• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump tries new approach for $1 trillion infrastructure plan

washunut said:
When exactly did republicans have 60 votes in the senate. The number needed to get something done. If the answer is NEVER would the above be considered a lie by a factchecker?
Click to expand...

You know, for tax and spending bills the Senate can use reconciliation to jam anything through on a straight majority. They did it with tax cuts. So it's not really an excuse. On budget matters, the GOP got what they cared about and infrastructure wasn't it. Sorry to burst your bubble, but handing out tax cuts to the donors was Job 1!

But on this specific issue, I really do not recall any infrastructure bill that got through the House that was jammed up by Democratic filibusters in the Senate. Can you tell us the case? In general, that's one area that compromise would seem easy.
 
JasperL said:
Just a reminder for the first two years, it was Republicans in the House to write the spending bills, because the GOP controlled the House. I'm sure it's somehow still the Democrats' fault that the GOP told Trump to go pound sand, but I thought I'd throw that out there anyway.
Click to expand...
I'm fully aware of that. And it was also a one seat majority in the Senate where it usually takes 60 votes to move legislation.
 
ludin said:
the tax cut was done via budget reconciliation. which is why it is not permanent. democrats hate tax cuts for working people.
Click to expand...

And spending bills can be passed with budget reconciliation.
 
ludin said:
it was proposed his first 2 years. pelosi refused to even get a bill going. you know her job. this has been common knowledge for a while. how do you not know this?
Click to expand...

Pelosi has the legislative power of a house plant in Trump's first two years, because the GOP controlled the House and could pass ANYTHING without a single Democratic vote. How do you not know this? This was common knowledge to everyone who followed politics even a little bit.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Dont be rude.
Click to expand...

Don't blindly run interference for Trump and the GOP by falsely blaming Pelosi for their failures. If Trump wanted to get an infrastructure bill through in the first two years, he didn't need to convince anyone but the GOP. He didn't care, and didn't try.
 
Pelosi didn't have to walk out of the infrastructure meeting though, that's the point.
 
JasperL said:
Don't blindly run interference for Trump and the GOP by falsely blaming Pelosi for their failures. If Trump wanted to get an infrastructure bill through in the first two years, he didn't need to convince anyone but the GOP. He didn't care, and didn't try.
Click to expand...
Assuming a) every Republican would have gone along; b) Pelosi would let it come to the floor; c) Senate McConnell could pull together 60 votes.
 
Bullseye said:
I'm fully aware of that. And it was also a one seat majority in the Senate where it usually takes 60 votes to move legislation.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but, again, spending bills can be passed through reconciliation just like tax bills can be. And if the GOP House passed an infrastructure bill, that's easy to find compromise on because both sides love big spending projects on visible infrastructure projects. Bottom line is the GOP didn't care and so didn't try to get anything done. Which is why there was no infrastructure bill stalled in the Senate due to Democratic filibusters.

At some point you have to blame the GOP for what they didn't do when they had the power to get things done. It's really not ALWAYS the Democrats' fault.
 
Bullseye said:
Assuming a) every Republican would have gone along; b) Pelosi would let it come to the floor; c) Senate McConnell could pull together 60 votes.
Click to expand...

Paul Ryan was speaker from 2017-2019, not Pelosi.

My goodness, it's amazing how much power you guys think Pelosi has. I agree she's far more effective at her job than Paul Ryan ever was, but when in the minority she really couldn't block anything from coming to the House floor.

And one way to make sure McConnell could not get 60 votes together for an infrastructure bill is for the House not to give a **** about it and never give the Senate a bill to work on which is what happened.
 
JasperL said:
You know, for tax and spending bills the Senate can use reconciliation to jam anything through on a straight majority. They did it with tax cuts. So it's not really an excuse. On budget matters, the GOP got what they cared about and infrastructure wasn't it. Sorry to burst your bubble, but handing out tax cuts to the donors was Job 1!

But on this specific issue, I really do not recall any infrastructure bill that got through the House that was jammed up by Democratic filibusters in the Senate. Can you tell us the case? In general, that's one area that compromise would seem easy.
Click to expand...

Not bursting any bubble of mine. I try to stick to reason and truth on this site unlike most others.

Reconciliation can be used to REDUCE the deficit,not increase it. So you would have to show an anaysis whereby any infrstructure bill would do just that.

As an example ACA needed 60 votes in the senate,not your magical 50. I am willing to call the post above an honest mistake and not a lie,not sure why.
 
washunut said:
Not bursting any bubble of mine. I try to stick to reason and truth on this site unlike most others.

Reconciliation can be used to REDUCE the deficit,not increase it. So you would have to show an anaysis whereby any infrstructure bill would do just that.
Click to expand...

That's just false, and you can't cite anything that support your assertion. TCJA increases deficits by about $1.5-2 trillion over the decade, and it passed through reconciliation.

As an example ACA needed 60 votes in the senate,not your magical 50. I am willing to call the post above an honest mistake and not a lie,not sure why.
Click to expand...

What kinds of bills can be passed with reconciliation is very limited. They mostly have to be just budget items, spending and taxes. Obviously it's not that simple, because spending $X on something imposes requirements on those getting the $X, but if you know anything about the ACA you have to know it had hundreds of provisions having nothing at all to do with budget matters, such as requirements for minimum coverage, pre-existing conditions, electronic medical records, the insurance mandate, requiring employers over a certain amount to offer insurance. Those hugely consequential changes didn't have anything to do with spending or taxes, and so could not be passed through reconciliation.

If you don't believe me, look it up. This article explains it. Start here: How Do Republicans Plan to Repeal Obamacare Using Reconciliation? - The Atlantic
 
JasperL said:
That's just false, and you can't cite anything that support your assertion. TCJA increases deficits by about $1.5-2 trillion over the decade, and it passed through reconciliation.



What kinds of bills can be passed with reconciliation is very limited. They mostly have to be just budget items, spending and taxes. Obviously it's not that simple, because spending $X on something imposes requirements on those getting the $X, but if you know anything about the ACA you have to know it had hundreds of provisions having nothing at all to do with budget matters, such as requirements for minimum coverage, pre-existing conditions, electronic medical records, the insurance mandate, requiring employers over a certain amount to offer insurance. Those hugely consequential changes didn't have anything to do with spending or taxes, and so could not be passed through reconciliation.

If you don't believe me, look it up. This article explains it. Start here: How Do Republicans Plan to Repeal Obamacare Using Reconciliation? - The Atlantic
Click to expand...

Just Google what you can pass through reconciliation. I did not bring it up as a partisan issue.

The republicans were able to pass their tax cut through what is called dynamic scoring. It is somewhat frustrating to be on a debate politics site and argue well known facts that people here either don't understand or skip because it does not lend itself to their narrative.
 
washunut said:
Just Google what you can pass through reconciliation. I did not bring it up as a partisan issue.

The republicans were able to pass their tax cut through what is called dynamic scoring. It is somewhat frustrating to be on a debate politics site and argue well known facts that people here either don't understand or skip because it does not lend itself to their narrative.
Click to expand...

LOL, that's hilariously wrong in every respect.

Reconciliation (United States Congress) - Wikipedia

Reconciliation bills can be passed on spending, revenue, and the federal debt limit, and the Senate can pass one bill per year affecting each subject. Congress can thus pass a maximum of three reconciliation bills per year, though in practice it has often passed a single reconciliation bill affecting both spending and revenue.[2]
....
Byrd Rule

The Byrd Rule defines any reconciliation changes to Social Security as "extraneous"—and therefore ineligible for reconciliation.
The Byrd Rule, named for Senator Robert Byrd, was adopted in 1985 and amended in 1990.[10] It has been used to remove certain provisions from a reconciliation bill in a process known as a "Byrd Bath".[11] The Byrd Rule defines a provision to be "extraneous"—and therefore ineligible for reconciliation—in six cases:[2]

If it does not produce a change in outlays or revenues;
If it produces an outlay increase or revenue decrease when the instructed committee is not in compliance with its instructions;
If it is outside the jurisdiction of the committee that submitted the title or provision for inclusion in the reconciliation measure;
If it produces a change in outlays or revenues which is merely incidental to the non-budgetary components of the provision;
If it would increase the deficit for a fiscal year beyond those covered by the reconciliation measure (usually a period of ten years);[c] or
If it recommends changes in Social Security.
Click to expand...

The ACA had hundreds of provisions that failed the bolded provisions of the Byrd Rule and either had no impact on federal spending or revenues, or where the change in budgetary items was incidental to budget items. Two big ones included pre-existing condition restrictions for private insurance plans, and the minimum coverage requirements for private insurance plans.
 
MauiMan said:
Trump tries new approach for $1 trillion infrastructure plan

"As a presidential candidate in 2016, Donald Trump promised a $1 trillion infrastructure plan that would use tax incentives to spur private investment in public works projects.
He has so far failed to persuade Congress to pass anything like that."

"Since outlining his budget proposal last week, Trump has done little to promote his new infrastructure plan. A politically divided Congress has no obligation to consider it. In fact, Trump’s prior infrastructure proposals all stalled, even when Republicans controlled both the House and Senate."

"Some Republicans already are lowering expectations. ‘The Republican House version of the bill won’t be a trillion dollars, I can tell you that right now,’ said U.S. Rep. Sam Graves, the ranking GOP member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. It will be a lot farther south than that.’ "

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Are you tired of lip service from Trump? Let’s get this done - vote Democrat in November!
Click to expand...

let's get rid of the drug war to pay for it.
 
MauiMan said:
Trump tries new approach for $1 trillion infrastructure plan

"As a presidential candidate in 2016, Donald Trump promised a $1 trillion infrastructure plan that would use tax incentives to spur private investment in public works projects.
He has so far failed to persuade Congress to pass anything like that."

"Since outlining his budget proposal last week, Trump has done little to promote his new infrastructure plan. A politically divided Congress has no obligation to consider it. In fact, Trump’s prior infrastructure proposals all stalled, even when Republicans controlled both the House and Senate."

"Some Republicans already are lowering expectations. ‘The Republican House version of the bill won’t be a trillion dollars, I can tell you that right now,’ said U.S. Rep. Sam Graves, the ranking GOP member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. It will be a lot farther south than that.’ "

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Are you tired of lip service from Trump? Let’s get this done - vote Democrat in November!
Click to expand...

I have heard that some people are saying that the next proposal is to attempt to push a HK$999,999,999,999.99 infrastructure plan (this, according to the experts at "Trump Accounting" result in a savings of over 87% from the original US$1,000,000,000,000 proposal and it would all be due to Mr. Trump's financial genius). Now I'm not true that the next proposal is to attempt to push a HK$999,999,999,999.99 infrastructure plan (which according to the experts at "Trump Accounting" result in a savings of over 87% from the original US$1,000,000,000,000 proposal and it would all be due to Mr. Trump's financial genius) or even that some people are saying the next proposal is to attempt to push a HK$999,999,999,999.99 infrastructure plan (which according to the experts at "Trump Accounting" result in a savings of over 87% from the original US$1,000,000,000,000 proposal and it would all be due to Mr. Trump's financial genius) or even that I have heard that some people are saying the next proposal is to attempt to push a HK$999,999,999,999.99 infrastructure plan (which according to the experts at "Trump Accounting" result in a savings of over 87% from the original US$1,000,000,000,000 proposal and it would all be due to Mr. Trump's financial genius), but if some people are saying that the next proposal is to attempt to push a HK$999,999,999,999.99 infrastructure plan (which, according to the experts at "Trump Accounting" result in a savings of over 87% from the original US$1,000,000,000,000 proposal and it would all be due to Mr. Trump's financial genius) - well then - - - you know.
 
Last edited:
Bullseye said:
If the Dem House won't right the spending bills there's not Trump can do about it.
Click to expand...
So what about the several hundred bills the House passed and sent to the Senate , that are sitting on McConnell's desk ?
several of them are infrastructure bills
don't go blaming the Dems. in the house when they have been doing their job and it is McConnell who isn't doing his
Have a nice afternoon
 
Tbird19482 said:
So what about the several hundred bills the House passed and sent to the Senate , that are sitting on McConnell's desk ?
several of them are infrastructure bills
don't go blaming the Dems. in the house when they have been doing their job and it is McConnell who isn't doing his
Have a nice afternoon
Click to expand...
LOL, yeah the bills made it to the Senate, loaded with tons of looney left landmines that no sane Republican would ever agree to. It a favorite Democrat trick; name the bill something appealing and innocuous then load it up with crap from the far left wish list. Then when the Republicans vote it down or table it all the libs whine and cry "Republicans hate the puppies and kittens this bill protects".
 
Bullseye said:
LOL, yeah the bills made it to the Senate, loaded with tons of looney left landmines that no sane Republican would ever agree to. It a favorite Democrat trick; name the bill something appealing and innocuous then load it up with crap from the far left wish list. Then when the Republicans vote it down or table it all the libs whine and cry "Republicans hate the puppies and kittens this bill protects".
Click to expand...

you ate 100% correct on this. these so called bills are loaded with piles of **** that would be 99% removed by the senate. it isn't worth the time to slog through the crap.
 
MauiMan said:
Trump tries new approach for $1 trillion infrastructure plan

"As a presidential candidate in 2016, Donald Trump promised a $1 trillion infrastructure plan that would use tax incentives to spur private investment in public works projects.
He has so far failed to persuade Congress to pass anything like that."

"Since outlining his budget proposal last week, Trump has done little to promote his new infrastructure plan. A politically divided Congress has no obligation to consider it. In fact, Trump’s prior infrastructure proposals all stalled, even when Republicans controlled both the House and Senate."

"Some Republicans already are lowering expectations. ‘The Republican House version of the bill won’t be a trillion dollars, I can tell you that right now,’ said U.S. Rep. Sam Graves, the ranking GOP member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. It will be a lot farther south than that.’ "

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Are you tired of lip service from Trump? Let’s get this done - vote Democrat in November!
Click to expand...

Its another sition of Trump moonglow and everyne knows it. There is no funding for it.

“The Republican House version of the bill won't be a trillion dollars, I can tell you that right now,” said U.S. Rep. Sam Graves, the ranking GOP member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. “It will be a lot farther south than that.”

Trump's retooled infrastructure plan relies on existing fuel tax revenue to cover much of the cost. That allows him to include billions of dollars worth of projects that likely would have happened no matter who was president.

White House budget documents show that Trump's plan lacks revenue sources for almost half the $1 trillion amount — about $450 billion proposed for roads and bridges, public transit, rails, ports, pipelines, dams, drinking water and sewer systems, and electrical and high-speed internet networks.

The proposal is “a fantastic development” that “would be a great shot in the arm for infrastructure improvements in this country,” said Dean Franks, head lobbyist for the American Road and Transportation Builders Association. But he added, “How to pay for it is always the big question.”

Improving the nation's infrastructure has been one of the few policy areas touted by both parties. But such talk has yet to result in action.
Click to expand...
 
Bullseye said:
LOL, yeah the bills made it to the Senate, loaded with tons of looney left landmines that no sane Republican would ever agree to. It a favorite Democrat trick; name the bill something appealing and innocuous then load it up with crap from the far left wish list. Then when the Republicans vote it down or table it all the libs whine and cry "Republicans hate the puppies and kittens this bill protects".
Click to expand...
LOL
Yes those Infrastructure bills that Some Republicans in the House voted for are " looney left landmines"
and just maybe IF McConnell would DO HIS JOB and brought the Bills that the House did pass to the floor of the Senate the Republican Senators would have the ability to read them and actually VOTE on them
AS of right NOW there are SEVERAL HUNDRED BILLS just SITTING on McConnell's desk that would do a LOT of good for the American people
AGAIN it is NOT the House NOT doing their job like TRUMP is telling all you right wingers IT IS McConnell who has his head so far up Trump's backside that isn't doing His job.
and in those SEVERAL HUNDREDS of bills the HOUSE already passed are several Infrastructure bills ( I am not going to post every bill I have already posted where you can see what Bills the House has already passed and are on McConnell's desk and if you are too lazy to go back and read them too bad )
AGAIN there are Bills on McConnell's desk that he won't let go to the Floor of the Senate because he wants to make it look like the House isn't doing their job and in doing that he lets Trump keep telling small minded Republicans like you that it isn't the Republicans fault nothing is getting done, it is all the Dems in the House's fault
PLEASE!!!!! educate yourself and lookup just how many bills the House past that are just sitting on McConnell's desk that not only infrastructure bills but bills that would help Americans
Have a good night
 
Bullseye said:
Assuming a) every Republican would have gone along; b) Pelosi would let it come to the floor; c) Senate McConnell could pull together 60 votes.
Click to expand...
LOL AGAIN
as I posted in my last post on here McConnell HAS ALREADY got several Bills along with several hundred other ones that HE will NOT bring to the Floor of the Senate
and in doing this he and Trump are telling small minded Republicans like you and others on here and all over the USA that the House isn't doing their job
Well IF they weren't doing their Job like Trump and McConnell are saying WHY are there SEVERAL HUNDRED bills sitting on McConnell's desk?
Have a nice night
 
ludin said:
you ate 100% correct on this. these so called bills are loaded with piles of **** that would be 99% removed by the senate. it isn't worth the time to slog through the crap.
Click to expand...

All they have is time. It's their job. You should be telling McConnell to do his job.
 
Michael Cole said:
All they have is time. It's their job. You should be telling McConnell to do his job.
Click to expand...

Why not tell pelosi to i don't know pick up a phone and call McConnell and talk about a bill that will pass and can be worked out?
why not tell pelosi to do something other than pile **** on top of ****?
 
ludin said:
Why not tell pelosi to i don't know pick up a phone and call McConnell and talk about a bill that will pass and can be worked out?
why not tell pelosi to do something other than pile **** on top of ****?
Click to expand...
The phone works both ways
Pelosi and the House have done their job so why isn't McConnell and the Senate doing theirs
maybe it is so they and Trump can tell their followers that we have a " do nothing House" when it is actually a do nothing Senate
have a nice day
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom