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Raped 13 year old girl stoned to death.

Regardless of what so many people will tell you, there is nothing wrong with this. It is natural and right for any person to put their own tribe above other tribes-- just as within the tribe, a person should put their own family above other families.

It is the natural order of things, and our obligation as members of a tribe.

Looking out for one's on tribe is one thing. For it to result in violence, especially as it has been manifested in Somalia and DR Congo/Rwanda is another entirely.
 
Sounds similar to the diversity within the Christian community. Imagine that!

:rofl
Well, you may just be surprised at how many people assume we all believe one thing because we are from one religion :p
 
Then you need to study history just a little bit more carefully.

There is almost as much blood on catholic hands as is there is on Muslim hands.

What connection are you naming between how modern Catholics and the Church regards Protestants with history?
 
:rofl
Well, you may just be surprised at how many people assume we all believe one thing because we are from one religion :p

Most Americans have only seen a characature of Islam through the worst elements of the faith. There are more militant radicals in Islam than in Christianity, but to assume that all one billion or so Muslims in the world are radicals is an unsustainable reach. I have had a lot of interaction with Muslims in my career - most of which has been extraordinarly positive. I have found most Muslims to be kind, generous, God fearing people. The militants spoil it for everyone else.
 
Most Americans have only seen a characature of Islam through the worst elements of the faith. There are more militant radicals in Islam than in Christianity, but to assume that all one billion or so Muslims in the world are radicals is an unsustainable reach. I have had a lot of interaction with Muslims in my career - most of which has been extraordinarly positive. I have found most Muslims to be kind, generous, God fearing people. The militants spoil it for everyone else.

Thats wonderful, i'd love to have the opportunity one day to travel the Muslim countries - where have you travelled so far? =]

Sadly yes, the radicals seem to have both the spotlight and stage and it tends to be mainstream moderates that take the backlash for what is done by the minority.
 
Thats wonderful, i'd love to have the opportunity one day to travel the Muslim countries - where have you travelled so far? =]

Sadly yes, the radicals seem to have both the spotlight and stage and it tends to be mainstream moderates that take the backlash for what is done by the minority.

The only Islamic countries I have actually visited are Indonesia (which language I speak reasonably well) and Malaysia (also with a similar language). In my work in both the US and now in Taiwan, I have worked with Muslims from the Philippines, India, Pakistan, Kuwait, Iran, UAE, Somalia (I think the former Italian part), Sudan, Western Sahara, and Algeria.
 
The only Islamic countries I have actually visited are Indonesia (which language I speak reasonably well) and Malaysia (also with a similar language). In my work in both the US and now in Taiwan, I have worked with Muslims from the Philippines, India, Pakistan, Kuwait, Iran, UAE, Somalia (I think the former Italian part), Sudan, Western Sahara, and Algeria.

Wow, you have a great deal more experience than me regarding this then. I have not yet interacted with such a diverse range of Muslims
 
Looking out for one's on tribe is one thing. For it to result in violence, especially as it has been manifested in Somalia and DR Congo/Rwanda is another entirely.

Two tribes can't own the same land, and if you force them to share they're going to build up a whole Hell of a lot of resentment. As soon as there's no authority to force them to play nice, there's going to be bloodshed.

Best thing to do is to stop trying to be "humanitarian" and let them bleed it out until there's enough room for both of them-- or until there's only one tribe to worry about. Don't see that there's much reason for us to prefer one over the other, anyway.
 
I'll freely admit I've developed a sort of disgust for Islam and Muslims in general. I don't really like religions in general, any of them. I don't think it's so bad that I can't treat Muslims with respect. But it's certainly gotten to the point where I'm less sympathetic towards Islamic dogma and Muslim rhetoric in general. I'd never want to live in a Muslim dominated country. As far as I'm concerned it's up to them to stop treating women like **** and until they do I'll hold them in contempt. I do realize there are moderate Muslims in the world but unless they can wrestle the reputation of their religion back from the nutty misogynists it's unlikely I'll hold them in high regard. As far as I'm concerned Islam needs to grow up and apologizing for it's many many tantrums is counterproductive.
 
Why out of the question?
 
O'rly? :roll:


Unfortunately... yes.

And they continue to brainwash little children and murder teenage girls for ALLEGED violations of Islam-o-nazi law.
 
I'll freely admit I've developed a sort of disgust for Islam and Muslims in general. I don't really like religions in general, any of them.

And that is your choice, i don't see why it would have any impact whatsoever on Muslims or Islam at all.

I don't think it's so bad that I can't treat Muslims with respect. But it's certainly gotten to the point where I'm less sympathetic towards Islamic dogma and Muslim rhetoric in general.

Don't worry, keep on going and very soon you'll hit that stage. I can't even give Muslims more sympathy. I showed more for Obamas grandmother than this 13 year old girl.

I'd never want to live in a Muslim dominated country. As far as I'm concerned it's up to them to stop treating women like **** and until they do I'll hold them in contempt.

Yes well, not all Muslims countries treat their females like **** hence why i can't wait to move from UK to a Muslim country.

I do realize there are moderate Muslims in the world but unless they can wrestle the reputation of their religion back from the nutty misogynists it's unlikely I'll hold them in high regard. As far as I'm concerned Islam needs to grow up and apologizing for it's many many tantrums is counterproductive.

People always say 'moderates need to relcaim their religion' yet never seem to state how we are supposed to do that.
How am Moderates like me, who are currentley attempting to get by in UK - Meant to take down extremism? I can't so why even waste my damn time? There is no point except to make Non Muslims feel more happier we are 'doing something'
And who is going to speak on behalf on Islam on this world? LOL
No one has the authority to make an apology on behalf of Islam.
So i can safely say, you'll be waiting for a bloody long time for that apology :rofl
 
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No, but it makes very little sense to be revulsed by something that happened a very long way away, that you can neither prevent nor avenge. Put me in town square with an angry mob and a young girl, and I can only hope that my answer would be different.

I never even heard of this girl before she was cold and in the ground. That makes it very difficult to care.


I know I'm coming in this conversation late, but I have to say that apathy toward these actions even in a far off land is as bad as condoning them. If I had been in that square when this happened I simply would not be alive today. A futile gesture most likely , but they would have had to go through me first to get at her.

I never heard of this girl before she was cold and in the ground. This makes it no less difficult to care and grieve for her.
 
I sort of agree with Korimyr. In principle I know I shouldn't, but every day I open a news paper or read online about something heinous that happened somewhere in the world. It seems like that's all that the media reports on, and they report on it to illicit an emotional reaction from the audience. That's how they make their money and get their ratings. The same goes for television news.

The media posts stories like this for shock value, it's not really educating us about the region or telling us why things are the way they are. It's to get an empty reaction. But you know what, every day I see so many stories, both from my own country and abroad, about how something cruel happened, and I just don't have the energy to invest care in every little thing that happens. I only have control over my own life, and maybe my more immediate surroundings. Every day on my way home from school I see the same woman holding her child while sitting on the sidewalk; she is a filthy mess, her feet bitten up by bugs, and she looks completely woeful. There are other homeless people around but I can't help them all, so I choose to help her. I buy her something to eat. For me, the cost is literally less than 50 cents Canadian. I ask her how she's doing, if she and her kid have had enough to eat today. If I were not in China, I wouldn't know of her existence, and therefore I would not care.

There is plenty of injustice in my own area. I could do something to help that, and maybe, by proxy, help the entire world somehow. But sitting here and judging a story about something that happened thousands of kilometres away in an area where I have no power to help, is not conducive to any kind of improvement. Call me a pragmatist.

You care because the article tells you to care. How many other injustices in the world are you not aware of right now? If you could be apprised of even 2% of the crap going on in the world, you would forget the moral argument against apathy; you would simply be overwhelmed and not have the mental capacity to care.
 
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Wow. Bigoted ignorance from the left. Why am I not surprised?

The Roman Catholic Church is responsible for more charity than any organization in the history of mankind.
The Roman Catholic Church is responsible for more death than any organization in the history of mankind, as well.

Now, show me where my response was bigoted and ignorant. Is any of what I said untrue?
 
I sort of agree with Korimyr. In principle I know I shouldn't, but every day I open a news paper or read online about something heinous that happened somewhere in the world. It seems like that's all that the media reports on, and they report on it to illicit an emotional reaction from the audience. That's how they make their money and get their ratings. The same goes for television news.

The media posts stories like this for shock value, it's not really educating us about the region or telling us why things are the way they are. It's to get an empty reaction. But you know what, every day I see so many stories, both from my own country and abroad, about how something cruel happened, and I just don't have the energy to invest care in every little thing that happens. I only have control over my own life, and maybe my more immediate surroundings. Every day on my way home from school I see the same woman holding her child while sitting on the sidewalk; she is a filthy mess, her feet bitten up by bugs, and she looks completely woeful. There are other homeless people around but I can't help them all, so I choose to help her. I buy her something to eat. For me, the cost is literally less than 50 cents Canadian. I ask her how she's doing, if she and her kid have had enough to eat today. If I were not in China, I wouldn't know of her existence, and therefore I would not care.

There is plenty of injustice in my own area. I could do something to help that, and maybe, by proxy, help the entire world somehow. But sitting here and judging a story about something that happened thousands of kilometres away in an area where I have no power to help, is not conducive to any kind of improvement. Call me a pragmatist.

You care because the article tells you to care. How many other injustices in the world are you not aware of right now? If you could be apprised of even 2% of the crap going on in the world, you would forget the moral argument against apathy; you would simply be overwhelmed and not have the mental capacity to care.
In fairness to the media, they don't just focus on negative circumstances or events, they focus on things that are out of the ordinary. A car wreck might seem rather ordinary but considering how many vehicles don't get into a wreck everyday, a wreck becomes something out of the ordinary. Same with a liquor store robbery, how many people go to the liquor store and don't rob it... There is also the fact that tragedy and out the ordinary things interest humans more than the mundane. So if you have 2 news papers with one reporting on the flowers that grew today and the cool summer breeze and 200 million people made it to work and back safely, you'd probably buy the one that had a big wreck or a blown up building on the front page.
 
In the end I have to kind of agree with the Rat, I feel sorry for the girl but her death does not effect me beyond emotion.
Our ridiculous drug policy however, does effect me, therefore it's much more important to me than this girls death.
 
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I sort of agree with Korimyr. In principle I know I shouldn't...

What principle? The notion that we are all taught as children, that every human life is equally important?

Worst kind of nonsense.

I only have control over my own life, and maybe my more immediate surroundings. Every day on my way home from school I see the same woman... ... ...I can't help them all, so I choose to help her.

If I were not in China, I wouldn't know of her existence, and therefore I would not care.

But because you are there, and your compassion compels you to act, one woman's life is improved. Your compassion for this woman is meaningful, and it forms the basis of a social relationship to provide context for your actions.

There is plenty of injustice in my own area. I could do something to help that, and maybe, by proxy, help the entire world somehow.

Why do you worry about the entire world? Isn't doing something about the injustice, or the suffering, or the disorder in your immediate surroundings meaningful enough? You have improved the world you live in; keep doing that and take pride in it, and if you should later find yourself living in a larger world, you will be better prepared to make improvements to it then.
 
The Roman Catholic Church is responsible for more death than any organization in the history of mankind, as well.

Now, show me where my response was bigoted and ignorant. Is any of what I said untrue?

You are making the claim that the Catholic Church is responsible for more death than any organization in the history of mankind. PROVE IT!
 
I know I'm coming in this conversation late, but I have to say that apathy toward these actions even in a far off land is as bad as condoning them.

And grieving over these actions is better somehow?
 
You are making the claim that the Catholic Church is responsible for more death than any organization in the history of mankind. PROVE IT!

The Dark Ages were caused by the RCCs stand against scientific advancement. How many died because medicine didn't advance? How many died from starvation because of the feudal system? How many pagans were killed in the process of conversion?

Nine Crusades

How many people have been killed by Christians since Biblical times? - ExChristian.Net - Articles
 
The Dark Ages were caused by the RCCs stand against scientific advancement. How many died because medicine didn't advance? How many died from starvation because of the feudal system? How many pagans were killed in the process of conversion?

Nine Crusades

How many people have been killed by Christians since Biblical times? - ExChristian.Net - Articles

The Catholic Church DRAGGED EUROPE OUT of the Dark Ages. The Church preserved knowledge, preserved literacy in dangerous times (actually improving on the writing system at the time), was PRO-SCIENCE, and PRO-EDUCATION.

Get your head out of your bigoted biases and actually look at the accomplishments of the Church.
 
The Catholic Church DRAGGED EUROPE OUT of the Dark Ages. The Church preserved knowledge, preserved literacy in dangerous times (actually improving on the writing system at the time), was PRO-SCIENCE, and PRO-EDUCATION.

Get your head out of your bigoted biases and actually look at the accomplishments of the Church.

Sorry but you are simply wrong. The RCC preserved the knowledge it wanted and destroyed heretical knowledge. Literacy went DOWN in the dark ages to the point where only the clergy and the royalty were educated. Obviously you can't be pro-education if you are only allowing the clergy and the royalty to be educated. Pro-science? are you serious?
A major work published in 1632 resulted in Galileo's conviction on suspicion of heresy and a lifetime house arrest. The Galileo affair provides important lessons and applications to the Church and to science today.
GALILEO - What were Galileo's scientific and biblical conflicts with the Church? - ChristianAnswers.Net

I think you need to research a little because you are confusing periods of history. This might help a little.
Dark Ages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Renaissance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Age of Enlightenment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Get your head out of your bigoted biases and actually look at the stifling, stagnation and retrogression of the Church.
 
You are making the claim that the Catholic Church is responsible for more death than any organization in the history of mankind. PROVE IT!

Ok... Alter Boy Ludahai ....

Perhaps you failed history. Perhaps you've never heard of the crusades, the witch trials, the english conquest of Ireland and/or Scotland.

These events were all perpartrated at the behest of the catholic church.

Pope Pius II tried to have Elizabeth I murdered because she was protastant.

Go get a history book.
 
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