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Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

UtahBill said:
and if you are out vandalizing LDS churches because the majority of the voters didn't let you have your way, what kind of bigot is that???
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A childish one.
 
UtahBill said:
and if you are out vandalizing LDS churches because the majority of the voters didn't let you have your way, what kind of bigot is that???
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It's not a bigot, it's a worthless cowardly moron.
 
rivrrat said:
Really?? Women are allowed to be in the Navy SEALS now? And on submarines?
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That is because they could not hack it as Navy Seals.....Most men can't and as far as submarines go you would not say that if you had ever been on one.......I have..........

Bottom line all ratings are available to women in the USN........
Try again.......
 
jfuh said:
Everyone that had ever stood for equal rights before, during and after the civil rights movement and voted for this proposition ought to be ashamed - those who had not voted ought be ashamed of these people.
I don't care what your race, your faith, age or sex is, if you supported this measure to revoke their rights you are a homophobic bigot.
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Its amazing how intolerant people on the left are and how they resort to the same old name calling with people that disagree with them.......
 
Navy Pride said:
That is because they could not hack it as Navy Seals.....Most men can't and as far as submarines go you would not say that if you had ever been on one.......I have..........

Bottom line all ratings are available to women in the USN........
Try again.......
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What I said was 100% accurate, I need not try again. All JOBS available to men are not available to women in the military. Thus, their choices are restricted. Restricted choices is not better.
 
I'm disappointed in people who voted yes on 8. Everybody has their reasons. I believe those against Prop 8 still have every right to protest peacefully and spread the word to change people's minds about same sex marriage. I definitely don't condone the name calling and vandalism that occurred. It's only a matter of time before that slim and slipping majority vote turns to a minority.
 
Navy Pride said:
Its amazing how intolerant people on the left are and how they resort to the same old name calling with people that disagree with them.......
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It goes both ways. Neither side should get to the point of childish name calling or cowardly threats. Intelligent discourse would be a wonderful way to go but emotions cloud the issue and bring everything down multiple levels.
 
rivrrat said:
What I said was 100% accurate, I need not try again. All JOBS available to men are not available to women in the military. Thus, their choices are restricted. Restricted choices is not better.
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All ratings or jobs are available certain billets (duty stations) are not for the reasons I mentioned......
 
giggster11 said:
It goes both ways. Neither side should get to the point of childish name calling or cowardly threats. Intelligent discourse would be a wonderful way to go but emotions cloud the issue and bring everything down multiple levels.
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I don't see our side calling anyone any names....In fact most of us are for civil unions with the same rights......Maybe you can enlighten me on the name calling my left wing friend?:confused:
 
Navy Pride said:
Its amazing how intolerant people on the left are and how they resort to the same old name calling with people that disagree with them.......
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I'm neither right nor left in many ways and I'd say that behaviour is just as common on all sides unfortunately. Many cannot partake in civil, decent and honest political debate in this world whether they are rightwing or leftwing.
 
Navy Pride said:
I don't see our side calling anyone any names....In fact most of us are for civil unions with the same rights......Maybe you can enlighten me on the name calling my left wing friend?:confused:
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I've read about/seen/experienced all sorts of things:
Gay couples having "Sodom and Gomorrah" shouted at them.
F*g lover
F*g
People throwing stuff at No on 8 cars.
People flipping me off for my No on 8 stickers.
I was participating in my local newspaper's online coverage on election night and the vitriol that was spewed by Yes on 8 people was abhorrent. It went both ways though which is what I was trying to say.

You can't tell me the Yes on 8 side was completely well behaved.
 
Navy Pride said:
Its amazing how intolerant people on the left are and how they resort to the same old name calling with people that disagree with them.......
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The supporters of yes on 8 made their idiotic bigoted homophobia quite apparent.
An irrational fear of homosexuality - that is homophobia - utterly irrational.
 
jfuh said:
Those whom voted in favor are homophobes. They think that gay marriage is going to somehow impede on their lives - how?
There is no rational assessment that gay marriage would interfere or impede on the lives of anyone else except their own - precisely what they wish to do.
The courts had already demonstrated that the whole thing was unconstitutional. And in revocation of their right, the homophobic community votes against gays.
In particular that the black community voted in favor of this measure adds to the utter irony. It's almost as if, yeah we were treated unfairly and it was wrong, but it's fine to treat you with bigoted inequality of separate but equal - hypocrites.
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"Homophobe" is a junk insult word that is grossly and inaccurately used. However, I suppose moderators also allow calling other members here "homophobes", while calling a member a "sexist" is violating the rules. Overall, that grotesque variation is only an example of my objections to "gay rights."

My view is rather simple to understand.

Women have had the right to vote, right to own property and right to equal pay (legally but not actually in some states) for over 5 decades less than black men. Women are paid less then men. Men dominate every aspect of governmental and economic institutions.

Women have been 100% excluded from the executive branch of government for 200+ years and as we again saw in this election if a woman does run the male dominated media and political leadership (this time the Democratic male leadership) engage in rabid sexist smears and personal attacks.

Gay men are less than 1% of the male adult population. Women are 50+% percent. Gay men have never been denied the right to vote, never denied the right to own property and have incomes higher than the national average.

Yet the media fixates, rages endless, for gay rights and it is the new "political correct agenda" of the left wing - the same left wing that smeared Hillary and absurdly and bitterly smeared and still smears Sarah.

I'm not gay. While there are lesbian women, constitutional, representative and economic equality for all women including lesbian women is far greater an cause than constitutional protection of selective sexuality preference. Who most sneers and spouts the most foul insults of women's equality issues are so-called liberals and Democrats - who at the same time whine for "gay rights."

It a sense it would be as if the gay rights movement declared they are not for equality for all gays, only blue eyed, blonde gays. Selective, trendy equality for a tiny niche group while ongoingly denying constitutional, institutional and social equality to over half our citizens is bizarre and sickening to me.

I find this all intensely offensive, grossly out of balance and outright exactly wrong priorities.

Why would I support some small fringe movement for equality on a narrow range issue of sexuality when overall general equality is denied over half the US population - of which I am one of?

My response to the gay rights movement is simple: "NO! You can't cut in front of women's equality - go stand at the end of the line behind 160,000,000 women!"
 
Bonnie1988 said:
My response to the gay rights movement is simple: "NO! You can't cut in front of women's equality - go stand at the end of the line behind 160,000,000 women!"[/B][/COLOR]
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LOL gay men are not the only ones trying to get married so are lesbians, you know the WOMEN you so call care about?

Bonnie, get over your feminist nazi syndrome please. It gets tiring to hear you cry sexism in almost every thread you post in.
 
giggster11 said:
I've read about/seen/experienced all sorts of things:
Gay couples having "Sodom and Gomorrah" shouted at them.
F*g lover
F*g
People throwing stuff at No on 8 cars.
People flipping me off for my No on 8 stickers.
I was participating in my local newspaper's online coverage on election night and the vitriol that was spewed by Yes on 8 people was abhorrent. It went both ways though which is what I was trying to say.

You can't tell me the Yes on 8 side was completely well behaved.
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We are talking about in this forum in this thread......

I am no homophone or bigot as are not the people that have a difference of opinion with you.......
 
Bonnie1988 said:
"Homophobe" is a junk insult word that is grossly and inaccurately used. However, I suppose moderators also allow calling other members here "homophobes", while calling a member a "sexist" is violating the rules. Overall, that grotesque variation is only an example of my objections to "gay rights."

My view is rather simple to understand.

Women have had the right to vote, right to own property and right to equal pay (legally but not actually in some states) for over 5 decades less than black men. Women are paid less then men. Men dominate every aspect of governmental and economic institutions.

Women have been 100% excluded from the executive branch of government for 200+ years and as we again saw in this election if a woman does run the male dominated media and political leadership (this time the Democratic male leadership) engage in rabid sexist smears and personal attacks.

Gay men are less than 1% of the male adult population. Women are 50+% percent. Gay men have never been denied the right to vote, never denied the right to own property and have incomes higher than the national average.

Yet the media fixates, rages endless, for gay rights and it is the new "political correct agenda" of the left wing - the same left wing that smeared Hillary and absurdly and bitterly smeared and still smears Sarah.

I'm not gay. While there are lesbian women, constitutional, representative and economic equality for all women including lesbian women is far greater an cause than constitutional protection of selective sexuality preference. Who most sneers and spouts the most foul insults of women's equality issues are so-called liberals and Democrats - who at the same time whine for "gay rights."

It a sense it would be as if the gay rights movement declared they are not for equality for all gays, only blue eyed, blonde gays. Selective, trendy equality for a tiny niche group while ongoingly denying constitutional, institutional and social equality to over half our citizens is bizarre and sickening to me.

I find this all intensely offensive, grossly out of balance and outright exactly wrong priorities.

Why would I support some small fringe movement for equality on a narrow range issue of sexuality when overall general equality is denied over half the US population - of which I am one of?

My response to the gay rights movement is simple: "NO! You can't cut in front of women's equality - go stand at the end of the line behind 160,000,000 women!"
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There are such homosexuals called lesbians.
 
Navy Pride said:
We are talking about in this forum in this thread......

I am no homophone or bigot as are not the people that have a difference of opinion with you.......
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That's fine. It wasn't made clear to me. Don't imply that I am calling you a homophobe or bigot because I've done neither.
 
TheNextEra said:
LOL gay men are not the only ones trying to get married so are lesbians, you know the WOMEN you so call care about?

Bonnie, get over your feminist nazi syndrome please. It gets tiring to hear you cry sexism in almost every thread you post in.
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There, you again made my point. I cite facts:
There is no constitutional protection against gender discrimination.
There is gender discrimination in all salary studies.
There is gender discrimination in looking at every branch of government.
For over 200 years there has been no women in the executive branch of government.
The media is dominated by men and always has been.
Corporate management is dominated by men.
Of those Obama has so far suggested for cabinet positions, they are overwhelmingly men.
Women are 50+% of the population.

Any of those you claim are false? Any you care to try to justify?

But you, identifying yourself as a "liberal," call me a "feminist nazi" because I see this as a vastly greater civil rights issue than "gay marriage."

This, again, is why it is clear that if there is ever going to be a female President, she will have to be a Republican. To liberals, even liberal women, women's equality is limited to "women's issues such as abortion." Although women are the majority of the population, YOU defined women as a fringe group politically restricted to one side of a small set of social issues. How SMALL you want to reduce women to. I TOTALLY disagree.

STILL, NOT ONE PERSON HAS DEFINED "MEN'S ISSUES," while liberals and Democrats quickly spout off the limited "women's issues" and then go on to dictate what side of those few issues a woman must take.

The restrictions on women are yours, not mine, making you having the "feminist nazi syndrome."

What I write is the reason I do not support gay rights. I support women's rights first.
 
Navy Pride said:
We are talking about in this forum in this thread......

I am no homophone or bigot as are not the people that have a difference of opinion with you.......
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You most certainly are not a homophone, as for homophobe.
Great, give but one rational reason against gay marriage.
 
jfuh said:
You most certainly are not a homophone, as for homophobe.
Great, give but one rational reason against gay marriage.
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Your not a rookie here.......I have explained my reasons a dozen times and you know it and they have nothing to do with homophobia.........
 
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Navy Pride said:
Your not a rookie here.......I have explained my reasons a dozen times and you know it and they have nothing to do with homophobia.........
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Nor are you a rookie, you know as well as anyone on this site, if you're going to make a point, you'd better be ready to support it.
Everything you've written "about a dozen times" is exactly under the lines of homophobia, so don't be surprised if you are called a homophobe.
I'm more than open if you can rationalize your support of inequality towards gays. So again, without the rhetoric, please rationalize your argument against gay marriage.
 
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jfuh said:
Nor are you NP, you know as well as anyone on this site, if you're going to make a point, you'd better be ready to support it.
So support it, I asked you a very simple question, please rationalize your argument against gay marriage.
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If a person believes gay sex is immoral or socially wrong that alone is rationalization. Personally, I don't see how a person can argue for gay marriage while supporting criminalization of polygamy between consenting adults.

I've read theologians pointing out that only sex between men is prohibited in the Bible, there is no prohibition against lesbians. In the past I've read sociological materials suggesting that violence and criminality is higher than social averages for homosexual men, but that lesbian women have much lower levels of violence and criminality that social averages.

I suppose if we can have gender discrimination against women in wages and representation in favor of men, why can't I support gender discrimination again men but be favor of equality for lesbians? There are far more lesbians than homosexual men. Estimates run as high as 10 times more.

I've also read that gay marriages (marriage commitment made between them) rarely last long for which legalizing gay marriages really just might mean gobs of gay divorces and questions the fundamental legitimacy of "gay marriage" as opposed to "two gays cohabitation exclusively for a little while."

The age line at which sex is illegal or permissible also is arbitrary and based upon moral or social sexual regulation judgments.

THERE ARE NOW 55 PAGES ON THE TOPIC OF GAY RIGHTS JUST ON THIS THREAD, BUT EXACTLY ONE PERSON ON THIS BOARD INTERESTED IN EQUALITY FOR WOMEN.
 
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jfuh said:
Nor are you a rookie, you know as well as anyone on this site, if you're going to make a point, you'd better be ready to support it.
Everything you've written "about a dozen times" is exactly under the lines of homophobia, so don't be surprised if you are called a homophobe.
I'm more than open if you can rationalize your support of inequality towards gays. So again, without the rhetoric, please rationalize your argument against gay marriage.
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I am not going to play your silly childish game.......You know my reasons.........If you were new here I might explain why I am against gay marriage for the umpteenth time but you have been here almost as long as I have so the point it moot........
 
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Bonnie1988 said:
If a person believes gay sex is immoral or socially wrong that alone is rationalization. Personally, I don't see how a person can argue for gay marriage while supporting criminalization of polygamy between consenting adults.
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OMG, I agree.

Bonnie1988 said:
I've read theologians pointing out that only sex between men is prohibited in the Bible, there is no prohibition against lesbians.
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Yay! :applaud

I mean, ya know, yay for lesbians... :3oops:

Bonnie1988 said:
THERE ARE NOW 55 PAGES ON THE TOPIC OF GAY RIGHTS JUST ON THIS THREAD, BUT EXACTLY ONE PERSON ON THIS BOARD INTERESTED IN EQUALITY FOR WOMEN.
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Actually, I think there are more than you think, it's just not the topic at hand. Though I think all of us sort of get that it is your topic no matter what anyone else wants to talk about. I do agree with you on a number of things, but I also agree with PETA on a number of things, but both of you would get more people to listen if you softened your tone. As it is you're probably actually doing women more harm than good.
 
Bonnie1988 said:

If a person believes gay sex is immoral or socially wrong that alone is rationalization.
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I believe video games are immoral, is that a rational reason to ban video games? (I don't really believe that I was just making a rhetorical point)

Well this begs a very obvious question: Why is homosexuality immoral?

Also, does this rule apply to anything? If the majority believe espousing nazism is immoral should they be able sensor peoples right to assembly? (do I get bonus points for the irony?) If people believe rock music is immoral they should be able to ban rock music?

I thought the conservative right supported small government and liberty?

Personally, I don't see how a person can argue for gay marriage while supporting criminalization of polygamy between consenting adults.
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I don't so, next question.

I've read theologians pointing out that only sex between men is prohibited in the Bible, there is no prohibition against lesbians.
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Point being?

In the past I've read sociological materials suggesting that violence and criminality is higher than social averages for homosexual men, but that lesbian women have much lower levels of violence and criminality that social averages.
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Also higher in blacks than average, what's your point? Also, don't you think there could be a cultural confound explaining why that is?

I suppose if we can have gender discrimination against women in wages and representation in favor of men, why can't I support gender discrimination again men but be favor of equality for lesbians?
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Because discrimination against men would not be the gender equality you so passionately support.

I've also read that gay marriages (marriage commitment made between them) rarely last long for which legalizing gay marriages really just might mean gobs of gay divorces and questions the fundamental legitimacy of "gay marriage" as opposed to "two gays cohabitation exclusively for a little while."
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Are you joking me have you seen heterosexual marriage? Illigitamte gay marriages may last less time because they don't have as much paper work to file but I don't see how that can justify descrimination anyway.

The age line at which sex is illegal or permissible also is arbitrary and based upon moral or social sexual regulation judgments.
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Because age is a quantity and it is difficult to determine on a line when a person is responsible enough to be able to consent which is why it has to be arbitrary. Gender is not similar to age laws in this regard.

THERE ARE NOW 55 PAGES ON THE TOPIC OF GAY RIGHTS JUST ON THIS THREAD, BUT EXACTLY ONE PERSON ON THIS BOARD INTERESTED IN EQUALITY FOR WOMEN.
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Make a thread about womens rights and discuss them there, this is not a womens' rights thread, it's a gay marriage thread, so don't be so friggin suprised at how many pages of gay marriage discussion is located here.
 
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