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U.S. Supreme Court agrees to hear Democratic bid to save Obamacare

Luther said:
I think Trump and the Gop are doing a great job at saving Obamacare

It was suppose to implode when Trump first became prez remember?(LOL)
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Which MSM entity told you this?
 
Paradoxical said:
I have heard that argument but never been presented with any facts that County costs more. Why would it?
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They're not going to go to county until they are very very sick because county will send them a bill.
 
jpn said:
I imagine the reason you feel the need to "go over this a thousand times" is because your point holds some truth, in that some hospitals will cover critical injuries, but in essence carries no power.

Do people with diabetes automatically get all the medical care they need to manage their disease? No they do not. Incidence of diabetes is, on average, up 25% in states that expanded Medicaid under the ACA. Of course the number of people with diabetes didn't increase in those states. They were just able to go to a doctor and get a diagnosis for the first time.

And start treating it for the first time.

Which costs far less than amputating their limbs at hospitals that accept the uninsured, causing conservatives like you to jump up and down and yell "See! NO ONE is denied necessary medical care!!!" It's just a deliberately ignorant argument.

But let's get real: Earlier you were whining about your premiums. Why do you pay premiums at all if NO ONE is denied necessary care, insured or not? Why are you paying ALL that money for something you claim is not necessary?
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My posts are already long enough without adding stuff people won't read or care about. We live in a class system and the underclass is growing and growing. More than 50% of the people in the United States pay ZERO taxes because each year the government keeps raising people out of having to pay taxes, even though they work for wages. As you go down lower, you have people who live in apartments, have no assets, have an old car they paid for in cash or making small payments on, have no bank account to speak of and are barely squeaking by. The rest of this 50% are on welfare or work under the table or bum around or live at home or with friends and make money doing odd jobs or even selling drugs. Very few of these people get insurance through their employer because they work part time. THIS is the group that is the problem because if they get into a bad car accident, have a brain tumor, heart disease, stroke, cancer they MUST be treated and are. First at a regular hospital and then transferred to County. While they are technically on the hook for the costs, no one goes after them because they have no assets. The costs are passed on to you and I.

the next group above this are those who have a house ad assets such as a car, personal property and money in the bank, and are those who are generally responsible people. Not all of them work at companies that provide health insurance, some may have recently lost their jobs and, believe it or not, a fair amount are small business owners who take a chance and go uninsured. It is THESE people who are really screwed because the hospitals will come after them tooth and nail because they know they can get something back. They will take their house, their bank account and even their car eventually. I assert that THIS group is the only truly uninsured group in the United States because they will lose everything from an accident or illness and I find this extremely unfair when someone with no assets skates free, even if that person is an illegal alien.

Of course the group above this one always makes sure they have a job that provides insurance or has enough assets to buy it because they don't want to lose everything.

We need to be brutally honest as a society with the members of society. If you want to be treated by good doctors and hospitals like the rest, you need to pay. A progressive should like a flat tax on unnecessary goods and services, excluding food and staples like toilet paper, cleaning products, medicine, and a few other things. this makes the rich pay much more and should make progressives very happy. Everyone goes to a government run hospitals with government paid doctors who are not getting cheap wages because the taxes collected are adequate. For those who want the primo plans like breast milk pumps, and all manner of extras like a private room etc. you pay more and get to go to a facility that gives you what you want instead of just what you need.
 
iguanaman said:
If they want their wives to go back to work they do.
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Breast pumps used to be an option paid for by those who wanted them. Now health plans have to cover them.
 
vegas giants said:
Medical bankruptcy is crushing Americans
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You never read my posts. HOW can they get money from those without assets or a bank account? They write it off. They make a feeble attempt to collect and then eat it.
 
Old Sarge said:
I believe it is constitutional now that the individual mandate and penalty has been removed.
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You mean unconstitutional. The mandate and the "penalty" allowed its passing to begin with. Without the mandate and penalty it brings to question it's entire constitutionality.
 
Paradoxical said:
This has nothing to do with those people who have no assets. Are you paying attention to this thread?
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Yeah these people are having their lives destroyed by our system


It sucks
 
Paradoxical said:
The best way to do it is to just admit that the government cannot afford to give healthcare to everyone for free and call it what it is; a TAX. "Free" health care MUST be funded by TAXES. How else would it be paid for? The way Obama was trying to pay for it was a penalty to get around calling it a tax, which he knew wouldn't fly. Strangely the SC said the penalty was a tax and since the government has the power to tax, it was Constitutional. The penalty was way too low to cover anywhere near what the actual premiums would be and the public knew that so all those who were uninsured before stayed uninsured. If he was honest and charged a penalty of perhaps $2,500.00 that MIGHT be enough but he knew that wouldn't fly, either, so the penalties were a joke.

I get tired of the government intentionally trying to fool the stupid public and being dishonest. We need to do what other countries do and charge a VAT just for health care. I don't understand the liberals resistance to that at all except that it will expose the true costs of "FREE".
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Once again I find you all exercised about some tiny point that is either incorrect or imaginary or over-inflated. I never said "free." In other posts I've gone into some detail about how to fund M4A. Who is saying "free?" One of the most repeated criticisms I always see about Sanders is he isn't explicit how to pay for it. But I don't see him promising "free" coverage.

Also. No one ever suggested that the penalty for not being insured was going to be the primary source by which to pay for Obamacare. As I posted before, the importance of the penalty was not to pay for the program. It would never raise the requisite funds. The importance of the penalty was to eliminate "free riders" who take advantage of hospitals who are obligated to provide emergency care to those without insurance. Free riders increase the costs for everyone else. Also, if you require insurers to insure everyone, people would wait until they're sick before getting insurance. Which is unworkable.

Obamacare is funded by various means. The excise tax on the most expensive, so-called "Cadillac" insurance plans is expected to fund about 10% of the cost. Another 20% would be saved from the positive side effects of expanding insurance, like less reductions in uncompensated care. 30% would be generated by having those who earn a gross income over $200,000 pay 3.8 percent of investment income toward Medicare's hospital insurance. And so on.
 
Paradoxical said:
My posts are already long enough without adding stuff people won't read or care about. We live in a class system and the underclass is growing and growing. More than 50% of the people in the United States pay ZERO taxes because each year the government keeps raising people out of having to pay taxes, even though they work for wages. As you go down lower, you have people who live in apartments, have no assets, have an old car they paid for in cash or making small payments on, have no bank account to speak of and are barely squeaking by. The rest of this 50% are on welfare or work under the table or bum around or live at home or with friends and make money doing odd jobs or even selling drugs. Very few of these people get insurance through their employer because they work part time. THIS is the group that is the problem because if they get into a bad car accident, have a brain tumor, heart disease, stroke, cancer they MUST be treated and are. First at a regular hospital and then transferred to County. While they are technically on the hook for the costs, no one goes after them because they have no assets. The costs are passed on to you and I.

the next group above this are those who have a house ad assets such as a car, personal property and money in the bank, and are those who are generally responsible people. Not all of them work at companies that provide health insurance, some may have recently lost their jobs and, believe it or not, a fair amount are small business owners who take a chance and go uninsured. It is THESE people who are really screwed because the hospitals will come after them tooth and nail because they know they can get something back. They will take their house, their bank account and even their car eventually. I assert that THIS group is the only truly uninsured group in the United States because they will lose everything from an accident or illness and I find this extremely unfair when someone with no assets skates free, even if that person is an illegal alien.

Of course the group above this one always makes sure they have a job that provides insurance or has enough assets to buy it because they don't want to lose everything.

We need to be brutally honest as a society with the members of society. If you want to be treated by good doctors and hospitals like the rest, you need to pay. A progressive should like a flat tax on unnecessary goods and services, excluding food and staples like toilet paper, cleaning products, medicine, and a few other things. this makes the rich pay much more and should make progressives very happy. Everyone goes to a government run hospitals with government paid doctors who are not getting cheap wages because the taxes collected are adequate. For those who want the primo plans like breast milk pumps, and all manner of extras like a private room etc. you pay more and get to go to a facility that gives you what you want instead of just what you need.
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Thanks for the reply. IMHO you dodged the fact that you wrote: "NO ONE is denied necessary medical care, insured or not. Prove me wrong"
And I provided an example of where you were wrong.
You didn't mention that.

It's kind of odd that you wrote: "A progressive should like a flat tax on unnecessary goods and services, excluding food and staples like toilet paper, cleaning products, medicine, and a few other things. this makes the rich pay much more and should make progressives very happy."

Progressive don't like flat taxes. That's another discussion.

Anyway. Of course we have to pay. And the ones who can afford it the most should pay the most. We currently have a system in which Warren Buffett points out that he pays a lower percentage of federal tax than those staffing his office do.
 
Deuce said:
More likely your employer provides most of it for you.
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That's not really true anymore. Many jobs are listed as part-time - maybe 38 hours so they don't have to provide a healthcare plan.
 
Moderate Right said:
The goal is to get rid of Obamacare and replace it with a different plan that does cover pre-existing conditions. You know that but you continually lie about it.
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Rather the opposite - they want to replace it with something that does NOT cover pre-existing conditions. The ACA made it so that pre-existing conditions had to be covered.
 
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