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[W:91]**Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

goldkam said:
There is absolutely no proof suggesting opportunities have been lost. If you can provide a link or court decision with explicit reference to lost opportunities or similar I will consider my view. If you could also provide scientific proof that these people of whom are transgender have a physical advantage.

The article is hypocritical as it suggests woman should have rights but transgender people can only have rights that suit others. What you need to understand is its not as simple to say that a transgender person is physically male now they have become a woman, there are so many other factors you are ignoring.
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Again, read the OP. It's not a hypothetical. These women, who are physically women, are losing championship races to two runners who are physically male. They are losing the opportunity to win these races - 15 of them so far. I'm sure you will potentially lead to a loss of scholarship opportunities, both in track, and where used on other types of scholarship applications.

There is also no denying that male runners have a physical advantage over female runners due to a number of factors. I'm not sure what 'other factors' you are alluding to.

And this has nothing to do with 'transgender rights'. It's an issue of rules governing a competition where divisions are made on the basis of physical characteristics. The categories are there for a reason.
 
Renae said:
That's nice, I'ma woman. My gender is woman. I have breasts and soon a neo vagina. I'm sorry science hasn't evolved far enough for you, one wonders if it ever could.

You are right my SEX cannot change, educated people understand that sex and gender are not tied and science has its limits. You're the type of person that if tomorrow they could transfer my mind into a new cloned fully XX female body would say "You're still male because your brain patterns were formed male!" You and people like you are shrinking segment of the population, hung up on fear, ignorance and hatred.
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Out of curiosity, you seem to agree with the trans in women's sports issue with most people. How do you feel about the locker room issue pre-surgery?
 
buck said:
Out of curiosity, you seem to agree with the trans in women's sports issue with most people. How do you feel about the locker room issue pre-surgery?
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I think you got it wrong about Renae on males in female athletic competition.

I am interested in Renae's view of transgender who still have their genitals in girl's showers in school and public swimming pools. She probably has stated it, but I don't remember.
 
buck said:
Out of curiosity, you seem to agree with the trans in women's sports issue with most people. How do you feel about the locker room issue pre-surgery?
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If say, it's a sport that's more casual and the group agrees, like say an amature bowling league where I compete as Renae, woman... that's fine. I did make it clear that I would not be upset nor contest if they chose to list me as male. they didn't and I don't own all the state, my friday night league is brutal comp :p But let's say I was 19, transitioning and tried to sprint ( I ran a 4.65 40) that would be dead wrong. Serious competition, stamina, strength, body mass is a serious factor, sorry but ladies, you need to understand it's not hate to say " No you cannot ".

I've also, said repeatedly that a pre GRS transperson, MTF/FTM, should NOT use a public locker room and get naked. That's out of common courtesy and respect for all. Sure, adults should be able to handle seeing a penis or a vagina, but it's more about the kids. You should not have to explain to little Jane why that nice lady has a penis in the public pool shower locker area (or Timmy why that man doesn't have a penis..).

Post op? Go for it, no one should say boo.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Does that happen when Trump is intruding into beauty pageant dressing rooms when the young girls are naked or some other time?
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C’mon Rouge.... a straw man? You’re better than that. If anybody can make a cogent argument for biological males participating in female sports events, I’d expect you can.
I think the girls suing have a strong case. They are saying being biologically male gives them an unfair advantage. I believe that’s pretty accurate.
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

ecofarm said:
No transgender person has ever won a sporting event of any significance and one probably never will. Perhaps 1% of people are transgender. Perhaps 1% of transgender people are athletes. Of transgender athletes, perhaps .01% will ever make it to the professional level. Transgender people do not exist in significant enough population to ever affect any sport. If a transgender person ever wins a significant event, it will change nothing and signify only a greater acceptance of transgender people.

The suit is fear-mongering and hate. There's no real issue.
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When I was in high school football, numerous games during the season felt significant, every playoff game felt significant. District, regional and state track meets also felt significant to me at the time. You are using the word "significant" to discount any sporting event that you don't consider significant while ignoring that for those competing, they are very significant. In the same way you might not consider my job significant but My family and I very much do.

So the whole "significant" thing is a red herring. Either we should allow much strong and much faster transgender athletes to compete with girls/women or we shouldn't. It's either unfair or it's not.

I feel bad for transgender athletes that just want to compete and have fun. But we can't give them an unfair advantage just to allow them to compete in sporting events that have real world consequences. There are non-competitive sports outside of schools that would be a better fit.
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

roughdraft274 said:
When I was in high school football, numerous games during the season felt significant, every playoff game felt significant. District, regional and state track meets also felt significant to me at the time. You are using the word "significant" to discount any sporting event that you don't consider significant while ignoring that for those competing, they are very significant. In the same way you might not consider my job significant but My family and I very much do.

So the whole "significant" thing is a red herring.
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Anecdotal horse**** supporting hate. Typical.
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

ecofarm said:
Anecdotal horse**** supporting hate. Typical.
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I don't support hate. But I can see why you'd say that if you had no valid response to the points made.
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

ecofarm said:
Anecdotal horse**** supporting hate. Typical.
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Can you explain why you keep discounting people who disagree with you with terms like, "horse****", "typical", and "hate"?

Do you disagree that many view high school sporting events as 'significant', or that success in high school sports can lead to scholarship and other opportunities?
 
Renae said:
If say, it's a sport that's more casual and the group agrees, like say an amature bowling league where I compete as Renae, woman... that's fine. I did make it clear that I would not be upset nor contest if they chose to list me as male. they didn't and I don't own all the state, my friday night league is brutal comp :p But let's say I was 19, transitioning and tried to sprint ( I ran a 4.65 40) that would be dead wrong. Serious competition, stamina, strength, body mass is a serious factor, sorry but ladies, you need to understand it's not hate to say " No you cannot ".

I've also, said repeatedly that a pre GRS transperson, MTF/FTM, should NOT use a public locker room and get naked. That's out of common courtesy and respect for all. Sure, adults should be able to handle seeing a penis or a vagina, but it's more about the kids. You should not have to explain to little Jane why that nice lady has a penis in the public pool shower locker area (or Timmy why that man doesn't have a penis..).

Post op? Go for it, no one should say boo.
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Thank you. from what I've read from you, I think we agree on most issues related to this subject.

From what I've seen, I suspect a lot of trans individuals agree with you. They just aren't the vocal ones and would rather just live their lives rather than making it about their identity.
 
Rather odd that the so called 'party of science' won't admit the science based facts that male to female transgender athletes have physical and biological advantages over women competing in sports.

I don't want to deny transgender athletes the opportunity to compete in athletics, but I don't want to present an unfair and not level field of on which to compete to the female athletes either.

Wouldn't a possible solution be to have a male to female transgender and female to male transgender competitions along side the others? At least that way it'd be fair to everyone, wouldn't it?
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

dcsports said:
Can you explain why you keep discounting people who disagree with you with terms like, "horse****", "typical", and "hate"?
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Anger issues.
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

ecofarm said:
Anecdotal horse**** supporting hate. Typical.
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That's no better than a Trump supporter's response. It's easy to sacrifice something when you don't have a personal stake in it. I mean it's only women's sports, who really cares right? It's not like women's sports are legitimate. :doh

Women face a uphill struggle for any kind of legitimacy. Payouts are smaller, events are fewer, salaries are generally non existent, and female athletes are perpetually objectified. There's a reason why most of the most famous female athletes are good looking.... But despite this, the work female athletes put in and the sacrifices they make aren't any different than their male counterparts. The difference is biology.

Biological gender is not gender identity. Otherwise there couldn't even be a concept of transgenderism. And genitalia doesn't define either biology or identity. If you were kidnapped and were forced to have gender assignment surgery would your gender change? Or if a soldier has their legs blown off at the waist are they suddenly non-gendered? I think not.

There's a lot of legitimate gray territory here. And slapping hate labels on anyone you disagree with is just bullying.
 
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buck said:
Thank you. from what I've read from you, I think we agree on most issues related to this subject.

From what I've seen, I suspect a lot of trans individuals agree with you. They just aren't the vocal ones and would rather just live their lives rather than making it about their identity.
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I'm on a Right Wing LGBT Reddit, and for the most part, there are more conservatively minded trans folks out there than one might think based on the loud people
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

roughdraft274 said:
I feel bad for transgender athletes that just want to compete and have fun. But we can't give them an unfair advantage just to allow them to compete in sporting events that have real world consequences. There are non-competitive sports outside of schools that would be a better fit.
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That's hate. It's brutal marginalization.

"Feel bad". Sure.
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

Mithros said:
.

There's a lot of legitimate gray territory here. And slapping hate labels on anyone you disagree with is just bullying.
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And standard operating procedures for liberals.
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

ecofarm said:
That's hate. It's brutal marginalization.

"Feel bad". Sure.
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You sure that's hate? Cause there are some people I hate, and this aint the same feeling. So if you're using the word hate, you're using it in a way that's different from any meaning that I've seen it used in the past.

My nephew signed up for pee-wee football. There's a kid that's over the eight limit and isn't allowed to play though he's the right age. I don't think he should be playing with the other kids because of his size and strength. An extra 40lbs hitting you when you are talking about 8 year olds can be dangerous.

Do I hate this kid? Or am I just being realistic?
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

roughdraft274 said:
You sure that's hate? Cause there are some people I hate, and this aint the same feeling. So if you're using the word hate, you're using it in a way that's different from any meaning that I've seen it used in the past.

My nephew signed up for pee-wee football. There's a kid that's over the eight limit and isn't allowed to play though he's the right age. I don't think he should be playing with the other kids because of his size and strength. An extra 40lbs hitting you when you are talking about 8 year olds can be dangerous.

Do I hate this kid? Or am I just being realistic?
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You can review a 'retread' of this conversation (by me) starting with post 236.

Best of luck.
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

roughdraft274 said:
When I was in high school football, numerous games during the season felt significant, every playoff game felt significant. District, regional and state track meets also felt significant to me at the time. You are using the word "significant" to discount any sporting event that you don't consider significant while ignoring that for those competing, they are very significant. In the same way you might not consider my job significant but My family and I very much do.

So the whole "significant" thing is a red herring..
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Good chance of the next summer olympics including a gold medal for the US in the womens Marathon to Megan Youngren . Won by an American who used to be a man.
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

ludin said:
as usual the left rapid attacks with 0 credibility to refute what was said.
actually i said it in the complete scientific manner supported by actual definitions to words. what you have so far is nothing.
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I am not ‘the left’ as you like to categorise me as, I form my own views thank you, just your silly attempt to undermine the truth. I call out people who lie, manipulate, deny facts and show no respect or maturity regarding a manner. What you said was disrespectful and completely and utterly wrong, if you cannot see that your moral and ethical compass is not correct.

again you have nothing. typical rabid leftist devoid of all reason and logic which is why you fail to address anything i have said. ol i have done a ton of reading on this.
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So you don’t accept that transgender people exist or you don’t accept they experience real hardship? I have made a point regarding the facts you are once again denying facts. Interestingly as you seek to politicize the matter further, because you have nothing more constructive to do, you indicate even more convincingly how you don’t understand this as a social and individual issue. If you have done a tonne of reading on this I would have thought you would be a little more understanding of the situation on hand and discuss the matter not turn it into a political circus as you have done.

my comment was based on reality not leftist looney toon land since you want to make those kind of comments.
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I am not ignoring the science…..the science is clear. I just have a view regarding societal and individual actions and views that should be applied with understanding and acceptance of the science. A view that you don’t agree with. I also don’t believe science should undermine a human being as you are suggesting.

sorry you can call up down right left and black white. it is your opinion to do so. what you don't get to do it is ignore scientific based biology and scientific fact for psuedo-science.
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Your views are more conservative, that is fact. Your views are narrow minded as they focus on the science with no regard for the societal or individualistic issues at hand, that is fact. I am stating facts and you simply cannot accept them.

you talk about maturity but fail at every level of the word with baseless insults and not addressing anything. sorry the woke infants of the world now can't accept fact.
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A man scientifically cannot ever be 100% a woman yes……but they can on an emotional and physical level feel like a woman. This is the very issue science does prove to us and what you do is ignore this part of the science and then undermine the person who may feel this way.

a man can never be a woman. no matter how much surgery or whatever they want to do. it is an insult to real women to say they are. so the question now becomes why are you being demeaning to women?
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Just to confirm you don’t like, support or respect those who are transgender, even if science proves on an emotional and physical level a man can feel like a woman?
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

Lursa said:
I am aware of all that, I appreciate you posting it.

I would like to see it quantified better, over time perhaps, to help enable the solution I keep saying I'm looking for.
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What solution are you looking for?
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

mike2810 said:
Post 228 had a linked article you either ignored or did not read. Let me repost it for you here
"Seems scientist can't agree with what level of testosterone is acceptable in a transgender male. Article pointed out that " emerging findings from the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, which show that testosterone suppression for transgender women has little effect on reducing muscle strength even after a year of treatment. That indicates that at least some of the physical advantages of those who have gone through male puberty are maintained even after transitioning."

You also ignored post 240 where I asked you to :
"Care to share a link to a medical or scientific paper that backs up your statement of "A transgender woman is a real woman."

You have given your opinion and that is all. That opinion is not shared by many who have responded to your posts.
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Just to point out.. the article is talking about high school athletes where in all likelihood.. hormones were used to suppress the effects of puberty..and decrease development of male characteristics.
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

jaeger19 said:
What solution are you looking for?
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Something that enables a more fair playing field.
 
Re: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

jaeger19 said:
Just to point out.. the article is talking about high school athletes where in all likelihood.. hormones were used to suppress the effects of puberty..and decrease development of male characteristics.
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or maybe no drugs were used. Do you have any data to back up your statement. That is are the majority of preteen transsexuals are being treated with drugs to suppress puberty?
 
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