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At Munich Security Conference, an Atlantic divide: U.S. boasting and European unease

Somerville

Somerville

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"unease" Gee, I wonder why


At Munich Security Conference, an Atlantic divide: U.S. boasting and European unease

MUNICH — Germany's president offered a gloomy picture on the state of Europe's relations with President Trump's United States. Trump's top diplomat said Saturday that everything was just fine.

So it went at the annual Munich Security Conference, a Davos of the world's foreign policy elite. The transatlantic differences have grown so wide that they can no longer agree about whether they disagree.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo glossed over differences between Washington and its European allies on issues such as Iran, China and trade. He emphasized that the Western rules-based international order remains the best system for ensuring individuals rights and economic prosperity.

“I’m happy to report that the death of the transatlantic alliance is grossly overexaggerated. The West is winning, and we’re winning together,” Pompeo told an audience in Munich in a speech that mentioned Trump by name only once, in the opening greetings to his Trump administration colleagues.

His remarks followed those of German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier, who criticized Trump’s “America First” foreign policy a day earlier, saying that it came at the expense of European allies.

“Our closest ally, the United States of America, under the current administration, rejects the very concept of the international community,” he said.
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Then Secretary of State, Michael Pompeo spoke: Pompeo’s speech was met with silence from his mostly European audience. Some Europeans emerged from Pompeo’s speech with just as many doubts as ever.

If you can't read the Washington Post's article -- Munich Security Conference 2020: latest news
 
Somerville said:
"unease" Gee, I wonder why




Then Secretary of State, Michael Pompeo spoke: Pompeo’s speech was met with silence from his mostly European audience. Some Europeans emerged from Pompeo’s speech with just as many doubts as ever.

If you can't read the Washington Post's article -- Munich Security Conference 2020: latest news
Click to expand...

Hmm, no.

Trump's push for "America First" does not equate to "rejecting the international community."

It equates to recognition that we are a sovereign State, as we recognize the existence of other sovereign States. It also recognizes that we are not going to be taken advantage of by other nations, as we seem to have been for quite some time.

That we want FAIR trade; EQUAL commitment to NATO and other treaty agreements with allies; to pay a FAIR SHARE of any aid packages with enforceable commitments that such aid is being used solely for the purposes it was allocated.

In short, we don't want to be that "rich Uncle Sam" all the relatives come to for money, while talking down about him behind his back (and sometimes in front of his face).
 
Captain Adverse said:
Hmm, no.

Trump's push for "America First" does not equate to "rejecting the international community."

It equates to recognition that we are a sovereign State, as we recognize the existence of other sovereign States. It also recognizes that we are not going to be taken advantage of by other nations, as we seem to have been for quite some time.

That we want FAIR trade; EQUAL commitment to NATO and other treaty agreements with allies; to pay a FAIR SHARE of any aid packages with enforceable commitments that such aid is being used solely for the purposes it was allocated.

In short, we don't want to be that "rich Uncle Sam" all the relatives come to for money, while talking down about him behind his back (and sometimes in front of his face).
Click to expand...

Three years ago our allies waited and hoped that Trump would grow up and become a rational, responsible grownup. He hasn't.
 
Somerville said:
"unease" Gee, I wonder why




Then Secretary of State, Michael Pompeo spoke: Pompeo’s speech was met with silence from his mostly European audience. Some Europeans emerged from Pompeo’s speech with just as many doubts as ever.

If you can't read the Washington Post's article -- Munich Security Conference 2020: latest news
Click to expand...

Because trump still insists that they pay for defense. It is either that or else they become cucks to The New Chinese Empire. The days of America carrying them are over. Sadly they are having a hard time adjusting to the new reality of the failure of America. They should consider getting better.
 
And Nancy's there trying her best to increase the divide...

Christiane Amanpour: “What about, though, the fact that the president seems liberated, and this is about democratic politics so I’m not asking you to criticize here, but he was acquitted, his poll ratings are high…”

Nancy Pelosi: “He was not… there was no… You can’t have an acquittal unless you have a trial, and you can’t have a trial unless you have witnesses and documents. So he can say he’s acquitted, and the headlines can say ‘acquitted,’ but he’s impeached forever, branded with that, and not vindicated.”

Click to expand...
 
Mycroft said:
And Nancy's there trying her best to increase the divide...
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What the dimwit is actually saying is there was no House Impeachment... as that is where you have the investigation with witnesses and documents.
 
zimmer said:
What the dimwit is actually saying is there was no House Impeachment... as that is where you have the investigation with witnesses and documents.
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"witnesses and documents" that were blocked from the investigating committees
 
HumblePi said:
Three years ago our allies waited and hoped that Trump would grow up and become a rational, responsible grownup. He hasn't.
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There opiniins are irelevant.
 
apdst said:
There opiniins are irelevant.
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* their opinions are irrelevant *

They are not irrelevant since they are US Senators, they are very relevant.
 
HumblePi said:
* their opinions are irrelevant *

They are not irrelevant since they are US Senators, they are very relevant.
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Foreign governments are United States senators, now? :lamo
 
Captain Adverse said:
Hmm, no.

Trump's push for "America First" does not equate to "rejecting the international community."

It equates to recognition that we are a sovereign State, as we recognize the existence of other sovereign States. It also recognizes that we are not going to be taken advantage of by other nations, as we seem to have been for quite some time.

That we want FAIR trade; EQUAL commitment to NATO and other treaty agreements with allies; to pay a FAIR SHARE of any aid packages with enforceable commitments that such aid is being used solely for the purposes it was allocated.

In short, we don't want to be that "rich Uncle Sam" all the relatives come to for money, while talking down about him behind his back (and sometimes in front of his face).
Click to expand...

Yes, it clearly does!

Even now, in the wake of the Trump Administration’s shameful retreat from the rebel area of Syria and western Iraq, the Syrians and the Russians wasted no time whatsoever in barrel bombing and gassing their way through the civilian population, leaving 800,000 refugees in their wake. All this without so much as a by your leave from Washington, and not a peep from the Fox propoganda ministry, where mention of inconvenient truths tend to offend the delicate sensibilities of their Trumpster audience.

All this, while the Americans try and bully NATO into taking over their presence in Baghdad, effectively trying to dump the cleanup of the mess Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld make off on someone else.

And they’re bellowing about the Russia gas pipeline, even as they tacitly aid Moscow in its war against Ukraine.
 
TomFitz said:
Yes, it clearly does!

Even now, in the wake of the Trump Administration’s shameful retreat from the rebel area of Syria and western Iraq, the Syrians and the Russians wasted no time whatsoever in barrel bombing and gassing their way through the civilian population, leaving 800,000 refugees in their wake. All this without so much as a by your leave from Washington, and not a peep from the Fox propoganda ministry, where mention of inconvenient truths tend to offend the delicate sensibilities of their Trumpster audience.

All this, while the Americans try and bully NATO into taking over their presence in Baghdad, effectively trying to dump the cleanup of the mess Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld make off on someone else.

And they’re bellowing about the Russia gas pipeline, even as they tacitly aid Moscow in its war against Ukraine.
Click to expand...
The Republican mantra today is to let the Taliban, the Putin's and Kim Jong Jrs, Maduros and Dutertes of the world make a fool out of the president as long as the liberals are being triggered. If that comes at the cost of breaking multilateral deals, and blowing dictators on public television, while giving a middle finger to our institutions, so be it.

Everything else is jingoism to excuse the reality we live in.

You didn't seriously think Captain Adverse would have an independent thought on the matter, did you?



Я Баба Яга [emoji328]
 
Hatuey said:
The Republican mantra today is to let the Taliban, the Putin's and Kim Jong Jrs, Maduros and Dutertes of the world make a fool out of the president as long as the liberals are being triggered. If that comes at the cost of breaking multilateral deals, and blowing dictators on public television, while giving a middle finger to our institutions, so be it.

Everything else is jingoism to excuse the reality we live in.

You didn't seriously think Captain Adverse would have an independent thought on the matter, did you?



Я Баба Яга [emoji328]
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Trump couldn’t find Ukraine on a map! (But then, evidently, neither could Mike Pompeo).
 
apdst said:
Still hung up on the Russia collusion? Y'all are worse than the birthers. :lamo
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Birtherism never had any basis in fact.

Indeed, it was the Provence of carnival barkers like Trump.

No exhaustive investigation documented a more or less routine pattern of communication between officials affiliated with the Trump campaign, or aligned or associated with it or with Trump/

The list is very long and well documented.

Moreover, it is hardly a secret that Trump has been totally dependent on financing through his Russian money laundering connections. No Wall Street bank will even look at a Trump deal.

Why do you think Trump goes to such extraordinary lengths to conceal his finances. Why do you think that Russian oligarchs and their bag men keep turning up regularly in the Trump team? Do you really think it’s a coincidence that Crazy Rudy’s two Russian elves come from the same shady taxicab medallion world that begat Cohen, Felix Slater, and Dimitri Firtash?

Why does Trump bow down to Putin at every chance? (Don’t pretend to deny it, either).

As I said, it was hardly a secret that Trump’s alway shaky real estate empire was up to its neck in Russian money launderers and Russian backed debt. All you had to do was follow the business pages. (The other reason why Trump hides his fianances is the reason Michael Bloomberg pointed out).
 
TomFitz said:
Birtherism never had any basis in fact.

Indeed, it was the Provence of carnival barkers like Trump.

No exhaustive investigation documented a more or less routine pattern of communication between officials affiliated with the Trump campaign, or aligned or associated with it or with Trump/

The list is very long and well documented.

Moreover, it is hardly a secret that Trump has been totally dependent on financing through his Russian money laundering connections. No Wall Street bank will even look at a Trump deal.

Why do you think Trump goes to such extraordinary lengths to conceal his finances. Why do you think that Russian oligarchs and their bag men keep turning up regularly in the Trump team? Do you really think it’s a coincidence that Crazy Rudy’s two Russian elves come from the same shady taxicab medallion world that begat Cohen, Felix Slater, and Dimitri Firtash?

Why does Trump bow down to Putin at every chance? (Don’t pretend to deny it, either).

As I said, it was hardly a secret that Trump’s alway shaky real estate empire was up to its neck in Russian money launderers and Russian backed debt. All you had to do was follow the business pages. (The other reason why Trump hides his fianances is the reason Michael Bloomberg pointed out).
Click to expand...

Neither did Russia collusion.
 
TomFitz said:
Yes, it clearly does!

Even now, in the wake of the Trump Administration’s shameful retreat from the rebel area of Syria and western Iraq, the Syrians and the Russians wasted no time whatsoever in barrel bombing and gassing their way through the civilian population, leaving 800,000 refugees in their wake. All this without so much as a by your leave from Washington, and not a peep from the Fox propoganda ministry, where mention of inconvenient truths tend to offend the delicate sensibilities of their Trumpster audience.

All this, while the Americans try and bully NATO into taking over their presence in Baghdad, effectively trying to dump the cleanup of the mess Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld make off on someone else.
Click to expand...

Let me put it this way.

The USA is not and should never be the "World's policeman."

If you think this is not my established view, simply look at my introductory "Hi, I'm new" post shortly after I joined back in June 2013:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/come...nyone-wanna-add-me-freind.html#post1061995813

We should not be in Syria.

We should not be in Iraq.

We should not be in Afghanistan.

Nor Africa, Asia, or anywhere else that other nations want us to put American bodies between them and their enemies.

Not without a clear declaration of war. Even then only as long as it takes to defeat the military forces and allow for the establishment of an interim government. Then let the citizens decide what they want their own nation to be. WE PULL OUT REGARDLESS!

Trump wanted to pull out as soon as ISIS forces were defeated. Congressmen, Senators, and people like YOU of both Parties and "other" viewpoints screamed bloody murder. So he stayed, but he still wants to pull out and so do I.

TomFitz;1071361386And they’re bellowing about the Russia gas pipeline said:
tacitly aid Moscow in its war against Ukraine[/B].
Click to expand...

And? We are an energy exporter now. So in your hate for Trump, you'd prefer Europe become dependent on Russia (the nation NATO was established to defend against) led by Putin and other oligarchs to take control of Europe's energy needs? I bet you also think China should control the South China sea. :coffeepap:
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Let me put it this way.

The USA is not and should never be the "World's policeman."

If you think this is not my established view, simply look at my introductory "Hi, I'm new" post shortly after I joined back in June 2013:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/come...nyone-wanna-add-me-freind.html#post1061995813

We should not be in Syria.

We should not be in Iraq.

We should not be in Afghanistan.

Nor Africa, Asia, or anywhere else that other nations want us to put American bodies between them and their enemies.

Not without a clear declaration of war. Even then only as long as it takes to defeat the military forces and allow for the establishment of an interim government. Then let the citizens decide what they want their own nation to be. WE PULL OUT!

Trump wanted to pull out as soon as ISIS forces were defeated. Congressmen, Senators, and people like YOU of both Parties and "other" viewpoints screamed bloody murder. So he stayed, but he still wants to pull out and so do I.



And? We are an energy exporter now. So in your hate for Trump, you'd prefer Europe become dependent on Russia (the nation NATO was established to defend against) led by Putin and other oligarchs to take control of Europe's energy needs? I bet you also think China should control the South China sea. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

I have no use for isolationism.

World power comes with responsibilities for global leadership.

The United States didn’t learn that lesson after the Great War, thus helping to insure the second one.

My dad didn’t go over the side at Omaha Beach to go back to Coolidge era thinking. Especially if it’s going to be accompanied by the chest thumping ugly American jingoism that makes Trump a global embarrassment and an international pariah.
 
Editor’s corrections in red:

Somerville said:
"witnesses and documents" that were blocked by the Democrats supposed investigating committees
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Exactly... Schiff & Co.
 
TomFitz said:
I have no use for isolationism.

World power comes with responsibilities for global leadership.

The United States didn’t learn that lesson after the Great War, thus helping to insure the second one.

My dad didn’t go over the side at Omaha Beach to go back to Coolidge era thinking. Especially if it’s going to be accompanied by the chest thumping ugly American jingoism that makes Trump a global embarrassment and an international pariah.
Click to expand...

What a bunch of fallacious hyperbole. :roll:

Not wanting to be the "World's Policeman" does not equate to "Isolationism." :no:

We honor our defensive treaties with all allies. We engage in trade negotiations, and other diplomacy. We defend our citizens against all foes foreign and domestic.

What we don't do is waste American lives to prove how tough we are. Nor to pretend we are the "good guys."

How has 18 years of Middle East occupation/conflict starting with the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 been for you? That's almost 3 times as long as Vietnam, and not even counting the "occupation" period started during and after the Gulf War circa 1990.

Not being "jingoist" is not the same as being "isolationist." Try again. :coffeepap:
 
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