Ban on gay marriage in CA still unclear

Truth Detector said:

The hatred we are seeing is coming from the dramatic hysterics of Liberals like you. You hate anyone who doesn't conform to your absurd views and demagogue and spew your venom empty of any logic, tolerance or coherent thoughts.

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I could flip this around on you if I took out liberal and added right wing or religious bias it would be the same, unlike you I don't want to discriminate or hate some because of the way there where born or the type of political view they have. I feel sorry for people who are so full of hate that they willing support views that belittle other people who don't conform to their views and religion!

Truth Detector said:

The hatred we are seeing is coming from the dramatic hysterics of Liberals like you. You hate anyone who doesn't conform to your absurd views and demagogue and spew your venom empty of any logic, tolerance or coherent thoughts.

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Yes. Like Disneydude, they cannot conceive of any reason for opposing gay marriage -- indeed, any discrimination at all - other than hate and fear.

Of course, they cannot actually SHOW that people discriminate in general and oppose gay marriage in specific out of hate and fear, but...

Truth Detector said:

Your narcissism aside, for many, homosexuality is not an accepted lifestyle. The schools will teach it as being "normal" against the wishes of parents, which it isn't, and law suits will arise for people who feel it goes against their religious beliefs and refuse to marry same sex couples.

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Why would it not be an accepted lifestyle? It's not like they are being forced to engage in it. It's really none of their business what other consenting adults wish to do. There are plenty of people who feel it goes against their religious beliefs and that's fine. If gay marriage were made legal, then no church should be forced to perform a gay marriage. People fail to realize, however, that their religion isn't the only one and that the opinions of other religions are just as valid as theirs. Not every religion is anti-gay.

I would ask the same question of the gay community; what is harming them by keeping marriage between a man and a woman as it has been for 2000 years?

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They are being discriminated against. There is no logical reason to deny them the same rights just because they have a different sexual orientation.

This isn't about equality; this is about a tiny minority forcing their views on the majority to re-define what marriage means after 2000 years. How is life created; a test tube? No, it is the union of a man and a woman. Why is that so impossible to accept? What is FAIR about forcing a vast majority of people to re-define something that is sacred to them?

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A tiny minority? Did you see the polling numbers for Prop 8? It was very close. There are a significant amount of people who have no problem with gay marriage. Why would allowing gay marriage force people to re-define anything? It has absolutely no affect on their marriages.

I am sure you believe in the theories that if it feels good, just do it. I have yet to see and undisciplined and immoral societies achieve any greatness. Now if you are for breaking our society down to the lowest common denominator, don't expect me, or others who support your minority views.

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It has nothing to do with it "feeling good". Some people are attracted to people of the same sex. It's a fact of life. Just as sure as you are of being attracted to the opposite sex, they are sure of being attracted to the same sex. If a lot of people disagreed with you being attracted to the opposite sex would you just give in to their views just because they feel it's wrong?

A much better solution is taking the “concept” of marriage and marriage certificates OUT of the Government and replacing it with a legal certificate of union; a contract between two individuals. Leave marriage for the churches. Much like Europe, marriage is a specifically religious process. You get a “license” from the State.

Makes BOTH sides happier and no longer requires the “State” to issue “marriage” certificates.

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The problem is that Christians and churches didn't invent marriage. There are churches who would have no problems with performing a gay marriage. Should their views be dismissed just because some churches don't agree with it?

Goobieman said:

Yes. Like Disneydude, they cannot conceive of any reason for opposing gay marriage -- indeed, any discrimination at all - other than hate and fear.

Of course, they cannot actually SHOW that people discriminate in general and oppose gay marriage in specific out of hate and fear, but...

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How is denying marriage to people just because of their sexual orientation not discrimination?

Truth Detector said:

Your dramatic hysterical arguments aside; equating the defining of marriage as being in the same category as the beating and murders conducted by Nazi's against gays just illustrates the absurdity of your arguments.

Spare us more of your nonsense; you embarrass yourself with every post.

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You embarrass yourself with your petty name calling. What lead to the murder and beatings of gays? The same intolerance that people like you are fostering by saying gays are not normal and don't deserve equal treatment under the law.

The nazi's where the extreme of right wing hate carried out, there are plenty of people with the extreme view that gays should be "cured" or worse yet murdered in this country, and by banning gay marriage and teaching of inculision it is emboldening these horrible views.

dclxvinoise said:

How is denying marriage to people just because of their sexual orientation not discrimination?

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I don't recall claiming that it was or wasn't.

Goobieman said:

Californoa's Blacks, Lationos and Asians -- the people that carried this vote -- are right-wing?

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In this matter they are conservative, which is right-wing.

Goobieman said:

I don't recall claiming that it was or wasn't.

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I wasn't implying anything. I was just asking you. You said this:

Yes. Like Disneydude, they cannot conceive of any reason for opposing gay marriage -- indeed, any discrimination at all - other than hate and fear.
Of course, they cannot actually SHOW that people discriminate in general and oppose gay marriage in specific out of hate and fear, but...

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And I'm asking you, in response to that, how denying marriage to people just because of their sexual orientation is not discrimination?

dclxvinoise said:

And I'm asking you, in response to that, how denying marriage to people just because of their sexual orientation is not discrimination?

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I was speaking to the claim that people are motivated to discriminate -- in general, as well as the specific case of same-sex marriage -- out of hate and fear.

I was also speaking to the inability of certain people to conceive of any other reason for why people might discriminate, and the inability of those that hold the view that discrimination is based on fear and hate to actually support that point of view.

Given that I specify the opposition to gay marriage as a subset of discrimination...

Gibberish said:

In this matter they are conservative, which is right-wing.

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Hmm. I can see it now, the sign above their gathering place:


And to think that when I call the Obamastinians, I -was- joking.
I guess now I'm really not.

Goobieman said:

I was speaking to the claim that people are motivated to discriminate -- in general, as well as the specific case of same-sex marriage -- out of hate and fear.

I was also speaking to the inability of certain people to conceive of any other reason for why people might discriminate, and the inability of those that hold the view that discrimination is based on fear and hate to actually support that point of view.

Given that I specify the opposition to gay marriage as a subset of discrimination...

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Thanks for clarifying.

Gibberish said:

In this matter they are conservative, which is right-wing.

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I have to disagree here. They are conservative. But they are not conservative in the same sense as the republican base. They share the same traditional values. But they certainly are not right wing. Because they do not seek the establishment of the status-quo, they are minorities.

It's a critical difference, and one that is difficult for them to make because it is contradictory for them. Keeping their traditional (native) values are detrimental to their progress in the future as immigrants. They do not fit neatly in right-wing politics, nor do they in left-wing politics. It's quagmire...

UtahBill said:

Did I say that?
No, but if you must flame, do it inside. It is called public decency, or PDA as you say. Gays and straights should be arrested once the private parts become publicly displayed.

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Don't take offense....I think we are in agreement here for the most part. I agree that PDA's and sex in public are inappropriate for any group. However, there is much more to a gay pride parade and the lives of gay people in general than those things.

America should stand for liberty and justice for all, not just for some. Gay people should not have to keep their private lives behind closed doors and people should be able to marry the person that they love.

Goobieman said:

Yes. Like Disneydude, they cannot conceive of any reason for opposing gay marriage -- indeed, any discrimination at all - other than hate and fear.

Of course, they cannot actually SHOW that people discriminate in general and oppose gay marriage in specific out of hate and fear, but...

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I'll ask it another way (and I still won't expect an answer from you)...

What reasons other than hatred and fear has discrimination ever been based on in the history of our Country?

Goobieman said:

was also speaking to the inability of certain people to conceive of any other reason for why people might discriminate

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:2funny:

So what exactly is the opposition to gay marriage?

Is it simply using the term "marriage" or actually affording homosexual couples the same 1,049 rights afforded to heterosexual couples?

disneydude said:

What reasons other than hatred and fear has discrimination ever been based on in the history of our Country?

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We both know that if you could support your claim, you'd not contine to ask me to disprove it.
So, continue to keep admitting you cvannot support your claim -- I certainly wont stop you.

Goobieman said:

We both know that if you could support your claim, you'd not contine to ask me to disprove it.
So, continue to keep admitting you cvannot support your claim -- I certainly wont stop you.

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This is the exact same type of argument that Stinger used to raise until he ran away....or rather shuffled away.

The reality is, see the post above, you criticize people for doing the exact same thing that you are doing right now.

Why can't you answer the question?

disneydude said:

This is the exact same type of argument that Stinger used...

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He expected you to support your claims, and laughed at you when you said 'Oh yeah? Well disprove me then!!!"

Good for him!

You cannot support your claim and you know it.

Goobieman said:

He expected you to support your claims, and laughed at you when you said 'Oh yeah? Well disprove me then!!!"

Good for him!

You cannot support your claim and you know it.

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Still avoiding the question I see:doh


:2wave:

disneydude said:

Still avoiding the question I see:

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Your claim -- its up to you to back it up.

And so, your admission that you cannot is noted.

disneydude said:

I am ashamed of my state for one simple reason:
Given the choice between love/inclusion and hate/discrimination on the ballot, a slight majority chose hate.

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Can you show that people that do not approve of same-sex marriages do so out of hate?

Goobieman said:

Can you show that people that do not approve of same-sex marriages do so out of hate?

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You'll have to wait for disseydude gets his talking-point answers for that question. :mrgreen:

Most on the left and right have a hard time doing anything but spewing diatribes. My own feelings are that I hope people will find a way to meet in the middle. There is no reason that we can't somehow afford homosexuals the same rights as those in hetero marriages and not call it marriage.

American said:

You'll have to wait for disseydude gets his talking-point answers for that question. :mrgreen:

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You know, I -do- have to wonder...

Why is it that if you disagree with a liberal, it -must- be because you hate and that you're acting out of fear?

veganshawn said:

I could flip this around on you if I took out liberal and added right wing or religious bias it would be the same, unlike you I don't want to discriminate or hate some because of the way there where born or the type of political view they have. I feel sorry for people who are so full of hate that they willing support views that belittle other people who don't conform to their views and religion!

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I don't discriminate or hate; that is your forte'. I take offense with your desperate attempts to suggest that I do.

There is nothing hateful or indiscriminate about merely questioning the reasons same sex couples so desperately want to redefine a term that has been with us for over 2000 years and FALSLEY claim it as a RIGHT.

The purpose of marriage between a man and a woman is to provide a contract that binds them in a solemn promise before God for life to procreate and create and raise children as a FAMILY. Gays cannot procreate, it is a LIFE style. Only a MAN and a WOMAN can.

Your desperate hysterical drama has been noted however.

I expect the gay activists and disrespectful Liberal activists to carry on with their hysterics and law breaking behavior. After all, the ONLY laws they follow are the laws THEY agree with. Thank God the majority of us don't all act out in such an immature, irrational and narcissistic way.