Page 80 of 96 FirstFirst ... 3070787980818290 ... LastLast
Results 791 to 800 of 952

Thread: Phoenix artists don't have to make LGBTQ wedding invitations, Arizona Supreme Court rules

  1. #791
    Salem ac Leporem Lisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    7,624

    Re: Phoenix artists don't have to make LGBTQ wedding invitations, Arizona Supreme Court rules

    Quote Originally Posted by dixon01767 View Post
    Of course he did.

    "Held: The Commission’s actions in this case violated the Free Exercise Clause. ."

    That would be the commission that fined him for not providing the cake.




    The SCOTUS didn't rule on whether the baker had the right to refuse service because of his religious bigotry. They only ruled on whether the state of colorado was disrespectful to the baker when they called a religious bigot. They kicked the larger issue down the road but they left a very strong message at the very last paragraph of the ruling about how they would rule of that issue was the question.

    No, he didn't win.

    This is from the ABA, so are you going to say that the American Bar Association doesn't understand the ruling?
    But that was exactly the issue in Masterpiece Cakeshop: Is a business’s freedom to choose its customers more important than the government interest in stopping sexual orientation discrimination?

    The Supreme Court did not answer this question, but instead decided the case on narrower grounds by concluding that members of the Colorado Civil Rights Commission expressed impermissible hostility to religion. But with Justice Anthony Kennedy’s retirement, it is likely that there are five votes in the future to allow businesses to discriminate. This would open a potentially broad exception to federal, state, and local civil rights laws.
    Not a Masterpiece: The Supreme Court’s Decision in Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission

    In a 7–2 decision, the Court ruled on narrow grounds that the Commission did not employ religious neutrality, violating Masterpiece owner Jack Phillips' rights to free exercise, and reversed the Commission's decision. The Court did not rule on the broader intersection of anti-discrimination laws, free exercise of religion, and freedom of speech, due to the complications of the Commission's lack of religious neutrality.
    This is the last paragraph pf the ruling that I was referring to. They would not have ruled for the baker's right to discriminate.
    Justice Anthony Kennedy, who handed down the 7-2 ruling in the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, was explicit about this. As he wrote in the decision’s most important paragraph:

    The outcome of cases like this in other circumstances must await further elaboration in the courts, all in the context of recognizing that these disputes must be resolved with tolerance, without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs, and without subjecting gay persons to indignities when they seek goods and services in an open market.
    Condor060 said; Who was talking about Jesus? I posted scriptures from the bible. Try and keep up
    Quote Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
    Facts are not truth...

  2. #792
    Sage

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,143

    Re: Phoenix artists don't have to make LGBTQ wedding invitations, Arizona Supreme Court rules

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    In that case, there is no reason to exclude the religious moral practice of polygamy.
    The topic is cake, not marriage.

  3. #793
    Sage

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,143

    Re: Phoenix artists don't have to make LGBTQ wedding invitations, Arizona Supreme Court rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    No, he didn't win.

    This is from the ABA, so are you going to say that the American Bar Association doesn't understand the ruling?
    :
    Evidently you are not comprehending what the ABA is saying. He won. The ABA is a liberal cesspool. They don't like the ruling.

  4. #794
    Salem ac Leporem Lisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    7,624

    Re: Phoenix artists don't have to make LGBTQ wedding invitations, Arizona Supreme Court rules

    Quote Originally Posted by dixon01767 View Post
    Evidently you are not comprehending what the ABA is saying. He won. The ABA is a liberal cesspool. They don't like the ruling.
    Im tired of your lies.

    The SCOTUS didn't rule on the issue of his ability to deny service because of his beliefs if you can read. The court only ruled on a very minor issue of how the state of colorado referred to his religious beliefs him in a hearing.

    Why would Justice Kennedy insert that final paragraph into the ruling if the SCOTUS ruled on the issue of his right to deny service based on his religious bigotry?
    Condor060 said; Who was talking about Jesus? I posted scriptures from the bible. Try and keep up
    Quote Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
    Facts are not truth...

  5. #795
    Salem ac Leporem Lisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    7,624

    Re: Phoenix artists don't have to make LGBTQ wedding invitations, Arizona Supreme Court rules

    Quote Originally Posted by dixon01767 View Post
    The topic is cake, not marriage.
    A cake isn't religious and his beliefs aren't an issue when he bakes a cake for a customer.
    Condor060 said; Who was talking about Jesus? I posted scriptures from the bible. Try and keep up
    Quote Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
    Facts are not truth...

  6. #796
    Battle Ready
    Grim17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Southwestern U.S.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    28,513
    Blog Entries
    23

    Re: Phoenix artists don't have to make LGBTQ wedding invitations, Arizona Supreme Court rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    A cake isn't religious and his beliefs aren't an issue when he bakes a cake for a customer.
    They are an issue when a customer asks him to design and create a cake specifically to celebrate an event that violates his religious beliefs. This wasn't a case where a customer who was openly gay walked into his shop and said "I see you make German chocolate cakes... I'd like to order one." and the baker said "I'm sorry, you'll have to find another bakery." That in my opinion is refusing service to an individual based on their sexual orientation and would make for a very strong case against him if taken to court.

    What you and others seem to be overlooking is the fact that at least one of them had been a customer of that shop for 10 years, and never once in all that time had they ever been refused service or treated poorly. In fact, there were never any reported instances of that bakery refusing service to any protected individual since it's inception. To me, that says that the customer being gay was not the basis for his refusal... aka, no discrimination based on sexual orientation.

    .

  7. #797
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    US, California - federalist
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    22,557

    Re: Phoenix artists don't have to make LGBTQ wedding invitations, Arizona Supreme Court rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    They are an issue when a customer asks him to design and create a cake specifically to celebrate an event that violates his religious beliefs. This wasn't a case where a customer who was openly gay walked into his shop and said "I see you make German chocolate cakes... I'd like to order one." and the baker said "I'm sorry, you'll have to find another bakery." That in my opinion is refusing service to an individual based on their sexual orientation and would make for a very strong case against him if taken to court.

    What you and others seem to be overlooking is the fact that at least one of them had been a customer of that shop for 10 years, and never once in all that time had they ever been refused service or treated poorly. In fact, there were never any reported instances of that bakery refusing service to any protected individual since it's inception. To me, that says that the customer being gay was not the basis for his refusal... aka, no discrimination based on sexual orientation.

    .
    His beliefs are not an issue since a commercial Baker has no authority to consecrate any cake on a for-profit basis. It is just a work of Art in the form of a Cake.

  8. #798
    Salem ac Leporem Lisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    7,624

    Re: Phoenix artists don't have to make LGBTQ wedding invitations, Arizona Supreme Court rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    They are an issue when a customer asks him to design and create a cake specifically to celebrate an event that violates his religious beliefs. This wasn't a case where a customer who was openly gay walked into his shop and said "I see you make German chocolate cakes... I'd like to order one." and the baker said "I'm sorry, you'll have to find another bakery." That in my opinion is refusing service to an individual based on their sexual orientation and would make for a very strong case against him if taken to court.

    What you and others seem to be overlooking is the fact that at least one of them had been a customer of that shop for 10 years, and never once in all that time had they ever been refused service or treated poorly. In fact, there were never any reported instances of that bakery refusing service to any protected individual since it's inception. To me, that says that the customer being gay was not the basis for his refusal... aka, no discrimination based on sexual orientation.

    .
    A cake is not religious and he is not being asked to endorse their relationship or the wedding. He is baking a cake for a customer.
    Condor060 said; Who was talking about Jesus? I posted scriptures from the bible. Try and keep up
    Quote Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
    Facts are not truth...

  9. #799
    Guru
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,191

    Re: Phoenix artists don't have to make LGBTQ wedding invitations, Arizona Supreme Court rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    A cake is not religious and he is not being asked to endorse their relationship or the wedding. He is baking a cake for a customer.
    And he is willing to bake cakes for all his customers. Nothing has changed.

  10. #800
    Battle Ready
    Grim17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Southwestern U.S.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    28,513
    Blog Entries
    23

    Re: Phoenix artists don't have to make LGBTQ wedding invitations, Arizona Supreme Court rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    A cake is not religious and he is not being asked to endorse their relationship or the wedding. He is baking a cake for a customer.
    No, he was asked to both design and create a custom cake for a same sex wedding. Who entered the shop and ordered it (aka the customer) is irrelevant. He didn't refuse to provide his services based on the customer, he refused to provide his services based on the event he was asked to customize it for.

    I take it that you would also support a black baker being hauled into court and charged with discrimination for refusing a white customer's request to create a custom cake for a KKK gathering?

    .

Page 80 of 96 FirstFirst ... 3070787980818290 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •