America's economy grew at its weakest pace since Trump took office

Phys251 said:

Not a good sign. But we'll have to wait and see whether it was just a weak quarter or a start of a downward trend.

You are on point about the tariffs and the tax cuts for the ultra-rich. So much winning. :doh

Click to expand...

I'm sure we can expect more giveaways environmentally and financially to keep things going until the election.

Michael Cole said:

Plenty of reason. Just hidden.

Opinion polls don't invalidate hard data. Thought I'd try shock value for a change.

Click to expand...

Hidden is reason is no reason. Its a debate forum. Make an argument. Post your hard data and how it supports your argument that the economy sucks.

jonny5 said:

Hidden is reason is no reason. Its a debate forum. Make an argument. Post your hard data and how it supports your argument that the economy sucks.

Click to expand...

Shock value jonny. Between me and conservative. He should understand. You don't need to.

Conservative said:

We are waiting on the Democrats in the House to get off their asses. Didn't pay any attention to the SOU did you? The 2016 election is over and after last night so is the 2020. Your party is a joke, praying for American failure. The Economy is doing well and the American people know why. You on the other will never change

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

Click to expand...

" we are waiting on the Democrats in the House to get off their asses "
and do what?
they have passed hundreds of bills that have gone over to the Senate and are sitting on McConnell's desk
Looks like McConnell and the Senate should be getting off their asses and doing something
They don't give a dang about the welfare of the American people and running the country all they are interested in right now is protecting Trump
Have a nice day

Conservative said:

My head is firmly up the ass of the private sector proponents as that is the only ideology that works and makes any sense.

Click to expand...

But you don't. You support the corporate sector. This is what your dedication to the GOP translates to. The GOP's go-to "Mom & Pop" mantra is a front for their true goal, which is to protect corporation. Do you think the Mom & Pop small business has access to Senators? Do you think they get the subsidies and tax-cuts like the big corporations do, which in turn run the small business out of town? It's a simple thing to see: with corporations sitting on billions of uninvested dollars during the last recession (not creating jobs), Mom & Pop shops were closing up and handing their business over to the banks, which had received government bail-outs and a GOP push to even further deregulate the institutions that caused the recession in the first place. As I stated to you before, the GOP is no longer a Conservative Party. It is a radical right-wing party that promotes fear and war, expands government, increases spending, encourages government intrusion, denies science, practices political extremism to manipulate, all the while its religious base dove-tails with corporate interests.

Conservative said:

.....spending in the name of compassion and never refute actual results.

Click to expand...

The 1%, increased debt and deficit, and exponential plutocracy has been the result. The government should spend on the people, because it is the people's money. You pay your taxes. Small business struggle and pay their taxes. Know who doesn't? The problem was clear under Bush when GE began paying 0% on its billions in revenue. In fact, corporate America posted record profits amid the most protracted period of joblessness in post-World War II history under Obama. Yet, they "created" no jobs. Under Trump's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, 91 profitable Fortune 500 companies paid $0 in taxes on U.S. income in 2018. This was Trump's goal from the beginning. When you default to "what's wrong with keeping more of your money" you avoid the fact that the little you were temporarily given is nothing next those who make billions, and pay absolutely nothing. In the meantime, the Treasury is selling our economy to China to compensate for this lop-sided economy.

Conservative said:

.... they are entitled to spend it where they see fit not where a bureaucrat sees fit. Bureaucrats spend money to buy votes and that creates debt and dependence.

Click to expand...

The only entity in America that has consistently proven to be dependent on government is big corporation. From 1886's Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, which laid the foundation for corporate personhood, to 2010's Citizen's United, which ruled that corporations could spend unlimited amounts to influence elections, the GOP has moved mountains to codify socialism at the corporate level. Hence, Trump's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was not about you. You were handed peanuts with the understanding that you would pay later, while corporations threw a party for themselves and laughed. In the meantime, Republicans tell you to suck it up and pull up your boot straps.

Conservative said:

How many times do I have to tell you I don't watch Fox News and haven't since my wife died 7 years ago. I do get articles from Fox News but none of the results I posted came from Fox, all from bea.gov, bls.gov and treasury.org.

Click to expand...

It's not the data, it's the perverted FOX News arguments of the data that you push. Again, everybody uses bea.gov, bls.gov and treasury.org. Your data is the same as the rest. But you refrain from presenting the complete data because it denies your partisan argument. The data is clear. Trump inherited this, injected a quick cash grab for the wealthy, and now the economy is settling back to the trend he inherited. For example: Where once you allowed Trump to criticize Obama for his lack of a 3.0% (2.9% just wasn't good enough) while the GOP played obstruction games year after year, now you ignore Trump's lack of a 3.0% as he introduced greater mechanisms to push even more money upward. This is that partisan nonsense that has you skewing the date.

Conservative said:

Why don't you ask your CPA wife where state and local governments get their money since obviously you don't realize the impact of higher taxes on their revenue stream.

Click to expand...

Again, you pay taxes. The corporations, thus the wealthy, do not. The necessity for higher taxes, of which we pay very little, is the result of the GOP increasingly creating a free-ride plutocracy while increasing our spending. You vote against your own economic interests because you are a partisan voter.

Kushinator said:

False... your ignorance of the data shows:

What you meant to say was the deficit for FY2009 was $1.4 trillion. This isn't terribly difficult terminology to understand, so i don't care to hear your excuse as to why you're unable to speak fluently.

Click to expand...

OK, the TOTAL deficit spending was $1.4 trillion, the net increased spending was $600 billion ($2.9 trillion in 2008 -vs- $3.5 in 2009, $3.6 trillion in 2010... and on and upward) So Comparison of federal spending increase of 20% beginning in 2009 did little to spur economic growth. The recovery was the longest in US history even while pumping an extra $600 billion into the economy every year compared to 2008. An extra $600 billion in 2009 paired with an economic contraction. Moreover, the actual GDP growth in any of those years of increased spending yielded, in it's best year, a GDP increase of about $550 billion.. even if we give Government spending 100% of the credit, it is still a net loss of government investment... which only gets worse when you consider all the other sources of economic investment in a given year.

Deficits are not sterilized. They are an additional injection to output. You're just ignorant of the mechanics behind government finance, the private financial sector, and government accounts.

Click to expand...

Well, clearly you are wrong since even in the strong recovery year of 2010 there wasn't even a break even in new government outlays versus economic growth, counting the 2008 budget as the pre-recession baseline.

The fallacy of composition arises. The money comes from a surplus of funds that was not going to be invested in the private sector, which is why private actors chose to park their money in government bonds. If private investors were going to invest the money in other avenues, they wouldn't have purchased bonds to begin with. The terminology you are searching for is called crowding out, which is observable via a spike in spread for borrowing costs between the private and public sectors.

Click to expand...

Again you falsely assume that the money, if not in bonds, would not be in the economy. The money is always in the US economy unless you invest it overseas or stuff in a mattress.

And that goes to show just how serious the downturn was... investors were happy with losing out due to inflation rather than risking excessive loss of capital for a higher return from the private sector.

Click to expand...

The Fed bought a lot of those treasuries as well. I'm not arguing that people don't buy treasuries during a recession, my point is the attempt at government spending as a way out of recession failed miserably, and the myopic nature of federal spending yields poor results versus leaving the money in the hands of the people to begin with.

This is a meaningless statement.

Click to expand...

You may see a "better" ROI on a dollar if you only start counting from the point where the dollar is in the hands of the government, but it ignores that the federal spending pulls money out of the economy to begin with whereas a tax cut does not. Moreover, federal spending is targeted and, as Cash for Clunkers shows as an example, not really the boon to the economy that you seem to think it is.

Just because you say so? :lol:

Like conman, you're out of your league here.

Click to expand...

Well gee, I would have assumed you would understand your own source better than I do... apparently not. :lol:

Kushinator said:

I haven't ignored anything.



The deficit was $984 billion. Nominal GDP growth ($848 billion) fell declined by $212 billion from $1060 billion the year before (2018).

Remember posts like this?



:beat



I'm not ignoring anything. I don't view such things as a negative the way you do, which is why it's good humor watching you defend and support this economy.



:rofl

Again, if you want to start a thread about that, go for it.

Click to expand...

This is a waste of time, nothing is going to change your mind or mine. Couldn't care less of whether it was 836 billion or over a trillion dollars it is created by the right metrics this time. The American people keeping more of what they earn bothers you but not me. Why continue this discussion?

Tbird19482 said:

" we are waiting on the Democrats in the House to get off their asses "
and do what?
they have passed hundreds of bills that have gone over to the Senate and are sitting on McConnell's desk
Looks like McConnell and the Senate should be getting off their asses and doing something
They don't give a dang about the welfare of the American people and running the country all they are interested in right now is protecting Trump
Have a nice day

Click to expand...

What hundreds of bills that would make this country better off than it is right now? It is you that doesn't understand the U.S. economy nor the American people who are sick and tired of the left wing bull**** of politics of personal destruction, class envy, jealousy. Tell us what those bills would have done that Trump hasn't generated?

Conservative said:

2018 20580.2 +1060.8

Click to expand...

If you are looking to use annual data, this is correct. However, you're comparing it to quarterly data. The quarterly value is $20898

2019 21734.3 +1154.1

Click to expand...

If you are looking to use quarterly data, this is correct. However, you are comparing it to annual data. The annual value is $21429

Here is how it should look:



But we can't expect you to post using legible formatting and concise as well as precise data.

you claimed the debt was stimulus so tell us how 39% held by foreigners is stimulus in this country.

Click to expand...

Foreigners hold dollars too! When they exchange their dollars for bonds, the government then takes that money and allocates it. All government spending eventually flows into the private sector.

MSgt said:

But you don't. You support the corporate sector. This is what your dedication to the GOP translates to. The GOP's go-to "Mom & Pop" mantra is a front for their true goal, which is to protect corporation. Do you think the Mom & Pop small business has access to Senators? Do you think they get the subsidies and tax-cuts like the big corporations do, which in turn run the small business out of town? It's a simple thing to see: with corporations sitting on billions of uninvested dollars during the last recession (not creating jobs), Mom & Pop shops were closing up and handing their business over to the banks, which had received government bail-outs and a GOP push to even further deregulate the institutions that caused the recession in the first place. As I stated to you before, the GOP is no longer a Conservative Party. It is a radical right-wing party that promotes fear and war, expands government, increases spending, encourages government intrusion, denies science, practices political extremism to manipulate, all the while its religious base dove-tails with corporate interests.



The 1%, increased debt and deficit, and exponential plutocracy has been the result. The government should spend on the people, because it is the people's money. You pay your taxes. Small business struggle and pay their taxes. Know who doesn't? The problem was clear under Bush when GE began paying 0% on its billions in revenue. In fact, corporate America posted record profits amid the most protracted period of joblessness in post-World War II history under Obama. Yet, they "created" no jobs. Under Trump's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, 91 profitable Fortune 500 companies paid $0 in taxes on U.S. income in 2018. This was Trump's goal from the beginning. When you default to "what's wrong with keeping more of your money" you avoid the fact that the little you were temporarily given is nothing next those who make billions, and pay absolutely nothing. In the meantime, the Treasury is selling our economy to China to compensate for this lop-sided economy.



The only entity in America that has consistently proven to be dependent on government is big corporation. From 1886's Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, which laid the foundation for corporate personhood, to 2010's Citizen's United, which ruled that corporations could spend unlimited amounts to influence elections, the GOP has moved mountains to codify socialism at the corporate level. Hence, Trump's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was not about you. You were handed peanuts with the understanding that you would pay later, while corporations threw a party for themselves and laughed. In the meantime, Republicans tell you to suck it up and pull up your boot straps.



It's not the data, it's the perverted FOX News arguments of the data that you push. Again, everybody uses bea.gov, bls.gov and treasury.org. Your data is the same as the rest. But you refrain from presenting the complete data because it denies your partisan argument. The data is clear. Trump inherited this, injected a quick cash grab for the wealthy, and now the economy is settling back to the trend he inherited. For example: Where once you allowed Trump to criticize Obama for his lack of a 3.0% (2.9% just wasn't good enough) while the GOP played obstruction games year after year, now you ignore Trump's lack of a 3.0% as he introduced greater mechanisms to push even more money upward. This is that partisan nonsense that has you skewing the date.



Again, you pay taxes. The corporations, thus the wealthy, do not. The necessity for higher taxes, of which we pay very little, is the result of the GOP increasingly creating a free-ride plutocracy while increasing our spending. You vote against your own economic interests because you are a partisan voter.

Click to expand...

My point is right on, all you people do is promote class envy, jealousy and politics of personal destruction. You care more about what someone else earns and pays in taxes vs. addressing how federal tax dollars are abused by all that spending IN THE NAME of Compassion without generating compassionate results. Creating dependences isn't compassionate. Why won't you answer the question, where does the state and local governments get their revenue?

You seem to believe that Fox News drives my arguments totally ignoring that my arguments are based upon the official data that is available to you but you refuse to research. You like most liberals are nothing more than partisan liberal hacks promoting a socialist ideology all because of your inability to accept responsibility for poor personal choices you have made. Have a good day

Conservative said:

What hundreds of bills that would make this country better off than it is right now? It is you that doesn't understand the U.S. economy nor the American people who are sick and tired of the left wing bull**** of politics of personal destruction, class envy, jealousy. Tell us what those bills would have done that Trump hasn't generated?

Click to expand...

The majority of bills have provisions that the democrats know will not get through the Senate, McConnell has often said he will not spend time on legislation that has no chance of passing. The democrats did this knowing they wouldn't pass because of what is in the bills and democrats claim every bit of negotiation to compromise is a NONSTARTER!!

Integrityrespec said:

The majority of bills have provisions that the democrats know will not get through the Senate, McConnell has often said he will not spend time on legislation that has no chance of passing. The democrats did this knowing they wouldn't pass because of what is in the bills and democrats claim every bit of negotiation to compromise is a NONSTARTER!!

Click to expand...

I am waiting exactly for what bills the Democrats have proposed that would generate better results than those Trump has generated?

GDP dollar growth

2107 19519.4 +804.4
2018 20580.2 +1060.8
2019 21734.3 +1154.1
Notice the drop from 742.4 to 697.5 to 492.0 then the surge. Trump inherited the 18.7 economy that is now 21.7 trillion in 3 years

Then there is this which Trump inherited and the comparison today. Anyone that claims the GDP growth now is similar to what Obama had is the true hack and totally has no credibility

Unemployment Rate 4.7% January 2017 vs. 3.5% today

Employed 152.2 million January 2017 to 158.8 million today so 6 million job growth from 2008 to 2017(146 million to 152 million) is celebrated but 6.6 million growth I the last two years isn't!! LOL

U-6 in January 2017 9.3% vs 6.7% today? Wow!! 2.6% better U-6 obviously meaningless to you

Part time for economic reasons, 5.7 million January 2017 vs. 4.3 million today? Looks to me that incredible job growth you claim was boosted by part time jobs

African American unemployment 8.0% vs. 5.9% today? That explains the surge in support from African Americans for Trump

jmotivator said:

OK, the TOTAL deficit spending was $1.4 trillion, the net increased spending was $600 billion ($2.9 trillion in 2008 -vs- $3.5 in 2009, $3.6 trillion in 2010... and on and upward) So Comparison of federal spending increase of 20% beginning in 2009 did little to spur economic growth.

Click to expand...

A stronger recovery required spending in excess of the $535 billion in 2009. You're failing to comprehend that without that additional $535 billion in government spending, nGDP would have fallen by more than $535 billion.

The recovery was the longest in US history

Click to expand...

This is false. The recoveries for both the Great and Long Depression's took far longer.

even while pumping an extra $600 billion into the economy every year compared to 2008. An extra $600 billion in 2009 paired with an economic contraction. Moreover, the actual GDP growth in any of those years of increased spending yielded, in it's best year, a GDP increase of about $550 billion.. even if we give Government spending 100% of the credit, it is still a net loss of government investment... which only gets worse when you consider all the other sources of economic investment in a given year.

Click to expand...

Yep... that's typical of a deep recession paired with a global financial crisis (that stemmed from home).

Well, clearly you are wrong since even in the strong recovery year of 2010 there wasn't even a break even in new government outlays versus economic growth, counting the 2008 budget as the pre-recession baseline.

Click to expand...

Total GDP was increased by the level of government spending. You don't know what you're talking about. When the government borrows money from the private sector to meet its obligations, it doesn't come from funds that would have otherwise been GDP.

Again you falsely assume that the money, if not in bonds, would not be in the economy.

Click to expand...

I don't falsely assume anything. If the money would have been in the economy, we wouldn't be in recession. That's the point. :lol:

The money is always in the US economy unless you invest it overseas or stuff in a mattress.

Click to expand...

Being in the economy and being counted as GDP are two totally different concepts.

The Fed bought a lot of those treasuries as well.

Click to expand...

That's right!!! It did so to push private investors into private markets.

I'm not arguing that people don't buy treasuries during a recession, my point is the attempt at government spending as a way out of recession failed miserably, and the myopic nature of federal spending yields poor results versus leaving the money in the hands of the people to begin with.

Click to expand...

Your argument has been rejected.

You may see a "better" ROI on a dollar if you only start counting from the point where the dollar is in the hands of the government, but it ignores that the federal spending pulls money out of the economy to begin with whereas a tax cut does not.

Click to expand...

Federal spending doesn't pull money out of the economy. Jesus, we are talking basics here. Taxation is what pulls money out of the economy. If the Federal government runs a budgetary surplus, that is by definition pulling money out of the economy. Why are you trying to have this discussion with me while not understanding these basic concepts of national income accounting?

Moreover, federal spending is targeted and, as Cash for Clunkers shows as an example, not really the boon to the economy that you seem to think it is.

Click to expand...

The data tells another story.

Integrityrespec said:

The majority of bills have provisions that the democrats know will not get through the Senate, McConnell has often said he will not spend time on legislation that has no chance of passing. The democrats did this knowing they wouldn't pass because of what is in the bills and democrats claim every bit of negotiation to compromise is a NONSTARTER!!

Click to expand...

I agree there maybe some bills that the House passed that the Senate wouldn't , there always is.
but there are a lot of bills that will help the American people in so many ways that the Senate hasn't even looked at

The senate still hasn't passed all the bills required to keep the Gov. running.

My point was Conservative says the House isn't doing anything. and it isn't the House that is sitting on hundreds of bills but the Republican controlled Senate
Have a nice day

You are continuing to lie!

Conservative said:

GDP dollar growth

2107 19519.4 +804.4
2018 20580.2 +1060.8
2019 21734.3 +1154.1

Click to expand...

Here is how it should look:

Kushinator said:

You are continuing to lie!



Here is how it should look:

Year	Nominal GDP	Annual Change	Δ Change
2017	$19520 billion	$804 billion	+$314 billion
2018	$20580 billion	$1060 billion	+$256 billion
2019	$21429 billion	$848 billion	-$212 billion

Click to expand...

LOL, as you continue to ignore that the Trump economy is built on conservative principles and the private sector whereas you propose an economy built on gov't spending and social engineering. Your double standard is on full display, how much of the Obama economy was built on deficits and name for us the year in which Obama GDP growth exceeded Trump's? Keep focusing on percentage change and not dollar growth and keep ignoring the reaction of the American people to that Trump economy

How many polls represented here? The disconnect is yours as you are in the minority AGAIN

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

Conservative said:

What hundreds of bills that would make this country better off than it is right now? It is you that doesn't understand the U.S. economy nor the American people who are sick and tired of the left wing bull**** of politics of personal destruction, class envy, jealousy. Tell us what those bills would have done that Trump hasn't generated?

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure its you who doesn't understand our economy. You are sick and tired of "left-wing" bull ****, because the GOP has spent years and years on a program of manipulation and propaganda to make you this way. You allow yourself to be distracted from what the GOP has been doing since Reagan, by falling for the same old "class warfare, jealousy" crap that works in the wealthy's economic interests. In the meantime, their corrupt system created the 1% for themselves, not you.

While you dismiss the truth as simply a matter of "the left" having class envy, you ignore that it is you who behave as if you are their doberman, protecting their coffers for the slim chance that they may toss you a dime. That is the Trickle-Down con game. It's you with the actual class envy; and you who ignores the fact that the wealthy get wealthier thanks to socialism, not capitalism.

- Bloated government contracts to "defend" America from any enemy imaginable, which provide jobs across the nation
- Legal corporate loop holes that help them avoid taxes all together
- Constant demands for government subsidies to push actual free market competition to the side
- Supreme Court rulings that help them buy Washington
- And constant pushes for wars in order to continually maintain the lucrative revenue of companies who get government contracts

In the meantime, they promote pure capitalism to the little guy who only needs to work harder as bailed-out banks seize his small business and home. Where was that guy's government bail-out as banks nose-dived his credit? You see, you and others are fond of dismissing this as a case where he just wasn't a good business man or home owner. Yet, you are fine with failed banks being thrown government life preservers. Why? Because you were told that they are "too big to fail," while the GOP rages against "socialism" and that the average American is just jealous.

Of course, it is true that some make it big through their hard work and perseverance and some luck. I have a friend in Texas who has done just that. But for every person like my friend, there are thousands who are denied opportunity because the economic system is stacked against them. It's common sense: why would the wealthy want to give you a chance to compete with them? In their world view, there just isn't enough money to spread around as they use Washington to create government mechanisms to help them increase revenue and hoard the nation's wealth. Those who point these truths out aren't jealous of anything. They are merely showing how exponentially damaging this is for the country, just like great economic disparity across Europe helped usher in Fascist and Communist governments, and just like great economic disparity helped lead to numerous failed democracies throughout the twentieth century.

We now live in a country where even our President has declared that he doesn't care about debt as he cuts taxes, increases spending, and the Treasury has to issue ever more bonds to our enemies like China. You run your household like that and see how fast the banks bend you over.

Conservative said:

My point is right on, all you people do is promote class envy, jealousy and politics of personal destruction.

Click to expand...

No wonder the GOP has gotten away with it. The GOP is shamelessly obvious, the DNC is too pathetically weak to address it and are steadily joining the game, and the voters remain clueless. That's the genius of our two-Party system. Completely manipulated. They really don't even need to try anymore do they?

MSgt said:

I'm pretty sure its you who doesn't understand our economy. You are sick and tired of "left-wing" bull ****, because the GOP has spent years and years on a program of manipulation and propaganda to make you this way. You allow yourself to be distracted from what the GOP has been doing since Reagan, by falling for the same old "class warfare, jealousy" crap that works in the wealthy's economic interests. In the meantime, their corrupt system created the 1% for themselves, not you.

While you dismiss the truth as simply a matter of "the left" having class envy, you ignore that it is you who behave as if you are their doberman, protecting their coffers for the slim chance that they may toss you a dime. That is the Trickle-Down con game. It's you with the actual class envy; and you who ignores the fact that the wealthy get wealthier thanks to socialism, not capitalism.

- Bloated government contracts to "defend" America from any enemy imaginable, which provide jobs across the nation
- Legal corporate loop holes that help them avoid taxes all together
- Constant demands for government subsidies to push actual free market competition to the side
- Supreme Court rulings that help them buy Washington
- And constant pushes for wars in order to continually maintain the lucrative revenue of companies who get government contracts

In the meantime, they promote pure capitalism to the little guy who only needs to work harder as bailed-out banks seize his small business and home. Where was that guy's government bail-out as banks nose-dived his credit? You see, you and others are fond of dismissing this as a case where he just wasn't a good business man or home owner. Yet, you are fine with failed banks being thrown government life preservers. Why? Because you were told that they are "too big to fail," while the GOP rages against "socialism" and that the average American is just jealous.

Of course, it is true that some make it big through their hard work and perseverance and some luck. I have a friend in Texas who has done just that. But for every person like my friend, there are thousands who are denied opportunity because the economic system is stacked against them. It's common sense: why would the wealthy want to give you a chance to compete with them? In their world view, there just isn't enough money to spread around as they use Washington to create government mechanisms to help them increase revenue and hoard the nation's wealth. Those who point these truths out aren't jealous of anything. They are merely showing how exponentially damaging this is for the country, just like great economic disparity across Europe helped usher in Fascist and Communist governments, and just like great economic disparity helped lead to numerous failed democracies throughout the twentieth century.

We now live in a country where even our President has declared that he doesn't care about debt as he cuts taxes, increases spending, and the Treasury has to issue ever more bonds to our enemies like China. You run your household like that and see how fast the banks bend you over.

Click to expand...

Reality sucks, doesn't it

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

MSgt said:

No wonder the GOP has gotten away with it. The GOP is shamelessly obvious, the DNC is too pathetically weak to address it and are steadily joining the game, and the voters remain clueless. That's the genius of our two-Party system. Completely manipulated. They really don't even need to try anymore do they?

Click to expand...

Yes, leave it up to people like you to tell Americans what is in their bank accounts and how keeping more of what they earn hurts the country

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

Conservative said:

This is a waste of time, nothing is going to change your mind or mine.

Click to expand...

This isn't a matter of opinion:

Here is how it should look:

Couldn't care less of whether it was 836 billion or over a trillion dollars it is created by the right metrics this time.

Click to expand...

Of course you care, or you wouldn't purposefully be trying to claim it's $1154 billion. :lol:

The American people keeping more of what they earn bothers you but not me.

Click to expand...

This is a stupid statement. Do i need to go on the record to say that i am not bothered by people keeping more of what they earn?

Why continue this discussion?

Click to expand...

Why continue to tell a lie?

Conservative said:

Keep focusing on percentage change and not dollar growth and keep ignoring the reaction of the American people to that Trump economy

Click to expand...

The post you quoted is using nominal GDP data. You should know this.

How many polls represented here? The disconnect is yours as you are in the minority AGAIN

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

Click to expand...

Is that all you have left? A poll? :lamo

I have decimated you to the point where the only thing you can respond with is a poll!

Conservative said:

What hundreds of bills that would make this country better off than it is right now? It is you that doesn't understand the U.S. economy nor the American people who are sick and tired of the left wing bull**** of politics of personal destruction, class envy, jealousy. Tell us what those bills would have done that Trump hasn't generated?

Click to expand...

well do a search like I did and you will find out
now a lot of them are not perfect but you do understand that these bills can go to a Senate committee and changed and then go to a joint committee to work out the differences
Point is that YOU said that we have a do nothing House and that is a lie
The House has been doing their job and the Senate hasn't
have a nice day

Conservative said:

Reality sucks, doesn't it

Click to expand...

No, reality is reality. Americans were quite happy ignoring Bush debt/deficits, and all of the signs that led to the last recession too, thus it is Americans who suck.

Polls like this merely shows just how stupid Americans are to the economy. I remind you, that your kind insisted for years, with the polls in agreement, that Obama was an African Muslim. In fact, two-thirds of you Trump supporters still believed in 2016.

So, the idea that Americans actually understand how the economy works as some "approve" of a President for doing it, is just more of that ignorance. The moment economic growth slows, as it did recently, people like you rush to defend Trump as not to blame. So...He's to be sucked dry for the economy positive trend, but alleviated of responsibility when it slows? Figure it out and stop being such a sheep.

MSgt said:

So, the idea that Americans actually understand how the economy works as they approve of a President for doing it, is just more of that ignorance.

Click to expand...

Amen!