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Trump Steps Up Attacks on Mail Vote, Making False Claims About Michigan

Deuce said:
I see, so if there's evidence that the Russian government made any effort whatsoever to influence our elections, I must immediately accept any and all notions of election interference from Russia even when you, sanman, provide no evidence. And you want to talk about jokes? :lamo

Now, please, you've added a new bit: "without audit trails?" Can you elaborate on what you mean by that, and show me who is objecting to a measure like that?
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Hahaha - you're not very good at this, are you?

Deuce: Trump didn't win in 2016! Russians tampered with our elections!
Me: Why would they do this now, when other elections have been okay?
Deuce: Because you can't trust those dirty evil Russians! They're capable of anything!
Me: So what about your support of mail-in ballots? Wouldn't that invite tampering?
Deuce: Look man, you gotta stop accusing those poor Russians! They're entitled to presumption of innocence, for heaven's sakes!
Me: But what about what you just said before...
Deuce: Stop with the whataboutery man! I'll decide what Russians can do or can't do!

:roll:



Deuce: Kavanaugh is a rapist! Christine Blasey Ford said so!
Me: How do we know her accusation is true?
Deuce: Stop doubting women, man! You gotta believe women when they make accusations!
Me: What about the latest accusations against Biden?
Deuce: Stop the whataboutery man! You can't just believe women anytime they make accusations! I'll decide when women should be believed!

:roll:



Are you some kind of satirist playing a satirical character?
 
sanman said:
My original comment was pointing out that those who truly believed in a threat by Russia against the US electoral system would then see mail-in ballots as likewise being an election tampering vulnerability.
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Why would we believe that if 1) the Russians are going to or did tamper with computer counting systems, or computer vote lists, that 2) casting votes on paper by mail increases tampering vulnerability. It makes no sense.

Just for example, I vote on computers that have no audit trial, no paper trail. For all I know when I cast a vote for a Democrat, it changes my vote to one for Mickey Mouse or Smoky, the UT mascot, or deletes it, or casts every 4th vote for a Democrat for the Republican in the race. As I see it casting a vote on paper by mail REDUCES the chance of election fraud, not increases it. If Russia corrupts the computer count, the votes on paper can be counted by hand, by anyone who can add. It's why I think all votes should be on paper, because they leave an audit trail any idiot can follow, and no one can alter a paper ballot from Moscow or Ukraine or Florida...

But of course they don't themselves believe in a Russian menace to the US electoral system - it's all just hollow rhetoric - and that's why such concerns wouldn't be reflected in their stance on mail-in ballots.

Your dishonest hairsplitting is absurd and totally lacking in credibility.
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The two concerns are entirely and completely unrelated. It's not splitting hairs to point out your position is literally nonsensical, comparing apples and octopuses.

FWIW, anyone, and especially anyone involved in the computer systems that are the backbone of our elections, who does not take seriously the risk of bad actors whether they be Russians or the Chinese or domestic bad actors hacking those systems and disrupting or stealing an election is an idiot, a moron, too stupid to tie his or her own shoes, and sure as hell should not be anywhere near any election.

Those concerns have exactly nothing whatsoever to do with mail in voting on PAPER BALLOTS. You might have a point if the proposal was vote by email, or vote by computer, but paper =/= email or computer.
 
JustHanging said:
From someone who would know:

Trump ‘despises’ his own supporters and would be ‘disgusted’ by them, says ex-friend Howard Stern | The Independent
American radio show host Howard Stern has said that Donald Trump supporters are the people the president “despises most”.


Surely that's obvious to everyone? He's constantly trolling them, having them argue against their stated values and principles on an almost daily basis. And that's why I believe Trump was dead serious when he called his base poorly educated. He was mocking them.
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Same from day one, the strange thing is people keep pointing it out to them and trump himself proves it daily yet they either cannot see it or they really are that stupid.
 
sanman said:
How do you know? Are you working with the Russians? Do you have some special agreement with them, to ensure they won't tamper with that?

Libs: Don't trust the 2016 elections! Russians tampered with them!
Also Libs: Gotta have mail-in ballots without audit trails! But don't be concerned about possible tampering - that'd just be paranoid delusion!

Hahaha - what a joke you people are! No wonder you people babble phrases like "whataboutery" - you can't be bothered to deal with your non-stop double standards for one moment
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It is obvious you do not have a clue how mail in ballots work, because how can a paper ballot not have an "audit trail" when any reasonably smart 1st grader can count paper ballots.

Besides, it's good enough for Donald and Melania, and for the military, but not for the rest of us? How's that work? What's the principle? It's OK if you are more likely to vote Republican?
 
sanman said:
Hahaha - you're not very good at this, are you?

Deuce: Trump didn't win in 2016! Russians tampered with our elections!
Me: Why would they do this now, when other elections have been okay?
Deuce: Because you can't trust those dirty evil Russians! They're capable of anything!
Me: So what about your support of mail-in ballots? Wouldn't that invite tampering?
Deuce: Look man, you gotta stop accusing those poor Russians! They're entitled to presumption of innocence, for heaven's sakes!
Me: But what about what you just said before...
Deuce: Stop with the whataboutery man! I'll decide what Russians can do or can't do!

:roll:



Deuce: Kavanaugh is a rapist! Christine Blasey Ford said so!
Me: How do we know her accusation is true?
Deuce: Stop doubting women, man! You gotta believe women when they make accusations!
Me: What about the latest accusations against Biden?
Deuce: Stop the whataboutery man! You can't just believe women anytime they make accusations! I'll decide when women should be believed!

:roll:



Are you some kind of satirist playing a satirical character?
Click to expand...

You've used my name in this little play you wrote but I haven't actually said any of these things in my life, you ****ing liar.
 
Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroit’s precincts

Voting machines in more than one-third of all Detroit precincts registered more votes than they should have during last month’s presidential election, according to Wayne County records prepared at the request of The Detroit News.

Detailed reports from the office of Wayne County Clerk Cathy Garrett show optical scanners at 248 of the city’s 662 precincts, or 37 percent, tabulated more ballots than the number of voters tallied by workers in the poll books. Voting irregularities in Detroit have spurred plans for an audit by Michigan Secretary of State Ruth Johnson’s office, Elections Director Chris Thomas said Monday.

Democrat Hillary Clinton overwhelmingly prevailed in Detroit and Wayne County. But Republican President-elect Donald Trump won Michigan by 10,704 votes or 47.5 percent to 47.3 percent.

Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroit’s precincts


VOTER FRAUD: Michigan City Clerk Charged With Altering Hundreds Of 2018 Midterm Ballots

VOTER FRAUD: Michigan City Clerk Charged With Altering Hundreds Of 2018 Midterm Ballots

National Review's Jack Crowe reports that a Michigan city clerk, honored with a prestigious award by the state Democratic Party just this year, has been charged with six felony counts after being accused of altering 193 ballots during the 2018 midterm elections.

Sherikia Hawkins, a registered Democrat who earns more than $100,000 on the taxpayer's dime, "was arraigned Monday in Southfield on charges including falsifying returns or records, forgery of a public record, misconduct in office, and multiple counts of using a computer to commit a crime," reports Crowe.

Her arrest came after the Oakland County Clerk’s Office noticed that the ballots had "been changed to reflect that the voters failed to include a valid signature or return date, when all of the implicated voters had in fact included both items." The original ballots were later discovered in the trash.
 
Common Sense 1 said:
Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroit’s precincts

Voting machines in more than one-third of all Detroit precincts registered more votes than they should have during last month’s presidential election, according to Wayne County records prepared at the request of The Detroit News.

Detailed reports from the office of Wayne County Clerk Cathy Garrett show optical scanners at 248 of the city’s 662 precincts, or 37 percent, tabulated more ballots than the number of voters tallied by workers in the poll books. Voting irregularities in Detroit have spurred plans for an audit by Michigan Secretary of State Ruth Johnson’s office, Elections Director Chris Thomas said Monday.

Democrat Hillary Clinton overwhelmingly prevailed in Detroit and Wayne County. But Republican President-elect Donald Trump won Michigan by 10,704 votes or 47.5 percent to 47.3 percent.

Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroit’s precincts


VOTER FRAUD: Michigan City Clerk Charged With Altering Hundreds Of 2018 Midterm Ballots

VOTER FRAUD: Michigan City Clerk Charged With Altering Hundreds Of 2018 Midterm Ballots

National Review's Jack Crowe reports that a Michigan city clerk, honored with a prestigious award by the state Democratic Party just this year, has been charged with six felony counts after being accused of altering 193 ballots during the 2018 midterm elections.

Sherikia Hawkins, a registered Democrat who earns more than $100,000 on the taxpayer's dime, "was arraigned Monday in Southfield on charges including falsifying returns or records, forgery of a public record, misconduct in office, and multiple counts of using a computer to commit a crime," reports Crowe.

Her arrest came after the Oakland County Clerk’s Office noticed that the ballots had "been changed to reflect that the voters failed to include a valid signature or return date, when all of the implicated voters had in fact included both items." The original ballots were later discovered in the trash.
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Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%. - The New York Times
 
sanman said:
Also Libs: Gotta have mail-in ballots without audit trails! But don't be concerned about possible tampering - that'd just be paranoid delusion!
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Mail-in ballots without audit trails? What are you talking about? Mail-in ballots are physical pieces of paper. You can physically count them as many times as you wish.

Ballots without audit trails are electronic ballots. Those are where you need audit trails.

Jesus. :roll:
 
Common Sense 1 said:
Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroit’s precincts

VOTER FRAUD: Michigan City Clerk Charged With Altering Hundreds Of 2018 Midterm Ballots
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You provided two examples of voter fraud. Your first example was not voter fraud. While elections officials in Detroit confirmed that voting irregularities involving excess vote counts existed, that issue was about inaccurate head counts taken by poll workers rather than fraud.
Human error, not fraud. So none of the voter suppression efforts of the GOP would have mattered one whit: Detroit vote: 95 poll books late, 5 still missing

Among the discrepancies found by Wayne County were:

77 precincts +1 vote
62 precincts +2 votes
37 precincts +3 votes
20 precincts +4 votes
52 precincts +5 or more votes
81 precincts -1 vote
29 precincts -2 votes
19 precincts -3 votes
7 precincts -4 votes
8 precincts -5 or more votes

Human error, essentially random.

Your second example is factual. Her case is still being adjudicated. However, it's not a great example to justify voter suppression unless you can explain how stricter voter ID laws would prevent someone from falsifying records. That's the thing. Even in the very rare cases where there is fraud, it almost never is someone pretending to be someone else for a couple reasons. The penalties are high (five years in jail in some places), and the odds that one vote (or a handful of votes if you get all your friends) are going to actually change an election are vanishingly small. It just isn't worth the risk.
 
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Common Sense 1 said:
Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroit’s precincts

Voting machines in more than one-third of all Detroit precincts registered more votes than they should have during last month’s presidential election, according to Wayne County records prepared at the request of The Detroit News.

Detailed reports from the office of Wayne County Clerk Cathy Garrett show optical scanners at 248 of the city’s 662 precincts, or 37 percent, tabulated more ballots than the number of voters tallied by workers in the poll books. Voting irregularities in Detroit have spurred plans for an audit by Michigan Secretary of State Ruth Johnson’s office, Elections Director Chris Thomas said Monday.

Democrat Hillary Clinton overwhelmingly prevailed in Detroit and Wayne County. But Republican President-elect Donald Trump won Michigan by 10,704 votes or 47.5 percent to 47.3 percent.

Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroit’s precincts


VOTER FRAUD: Michigan City Clerk Charged With Altering Hundreds Of 2018 Midterm Ballots

VOTER FRAUD: Michigan City Clerk Charged With Altering Hundreds Of 2018 Midterm Ballots

National Review's Jack Crowe reports that a Michigan city clerk, honored with a prestigious award by the state Democratic Party just this year, has been charged with six felony counts after being accused of altering 193 ballots during the 2018 midterm elections.

Sherikia Hawkins, a registered Democrat who earns more than $100,000 on the taxpayer's dime, "was arraigned Monday in Southfield on charges including falsifying returns or records, forgery of a public record, misconduct in office, and multiple counts of using a computer to commit a crime," reports Crowe.

Her arrest came after the Oakland County Clerk’s Office noticed that the ballots had "been changed to reflect that the voters failed to include a valid signature or return date, when all of the implicated voters had in fact included both items." The original ballots were later discovered in the trash.
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I'm not exactly sure what the point is here. The OP is about Trump lying his lying ass off about voter fraud with mail on ballots. What you're showing us is very likely 1) incompetence, or 2) a problem with the insiders, the counters, in the first story for votes cast in person at the polls, although in the vast majority of cases, the count was off by 4 or less per precinct, which isn't a way to steal an election. So it's not relevant to the OP.

The bottom line is the risk of a stolen election is with insiders, the counters, or the people who control the ballot boxes, the computers that count votes, the voter lists, how many machines per 1,000 voters, which impacts the lines, and how many stand in them, how many voters are purged, right or wrong. None of the risks of a stolen election reside with VOTERS casting votes in person or by mail. That's the lie people corrupt hacks tell to justify in this case not letting people vote by mail, because the Trump people believe it will go against them in November.

Bottom line is your stories here have nothing to do with in person voting versus mail in voting.

So, once again, Trump lies his sorry lying ass off, and people rush in to defend him. It's so predictable it's depressing.
 
Deuce said:
Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%. - The New York Times
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See, that's how a party swings an election. A few keystrokes, and 47,000 voters go POOF. Let's say the predicted split is 55-45, and you've just changed the vote for or against a candidate by 4,700 votes. Let's say it's in a really partisan district, say an urban black district and it goes 80-20 for the Democrat. You're just cost the Democratic candidate 28,200 votes! Not bad for a few minutes work, sitting in a nice office in a suit and tie.

That's how the pros swing elections. It's not by getting 28,200 illegals to vote, which ain't happening, since they'd all risk a felony, deportation and jail to cast ONE vote. So the guys in suits do stuff behind the scenes. Not only is it easier, it's more effective than "voter" fraud, which is why "voter" fraud is a myth sold so we don't notice the guys in suits doing their thing.
 
ataraxia said:
advancing an agenda important to them that no one else would.
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The principles are not difficult to understand.



After reviewing them, One can see clearly why progressive democrats hate these rights so much.

They are yours and not theirs to utilize government to take away at their whim.

Anyone that would support the prevention of hard or soft tyranny is generally welcome in the USA.

It is good we can see those around here openly declaring their authoritarian support of theft by taking federal money from other states for other than their legal purpose.
 
sanman said:
Domestic voting by mail is ripe for all kinds of problems -- I'm surprised that the Collusion-fearing Left is so paradoxically unconcerned about potential for tampering.

(hint: they don't really believe their Collusion nonsense)
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You have to be a mother****ing moron to believe trump
 
jpn said:
Mail-in ballots without audit trails? What are you talking about? Mail-in ballots are physical pieces of paper. You can physically count them as many times as you wish.

Ballots without audit trails are electronic ballots. Those are where you need audit trails.

Jesus. :roll:
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No kidding. Every time I vote on our antiquated electronic machines that any somewhat competent 16 year old can hack, I consider it a suggestion more than anything. We vote, the black box spits out some numbers at the end of the day, and that's that. It's unbelievable to me this is how we vote in the U.S.
 
akyron said:
The principles are not difficult to understand.



After reviewing them, One can see clearly why progressive democrats hate these rights so much.

They are yours and not theirs to utilize government to take away at their whim.

Anyone that would support the prevention of hard or soft tyranny is generally welcome in the USA.

It is good we can see those around here openly declaring their authoritarian support of theft by taking federal money from other states for other than their legal purpose.
Click to expand...


Christ that's stupid
 
I repeat the challenge I have made in the past: how does one organize any significant voter fraud without anyone noticing? Presumably it requires staff to get paid or volunteer to do this. Where are the backlit interviews of the former organizers of this crime confessing to Sean Hannity?

We had a commission to look into this. It found nada.
 
Nickyjo said:
I repeat the challenge I have made in the past: how does one organize any significant voter fraud without anyone noticing? Presumably it requires staff to get paid or volunteer to do this. Where are the backlit interviews of the former organizers of this crime confessing to Sean Hannity?

We had a commission to look into this. It found nada.
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Remember, we're talking about a political ideology that takes to conspiracy theories like flies to ****.
 
Oborosen said:
So where is this claim?
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The claim that Trump is making false claims about Michigan is right in the FIRST SENTENCE of the article. "President Trump on Wednesday escalated his assault against mail voting, falsely claiming that Michigan and Nevada were engaged in voter fraud and had acted illegally, and threatening to withhold federal funds to those states if they proceed in expanding vote-by-mail efforts."
 
Plasmaball said:
You have to be a mother****ing moron to believe trump
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Lying Democrats are looking for any way to abuse the voting process.

If they were to get these crazy changes in place to make the election process look shakier, then that will enable them to cry "election interference" all over again.

Election rules have been fine all this time - don't try to shake things up to stack the deck in your favor.
 
sanman said:
Lying Democrats are looking for any way to abuse the voting process.

If they were to get these crazy changes in place to make the election process look shakier, then that will enable them to cry "election interference" all over again.

Election rules have been fine all this time - don't try to shake things up to stack the deck in your favor.
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They don't have a chance with Clueless Joe as their candidate but they do have a chance with Ballot stuffing and and harvesting. That's why they're all for mailing out ballots.

Ballot harvesting - Wikipedia
 
sanman said:
Lying Democrats are looking for any way to abuse the voting process.

If they were to get these crazy changes in place to make the election process look shakier, then that will enable them to cry "election interference" all over again.

Election rules have been fine all this time - don't try to shake things up to stack the deck in your favor.
Click to expand...
There'll be protests , recounts and court cases long after the election was intended to be over. They're the Party of Unintended Consequences.
 
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