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1,100 Former Justice Dept. Prosecutors and Officials Press for Barr to Step Down

Hawkeye10 said:
With the speed at which America and in fact all of the West is failing "This is what we do" is not an argument at all. What we have long done is in fact likely to be a mistake in need of fixing. Believing what your betters tell you is certainly a bad idea....you must verify.
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So believing you would make you what? Our worser?
 
lurchadams said:
You have a right to your opinion regarding the consequentiality of Stone's offenses, however the 4 prosecutors who resigned in protest disagree with you as well as the over 1,000 former DoJ officials calling for Barr's resignation. I will defer to their opinion over yours.
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So what? As we speak the department has over 113,000 employees, and with turnover and retirements the last 40 years I am sure there are 100,000's of thousands of potential "officials" that could sign a petition.

Given the partisan Trump hate, I am shocked that the numbers actually signing is so trivial.

As for your lionization of badge heavy prosecution, folks you want unchecked by second opinion, I think that says your mentality and partisanship to all.
 
Michael Cole said:
The first reply of yours to my post, was trollbait. As has been every reply since. Again, If ya gonna play ya gotta pay.

You must be enjoying this or you'd have stopped by now.
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What's a former janitor for the DoJ supposed to do?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
With the speed at which America and in fact all of the West is failing "This is what we do" is not an argument at all. What we have long done is in fact likely to be a mistake in need of fixing. Believing what your betters tell you is certainly a bad idea....you must verify.
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You'll need to verify that thx.
 
maxparrish said:
So what? As we speak the department has over 113,000 employees, and with turnover and retirements the last 40 years I am sure there are 100,000's of thousands of potential "officials" that could sign a petition.

Given the partisan Trump hate, I am shocked that the numbers actually signing is so trivial.

As for your lionization of badge heavy prosecution, folks you want unchecked by second opinion, I think that says your mentality and partisanship to all.
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This is about Justice Dept officials doing their jobs. It's about the rule of law. It has nothing to do with hatred for Trump.

Second opinion is for health professionals. We don't get second opinions for legal judgements we don't like.
 
maxparrish said:
So what? As we speak the department has over 113,000 employees, and with turnover and retirements the last 40 years I am sure there are 100,000's of thousands of potential "officials" that could sign a petition.

Given the partisan Trump hate, I am shocked that the numbers actually signing is so trivial.

As for your lionization of badge heavy prosecution, folks you want unchecked by second opinion, I think that says your mentality and partisanship to all.
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Exactly what I was about to share. Now it's 2,000 according to Joy Reid on MSNBC. I admit I had no idea that over 100,000 were in
the department & no notion of how hard it will be to root out the deep state which is essential to get this country back on track!
 
Michael Cole said:
Except a jury convicted him. That's the issue at hand here. To me, seven felonies is in no way inconsequential. That people don't always take threats seriously does not make it any less egregious. The guidelines were by the book. Everyone involved is a professional. They did their jobs.

Remember what Barr said about Trump's tweets? How do you think our justice dept can operate if its work is undermined and overruled by Barr and Trump?
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Seven felonies of essentially the same nature for the same offense is consequential only in the sense that our law-making is constructed to create multiple overlapping charges for the same act. Such is meaningless in actually measuring the degree of wrong-doing.

How do we know this? Because that is what both the government and Stone's defense said so AND grouped them for sentencing purposes:

Stone, United States Probation, and the Government agree that, under the United States Sentencing Guidelines, the offenses of conviction are grouped, pursuant to U.S.S.G. § 3D1.2(b), and that the controlling guideline is U.S.S.G. § 2J1.2. The parties further agree that the base offense level is 14, which, for Stone, who the parties agree is in Criminal History Category I, has a corresponding advisory range of imprisonment of 15-21 months.
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(Defendant Brief)

As over dramatized as the refrain is of "seven" felonies, in this and many other instances they are essentially the same illegal act(s) just charged different ways. Hence, they are grouped and treated as ONE in sentencing.

I expect this nuance eludes you, and like the many knuckle draggers, parrot mangled nonsense uncritically.

Anyway, no one is disputing that this jury convicted him. What we are disputing is the insanely stupid "enhancements" piled on Stone by the Mueller team leftovers because he is associated with Trump.
 
Putin loving FBI hating Republicans.

The Republican Party has become what we fought to defeat throughout the 20th century.

Defeat.
 
Michael Cole said:
This is about Justice Dept officials doing their jobs. It's about the rule of law. It has nothing to do with hatred for Trump.

Second opinion is for health professionals. We don't get second opinions for legal judgements we don't like.
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No this is about Mueller left-overs doing "a job" on Stone and Flynn, out of line with evaluation of sentence guidelines by their supervisors at the Justice Department. And of course second opinions as a verification is for ALL professionals; accountants have auditors, scientists have peer reviews, architects have government plan checks (and in some localities require an engineers review and stamp).

And anyone who isn't trying to coverup dubious work should welcome another professionals review and check. Only crooks scream 'trust me' and 'nothing to see here' when the auditor arrives?

So why are you defending the methods of a crook?
 
maxparrish said:
Seven felonies of essentially the same nature for the same offense is consequential only in the sense that our law-making is constructed to create multiple overlapping charges for the same act. Such is meaningless in actually measuring the degree of wrong-doing.

How do we know this? Because that is what both the government and Stone's defense said so AND grouped them for sentencing purposes:

(Defendant Brief)

As over dramatized as the refrain is of "seven" felonies, in this and many other instances they are essentially the same illegal act(s) just charged different ways. Hence, they are grouped and treated as ONE in sentencing.

I expect this nuance eludes you, and like the many knuckle draggers, parrot mangled nonsense uncritically.

Anyway, no one is disputing that this jury convicted him. What we are disputing is the insanely stupid "enhancements" piled on Stone by the Mueller team leftovers because he is associated with Trump.
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I dunno. You haven't shown me anything...hold on...kinda hard to type as i drag my knuckles. Lol.

I'm calling bull****. Wanna know why? Because I got a DUI once. Because I also had a prescription for percoset, the state charged me with two offenses. The judge admonished the DA, so you'll have to do better here with your replies.

You don't get convicted of seven felonies if you only committed one. How they are grouped seems rather irrelevant, except in sentencing recommendations, which is what you're showing.

Seven felonies is seven felonies, no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

Did somebody say sugar? (Dragging my knuckles to the cookie jar. Ima gonna get my cookies!!)
 
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maxparrish said:
No this is about Mueller left-overs doing "a job" on Stone and Flynn, out of line with evaluation of sentence guidelines by their supervisors at the Justice Department. And of course second opinions as a verification is for ALL professionals; accountants have auditors, scientists have peer reviews, architects have government plan checks (and in some localities require an engineers review and stamp).

And anyone who isn't trying to coverup dubious work should welcome another professionals review and check. Only crooks scream 'trust me' and 'nothing to see here' when the auditor arrives?

So why are you defending the methods of a crook?
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Hold on...gotta check the thread I'm in...

...That's what I thought.

No, this letter is about Trump, Barr, the DoJ and the rule of law. Who signed it is irrelevant to what it is about.

No, you don't get second opinions on legal judgements you don't like. You get the appeal process. Good luck.
 
slick said:
Exactly what I was about to share. Now it's 2,000 according to Joy Reid on MSNBC. I admit I had no idea that over 100,000 were in
the department & no notion of how hard it will be to root out the deep state which is essential to get this country back on track!
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If you scratch a progressive, you will find a totalitarian.

Inside the Progressive Mind, by N. A. Halkides

The Progressive believes in precisely two things: his own magnificence and the constructive power of brute force. In combination, they lead him naturally from the role of pestiferous busybody to brutal dictator. Where the productive man dreams of the things he might create if only left alone by his fellows, the Progressive dreams of the world he could create if only the lives and property of his fellows were at his disposal. The roots of his pathology lie in that oldest and most destructive of all human vices, the desire for the power to rule over other men.
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Is it any wonder that the progressive worships the state in the same manner a devote Muslim worships Allah?
 
maxparrish said:
If you scratch a progressive, you will find a totalitarian.
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Yep, Sanders crowd. Scratch Stone, and he says, "Lower and to the left. Harder!"



Is it any wonder that the progressive worships the state in the same manner a devote Muslim worships Allah?
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Never saw that. Have heard that Trump was sent by God to save us, though. Just this morning. On TV. From a Republican.
 
Michael Cole said:
Hold on...gotta check the thread I'm in...

...That's what I thought.

No, this letter is about Trump, Barr, the DoJ and the rule of law. Who signed it is irrelevant to what it is about.

No, you don't get second opinions on legal judgements you don't like. You get the appeal process. Good luck.
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Might you avoid acting unusually obtuse? No one is talking about legal judgements other than you; we are talking about Barr's departmental recension of their sentencing recommendations for Stone, and departmental ordered reviews of work already performed on Flynn. This has NOTHING to do with a defendant seeking an appeal after conviction and sentencing (which, by the way, as of this writing is yet to be completed for either Stone or Flynn).

And by the way, 'second opinions' is EXACTLY what the Office of Inspector General does and has done.

Look, I can't converse with a poster who seems to know nothing and who relishs his ignorance of the issue under discussion. Do better or I'll have to move on.
 
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maxparrish said:
If you scratch a progressive, you will find a totalitarian.



Is it any wonder that the progressive worships the state in the same manner a devote Muslim worships Allah?
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It did not used to be that way but today ya......it is all about power.

But they dont worship the state, they worship victims.

They are a Victim Culture Cult.
 
Tangmo said:
Putin loving FBI hating Republicans.

The Republican Party has become what we fought to defeat throughout the 20th century.

Defeat.
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Not even close. The fascists and soviets were evil, but they were courageous. Today's GOP is a group of quivering cowards.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
It did not used to be that way but today ya......it is all about power.

But they dont worship the state, they worship victims.

They are a Victim Culture Cult.
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Lol. Poor widdle Trump. Always the victim. Why do Trumpists worship victims like they do?
 
maxparrish said:
Might you avoid acting like an unusually obtuse fool?
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Might you refrain from calling me a knuckle dragger?

Ya play ya gotta pay. Figure it out.

No one is talking about legal judgements, we are talking about the department internal review and recension of sentencing recommendations for Stone, and departmental ordered reviews of work already performed on Flynn. This has NOTHING to do with a defendant seeking an appeal after conviction and sentencing (which, by the way, as of this writing is yet to be done for either Stone or Flynn).

And by the way, 'second opinions' is EXACTLY what the Office of Inspector General does and done.

I can't converse with a poster who seems to know nothing and seems to relish in his ignorance.
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Speaking of being obtuse, when one seeks a second opinion, it is they who seek it, Duh! Correct me if I'm wrong, but defendants don't have the right to ask an iG for review of a judgement they don't like. Well, of course I'm not wrong. Now, you may want an IG report (what you call a second opinion), but it's not up to you. If one is warranted, one will occur; at least that's how it's supposed to work. Who knows what to expect from this administration.

If you're going to criticize people for not wanting a "second opinion," you should expect some pushback.

The letter, again, is about Trump, Barr and their intervention into a DoJ case. It's about the rule of law.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
It did not used to be that way but today ya......it is all about power.

But they dont worship the state, they worship victims.

They are a Victim Culture Cult.
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First, victims are not really worshipped because for the progressive they only serve as an excuse, a rationalization, for remaking society as the progressive sees fit. They are character props, the many disappointed and envious are cast as innocents without power. For every progressive that actually cares about a so-called victim, there are hundred more who mouth the platitudes and pray that these social losers don't set up a tent in their neighborhood.

Second, progressives generally value power over men more than they value power over things. The progressive utopian dreams of a world where he directs peoples income, housing, lifestyle, and property. The amulet of power of people warms his heart far more than acquiring mastery over his trade.

Third, progressives need to see their power lust in terms of being a humanitarian, a morally and intellectually superior individual whose subjective "knowing" grants him/her the gift of knowing whats best for others.

All of this compels a progressive to worship centralized power, to empower the state to ignore the liberties of others on behalf of their vision of the social good, to trust government under a "master state ideology" as "good" and the "invisible hand" as bad.
 
maxparrish said:
First, victims are not really worshipped because for the progressive they only serve as an excuse, a rationalization, for remaking society as the progressive sees fit. They are character props, the many disappointed and envious are cast as innocents without power. For every progressive that actually cares about a so-called victim, there are hundred more who mouth the platitudes and pray that these social losers don't set up a tent in their neighborhood.

Second, progressives generally value power over men more than they value power over things. The progressive utopian dreams of a world where he directs peoples income, housing, lifestyle, and property. The amulet of power of people warms his heart far more than acquiring mastery over his trade.

Third, progressives need to see their power lust in terms of being a humanitarian, a morally and intellectually superior individual whose subjective "knowing" grants him/her the gift of knowing whats best for others.

All of this compels a progressive to worship centralized power, to empower the state to ignore the liberties of others on behalf of their vision of the social good, to trust government under a "master state ideology" as "good" and the "invisible hand" as bad.
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Good post but here is where you go wrong as I see it.....The Regressive Left does not actually care how they gain power or how projects are managed...... what they care about is that they get what they want as soon as they can and with as little bother as they can....sometimes that will be by using government, sometimes people like Soros, sometimes NGO's, sometimes bullying corporations....It is UTOPIA that matters....Government is an important tool but it is just one of the tools.

The ends justify the means....what ever works....what ever is easiest.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Good post but here is where you go wrong as I see it.....The Regressive Left does not actually care how they gain power or how projects are managed...... what they care about is that they get what they want as soon as they can and with as little bother as they can....sometimes that will be by using government, sometimes people like Soros, sometimes NGO's, sometimes bullying corporations....It is UTOPIA that matters....Government is an important tool but it is just one of the tools.

The ends justify the means....what ever works....what ever is easiest.
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Both sides seek power. That is how our adversarial system works. We shouldn't be so much concerned that they do this, but in how much unchecked power they seek. How they do this, such as Bloomberg's attempt to buy the nomination, should also be troubling, but absolute power is the death knell to democracy. The Trump doctrine of absolute immunity is an expression of this. Sanders' promise to drastically alter the economy is another such expression of power. If you are truly concerned about power abuses, you should do everything you can to see Trump is replaced this November by someone other than Bernie Sanders (and probably Mike Bloomberg as well).
 
Michael Cole said:
Both sides seek power. That is how our adversarial system works. We shouldn't be so much concerned that they do this, but in how much unchecked power they seek. How they do this, such as Bloomberg's attempt to buy the nomination, should also be troubling, but absolute power is the death knell to democracy. The Trump doctrine of absolute immunity is an expression of this. Sanders' promise to drastically alter the economy is another such expression of power. If you are truly concerned about power abuses, you should do everything you can to see Trump is replaced this November by someone other than Bernie Sanders (and probably Mike Bloomberg as well).
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You mean the two people with the best odds of being the democrat challenger. The left does nothing but complain about Trump for 3 years and who do they offer up as a replacement? Two guys who are even worse. Nice job dems.
 
Epidemiologists night well devote some effort to a study of President of the United States of America Donald Trump. In particular, they could begin with an attempt to ascertain the degree of contact with President Trump needed to produce symptoms of moral corruption in those who spend time in his vicinity.

One problem they may face, given the current pool of Washington insiders, is identifying those who are not initially corrupt. Screening for a large enough sample to provide statistical validity may prove difficult.

And so it goes ...
 
Michael Cole said:
Not even close. The fascists and soviets were evil, but they were courageous. Today's GOP is a group of quivering cowards.
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Not to mention the fevered insane.


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