• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump uses Defense Production Act to require GM to make ventilators

As mentioned above, pretty funny seeing a Republican government seizing the means of production. That’s actually what socialism is guys. Not minor stuff like making sure people can go to the doctor.
 
Decypher said:
As mentioned above, pretty funny seeing a Republican government seizing the means of production. That’s actually what socialism is guys. Not minor stuff like making sure people can go to the doctor.
Click to expand...

No.... it's not socialism.
 
Decypher said:
Show your work Frederich.
Click to expand...

I thought that a very smart person such as yourself would already know this?

Socialism:

In a socialist economy, the means of production and distribution are owned, controlled and regulated by the public, either through the state or through cooperatives. The basic motive is not to use the means of production for profit, but rather for the interest of social welfare.


The companies producing the materials in the USA to fight the Covid-19 virus still maintain the right to control production and negotiate the costs of the product with the government.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I thought that a very smart person such as yourself would already know this?

Socialism:

In a socialist economy, the means of production and distribution are owned, controlled and regulated by the public, either through the state or through cooperatives. The basic motive is not to use the means of production for profit, but rather for the interest of social welfare.


The companies producing the materials in the USA to fight the Covid-19 virus still maintain the right to control production and negotiate the costs of the product with the government.
Click to expand...

Baby steps Karl, baby steps. Comrade Trump is forcing them to produce ventilators for the public good, is insisting on production quotas and attempting to control the prices.
 
Decypher said:
Baby steps Karl, baby steps. Comrade Trump is forcing them to produce ventilators for the public good, is insisting on production quotas and attempting to control the prices.
Click to expand...

The companies hold the right to how the product is produced, the wages, and to negotiate the price with the government.

Excerpt:

In a statement, Trump said, “Our negotiations with GM regarding its ability to supply ventilators have been productive, but our fight against the virus is too urgent to allow the give-and-take of the contracting process to continue to run its normal course. GM was wasting time. Today’s action will help ensure the quick production of ventilators that will save American lives.”

GM defended its efforts after the president’s earlier criticism, saying it was racing to produce more ventilators with the help of Ventec Life Systems. The company said it would be soon able to make tens of thousands of masks and ventilators a week.


Socialists governments don't negotiate...........period!
 
dirtpoorchris said:
GM is a piece of crap. Riasing the price of Ventilators from 20,000$ to 25,000$ each. When each one should cost 5-8,000$ but they have a inflated monopoly on the product. We should be tearing GM's stock prices even further into the ground and look for new honest producers.

25,000$ per ventilator during a time of crisis.....
Click to expand...

What? It's capitalism at its finest. I don't understand why republicans don't support this action from GM. Free markets and all that crap. This is what republicans truly care about, money.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I thought that a very smart person such as yourself would already know this?

Socialism:

In a socialist economy, the means of production and distribution are owned, controlled and regulated by the public, either through the state or through cooperatives. The basic motive is not to use the means of production for profit, but rather for the interest of social welfare.


The companies producing the materials in the USA to fight the Covid-19 virus still maintain the right to control production and negotiate the costs of the product with the government.
Click to expand...

But a product that they have been told to produce. Fascism is another word to look up while trying to deny that this is socialism. If it is government sponsored, especially with the people's taxes, it is socialism.

Free market is also a term to look up. Trump is clearly pushing government into private business and today's bail-outs, which are merely a hold over from "too big to fail," hardly promote the cherished idea of free market competitiveness. Virus or not, according to the theme, companies should succeed or fail on their own.

Now, I'm not arguing for or against this. These are crazy times and I believe that government has a place when it comes to leading its tax-paying citizens through it. But all of what is going on is traditionally very Democrat, not Republican. All of what is going on has been an anti- platform for Trump since before he was even elected. Yet, conservatives are cheering it on. How in hell do people feel that they can denigrate for years and years and then suddenly flip-flop without the rest of us laughing? And make no mistake. Directly after this crisis becomes history, all of these same conservatives will default right back to their false arguments about socialism, fascism, and free markets.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The companies hold the right to how the product is produced, the wages, and to negotiate the price with the government.

Excerpt:

In a statement, Trump said, “Our negotiations with GM regarding its ability to supply ventilators have been productive, but our fight against the virus is too urgent to allow the give-and-take of the contracting process to continue to run its normal course. GM was wasting time. Today’s action will help ensure the quick production of ventilators that will save American lives.”

GM defended its efforts after the president’s earlier criticism, saying it was racing to produce more ventilators with the help of Ventec Life Systems. The company said it would be soon able to make tens of thousands of masks and ventilators a week.


Socialists governments don't negotiate...........period!
Click to expand...

?! Yes, they most certainly do. This is why you will find socialism under democratic, communist, and fascist governments. You have merely been taught by Big Business and politicians to see socialism as only a communist (left) and fascist (right) ingredient.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The companies hold the right to how the product is produced, the wages, and to negotiate the price with the government.

Excerpt:

In a statement, Trump said, “Our negotiations with GM regarding its ability to supply ventilators have been productive, but our fight against the virus is too urgent to allow the give-and-take of the contracting process to continue to run its normal course. GM was wasting time. Today’s action will help ensure the quick production of ventilators that will save American lives.”

GM defended its efforts after the president’s earlier criticism, saying it was racing to produce more ventilators with the help of Ventec Life Systems. The company said it would be soon able to make tens of thousands of masks and ventilators a week.


Socialists governments don't negotiate...........period!
Click to expand...

Sounds like Comrade Trump is riding roughshod over those capitalist dogs at GM. No one said the revolution would be smooth running. Besides that quote from GM reminds me of the Stakhanovites:

The term Stakhanovite (стахановское) originated in the Soviet Union and referred to workers who modeled themselves after Alexey Stakhanov. These workers took pride in their ability to produce more than was required, by working harder and more efficiently, thus strengthening the Communist state. The Stakhanovite Movement was encouraged due to the idea of socialist emulation. It began in the coal industry but later spread to many other industries in the Soviet Union. The movement eventually encountered resistance as the increased productivity led to increased demands on workers.
Click to expand...
 
MSgt said:
?! Yes, they most certainly do. This is why you will find socialism under democratic, communist, and fascist governments. You have merely been taught by Big Business and politicians to see socialism as only a communist (left) and fascist (right) ingredient.
Click to expand...

You don't know what I have been taught so carry your desk clerk BS some where else.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
GM is a piece of crap. Riasing the price of Ventilators from 20,000$ to 25,000$ each. When each one should cost 5-8,000$ but they have a inflated monopoly on the product. We should be tearing GM's stock prices even further into the ground and look for new honest producers.

25,000$ per ventilator during a time of crisis.....
Click to expand...

Cuomo said companies are asking $45,000 now. Capitalism at its best, pure unadulterated GREED.
 
TomFitz said:
What makes anyone here actually believe that this actually amounts to anything other than Trump’s usual pattern of senseless dithering, followed by a largely senseless, but publicity grabbing stunt designed to make Trump look decisive, while hiding the fact that he dithered on this for a couple of days in the first place.

How America’s ventilator shortage became GM’s problem - Axios
Click to expand...

It appears its worse than we thought. GM tried to sell 7,500 ventilators for 1 billion dollars during a time of crisis... Thats 130,000$ for 1 god damn ventilator.
 
RetiredUSN said:
You don't know what I have been taught so carry your desk clerk BS some where else.
Click to expand...

What's a desk clerk BS?

And of course I know what you have been taught. You are the product of a former generation who were taught that socialism and the Soviet Union were one in the same.
 
GM still owes taxpayers 11 billion dollars from their bankruptcy bailout. If they wanna fleece us during a time of crisis and there is a way for government to force GM to stop profit seeking instead of producing at cost; thanks to them accepting bailouts i'm all for it.
 
Am I the only person here who is aware that GM does not know **** about manufacturing ventilators?
 
Napoleon said:
Trump has finally done something right in this crisis. Shame on GM for offering help only to demand a billion dollars to retrofit their factories. Good on Trump for ordering them to shove it and eat the cost.
Click to expand...
I think GM forgot that the American public bailed their butts out in 2008.
 
calamity said:
Am I the only person here who is aware that GM does not know **** about manufacturing ventilators?
Click to expand...
Do you think they could aford to hire a biomedical engineer or two. Or maybe just build it under the licence and plans from a ventilator manufacturer
 
Decypher said:
Baby steps Karl, baby steps. Comrade Trump is forcing them to produce ventilators for the public good, is insisting on production quotas and attempting to control the prices.
Click to expand...

Because it's an emergency situation.
 
calamity said:
Am I the only person here who is aware that GM does not know **** about manufacturing ventilators?
Click to expand...

Ford's doing it.
Distilleries are making hand soap.
A pillow company is making masks.
 
SLC said:
Do you think they could aford to hire a biomedical engineer or two. Or maybe just build it under the licence and plans from a ventilator manufacturer
Click to expand...

Why would anyone even consider a company that barely makes stuff in the US anymore, and never once made a ventilator, as the Go-To choice for such a daunting project?

I'll tell you why.

Trump is an idiot. That's why.


If he picked a General, he should have gone with GE. At least they still make most of their complicated crap in the US. GM does not. They outsource nearly everything, 90% off-shore: Transmission components come from Mexico, Engines are designed in Italy, electronics are shipped complete from China and South Korea, etc....at most, GM assembles things here. And, even that is limited these days to light and heavy trucks.

List of General Motors factories - Wikipedia

If I had to pick a vertically integrated manufacturer in the USA who can mass produce stuff on an industrial scale, I'd pick Honda of America.
 
Last edited:
Roadvirus said:
Because it's an emergency situation.
Click to expand...

Right like when the Third Estate assembled at the tennis court or the collapse of the Eastern Front.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom