to keep drilling this into you?

Click to expand...

Repeating false information doesn't magically make it true.

Here's a very simple explanation for the increase in jobless claims despite businesses re-opening. Companies took billions of dollars in relief money from the US, with those funds, they bought stock buy-backs, dividends, etc. Then they turned around and laid off workers that had just returned to the workplace. The US govt again helped bail out big corporations just as it bailed out the banks that were 'too big to fail' during the financial crisis in 2008.

The jobless claims here and now are COVID related.

Both the COVID money and future legislation PROHIBITS buyback.

What was the jobless rate prior to COVID?

Fledermaus said:

Repeating false information doesn't magically make it true.

Here's a very simple explanation for the increase in jobless claims despite businesses re-opening. Companies took billions of dollars in relief money from the US, with those funds, they bought stock buy-backs, dividends, etc. Then they turned around and laid off workers that had just returned to the workplace. The US govt again helped bail out big corporations just as it bailed out the banks that were 'too big to fail' during the financial crisis in 2008.

The jobless claims here and now are COVID related.

Both the COVID money and future legislation PROHIBITS buyback.

What was the jobless rate prior to COVID?

Click to expand...

As I have stated countless times, the ban on corporations from using relief fund to buy back their own stock was a sticking point in Congress. Of course, the issue held up the bill and ultimately a rider was put in that would prohibit this common practice from recent years of corporate bailouts. As far as the unemployment rate, it will undoubtedly rise, because yes.... corporations are going to lay off more people no matter what you say. Once again, I'll repeat. Layoffs will rise because corporations will no longer have the safety net of being able to bolster up their company for stockholders and the only way they can remain profitable is by laying off more people.

White House economic advisor Kevin Hassett says unemployment rate will approach Great Depression

Speaking to reporters on the White House lawn on Sunday morning, Hassett said the unemployment rate could hit 16% and “the next couple of months are going to be terrible” for economic data.
Hassett described the coronavirus shutdown as “the biggest negative shock that our economy I think has ever seen.”
“You’re going to see numbers as bad as we’ve ever seen,” Hassett said.

White House economic advisor Kevin Hassett warned on Sunday that unemployment could hit levels not seen since the Great Depression as the economy contracts dramatically while businesses in most parts of the nation remain shuttered due to the coronavirus pandemic.

Speaking to reporters on the White House lawn on Sunday morning, Hassett said the unemployment rate could hit 16% and “the next couple of months are going to be terrible” for economic data.

“We see an unemployment rate that approaches rates we saw during the Great Depression,” Hassett told ABC’s “This Week.” “During the Great Recession we lost 8.7 million jobs in the whole thing. Now we’re losing that many every 10 days, so the lift for economic policy makers is an extraordinary one.”