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Thread: United Airlines warns of massive layoffs without federal aid

  1. #121
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    Re: United Airlines warns of massive layoffs without federal aid

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    What you might find amusing is

    "The cost of operating a commercial aircraft can be broken down into two main categories: airborne cost and ground cost. The airborne costs are the actual costs of flying the aircraft; the ground costs are the cost of the airframe, engine maintenance, as well as airport and hangar expenses. Both are typically measured hourly and are broken down per mile. The cost per seat mile is the cost of flying one passenger one mile and is used to measure operating costs. The average cost per seat mile is around 7 to 8 cents for low cost carriers and 11 to 12 cents for network carriers.

    Labor and fuel are the largest expenses, accounting for about 12% of the total cost. On average, a pilot’s salary begins at $36,000 and caps around $196,000. The average fuel consumption per 100 kilometers is 3.035 liters (78.5 mpg) for turbo props, 3.126 liters (76.3 mpg) for regional jets, 2.405 liters (100.5 mpg) for short haul, 2.74 liters (86.8 mpg) for medium haul, and 2.959 (80.84 mpg) liters for long haul."
    [SOURCE]

    That means that since the air travel shortest distance between New York and Los Angeles is 2,451 miles, it costs the airlines $294.12 (at 12˘/mi) to fly a passenger that distance (and that is assuming that the aircraft is full). The cheapest seat that I could find was a JetBlue super economy one at $83.00 but the stipulations surrounding getting that fare make it more of a bait and switch than an actual price. The major airlines (including JetBlue) appear to have a common price of $249.00 as their "realistic" lowest fare.

    If the aircraft is a 500 seater and is flying with only 100 passengers, then the cost per OCCUPIED passenger seat becomes 60˘/mi and that would mean that the "break even" fare would be $1,470.60. Now, a fare of $1,470.60 is obviously impractical, that means that the government is going to have to provide a subsidy of around $88,236 per flight just to ensure that Americans can fly from New York to Disneyland.
    Yes, having been in the aviation business my entire life, I know that the accountants have a field day in determining and attributing costs and revenue.

    In my old age, I would rather ride the train than the airlines, mainly because I can't stand the terminals post 911.

  2. #122
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    Re: United Airlines warns of massive layoffs without federal aid

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    United Airlines warns of massive layoffs without federal aid

    Obviously our domestic airlines industry is going to require a pretty significant bailout if they are to survive this. However, we would be crazy not to put some conditions on it. For example, they should have to agree to do away with domestic baggage fees.
    Our downfall is our own creation. A complete economy collapses in a situation such as Covid-19 because for decades the rich have become wealthier, the top 10% owns just about everything. Boeing has been in financial distress and close to bankruptcy for years. They just took a 70 billion dollar loan that they aren't going to be able to pay back. But Boeing will get more of our tax dollars because they're 'too big to fail'. What makes them too big to fail? Boeing employs 135,000 people and possibly another 200,000 sub-contractors. So how do you ramp it up again if Boeing fails? Those 300k + people would collect their 26 weeks of unemployment then get in soup line that's a block long.


    Airlines are begging for a bailout, but they've used 96% of their cash flow on buybacks over the past 10 years. It highlights an ongoing controversy over how companies have been spending their money.


    Airlines are begging for a bailout, but they've used 96% of their cash flow on buybacks over the past 10 years. It highlights an ongoing controversy over how companies have been spending their money. | Markets Insider







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    Re: United Airlines warns of massive layoffs without federal aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    Yes, having been in the aviation business my entire life, I know that the accountants have a field day in determining and attributing costs and revenue.

    In my old age, I would rather ride the train than the airlines, mainly because I can't stand the terminals post 911.
    Besides, they get really upset if you walk around and talk to people on aircraft (and they don't have as many bathrooms per passenger either).
    I was told that the best things for me were to eat healthy foods, walk up hills, stop smoking cigars, and cut out drinking Scotch.
    With my record, I don't _DESERVE_ the best. What's second best?
    (Retirement Dinner remarks)



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    Re: United Airlines warns of massive layoffs without federal aid

    The joke running around the internet is that we should tell the airlines we're giving them a bailout, but keep delaying it over and over and eventually cancel it and give them hotel vouchers.
    “personal attorney” to Individual-1, who at that point had become the President of the United States
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    I don't know who [Individual-1] is and neither do you.

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    Re: United Airlines warns of massive layoffs without federal aid

    I don’t care if AA goes out of business. Someone else will take their place.

    I refuse to fly thanks to long lines and the TSA, If I want to go cross country, I’ll Drive.

    Ive done Albuquerque to Mobile Al, less than 2 days, no big deal.
    (6 hr stop at motel). Cheaper than AA tickets.
    Last edited by Aberro; 03-28-20 at 07:30 PM.

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    Re: United Airlines warns of massive layoffs without federal aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberro View Post
    I don’t care if AA goes out of business. Someone else will take their place.

    I refuse to fly thanks to long lines and the TSA, If I want to go cross country, I’ll Drive.

    Ive done Albuquerque to Mobile Al, less than 2 days, no big deal.
    (6 hr stop at motel). Cheaper than AA tickets.
    And far less stressful.

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    Re: United Airlines warns of massive layoffs without federal aid

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The joke running around the internet is that we should tell the airlines we're giving them a bailout, but keep delaying it over and over and eventually cancel it and give them hotel vouchers.
    I don't know if that's funny because it so divorced from reality or if it's funny because it is so close to reality.

    The only time I ever had any flight problems was the one time that the takeoff was delayed by four hours (during which we had to sit in the NON air conditioned aircraft without anything to eat or drink so that we arrived at our destination after the airport had closed for the night and there were no arrangements made to deal with the passengers (either connecting or ending). The airline staff who were still on duty had all closeted themselves in the staff lounge and weren't about to budge to deal with the newly arrived passengers. It's amazing how much cooperation you can get when you ignore the "DO NOT ENTER signs so that you can tell people that you are about to telephone the local media outlets (and the local branches of the national/international media outlets) and let them know what is happening and that you want to speak to the president of the airline PERSONALLY in order to straighten it out.
    I was told that the best things for me were to eat healthy foods, walk up hills, stop smoking cigars, and cut out drinking Scotch.
    With my record, I don't _DESERVE_ the best. What's second best?
    (Retirement Dinner remarks)



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