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Trump Tied Ukraine Aid to Inquiries He Sought, Bolton Book Says

W_Heisenberg said:
During previous administrations, the WH and Congress would sort out executive privilege claims on their own without court intervention all the time.

We don't need the courts to solve this problem.

We need a President who doesn't think he is above the law.

We need the Republicans and Trump supporters to wake up and stop putting party over country.

Trump is the problem. Not Schiff. Not the Democrats. Not the media. It's Trump. Trump is the problem.
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Nope. It again appears that Schiff has a problem (beyond being truthful) with affording the president due process. I guess you do too. If Schiff had done the work before and faithfully followed constitutionally defined due process, he wouldn't have the problems he does now. And you would be able to point to something substantial beyond your mere assertion that Trump is the problem.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
It shouldn't take a great deal of time to sort of the executive privilege claims assuming the White House operates in good faith.

But that's one of the big problems, isn't it?

You are making this argument while under the assumption that the WH would not assert executive privilege in good faith. Isn't that right?

Schiff had a good idea about allowing Chief Justice Roberts to rule on executive privilege issues during the Senate trial. The WH lawyers and the Chief Justice are there, in the same room, with the House prosecutors, and all the Senators, so why not let them sort it out then and there?

The truth is, just like Trump, and his lawyers, and most of the Republicans, you are afraid those witnesses will provide testimony that implicates Trump. Isn't that the truth?
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What makes anyone think Roberts can rule on executive privilege? He's not acting as the Supreme Court.
 
ecofarm said:
That's stupid. Trump and his cronies were attempting to obstruct justice by tying subpoenas up in court.
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You mean, like Obama and most other presidents? Executive privilege assertions are frequently resolved in the courts, and using them can't be obstruction of justice since it's the courts who determine Justice. Think harder.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
Trump Tied Ukraine Aid to Inquiries He Sought, Bolton Book Says - The New York Times

Trump Tied Ukraine Aid to Inquiries He Sought, Bolton Book Says



After this revelation, the likelihood that at least some witnesses will be called is now significantly greater.

This, combined with the Parnas revelations, make it significantly more difficult to refute the argument that more witnesses are not necessary.
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Since the Republicans probably won't let Bolton testify, maybe the Democrat should buy a copy of the book and try to enter it into evidence but Moscow Mitch would undoubtedly block that too.
 
redrover said:
Since the Republicans probably won't let Bolton testify, maybe the Democrat should buy a copy of the book and try to enter it into evidence but Moscow Mitch would undoubtedly block that too.
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As he should. Your idea is supremely stupid.
 
Mycroft said:
Paywalls suck.

So tell me...is this..."President Trump told his national security adviser in August that he wanted to continue freezing $391 million in security assistance to Ukraine until officials there helped with investigations into Democrats including the Bidens" an exact quote from the book? Or is it the spinning nonsense someone at NYT **** onto the street?
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Paywalls aren’t the only thing.........
 
Mycroft said:
What makes anyone think Roberts can rule on executive privilege? He's not acting as the Supreme Court.
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I dunno. I've mentioned it, and it looks to me like Schiff thinks leftists are dumb enough to buy into that and repeat it in places like this one.
 
humbolt said:
Prison has nothing to do with it. The House had the opportunity to enforce their subpoenas for witnesses through the courts. They elected not to. The question of executive privilege should resound to the SC for a ruling. Roberts is not the SC. He is only one vote on the court.
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The House never voted on the impeachment inquiry, so Trump couldn't go to the SC for a ruling. So there were no subpoenas to defy.
 
humbolt said:
Nope. It again appears that Schiff has a problem (beyond being truthful) with affording the president due process. I guess you do too. If Schiff had done the work before and faithfully followed constitutionally defined due process, he wouldn't have the problems he does now. And you would be able to point to something substantial beyond your mere assertion that Trump is the problem.
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I disagree that Schiff and the Dems brought this problem on themselves. This was by design. The plan in the House never included subpoenas. The plan was to accuse the Senate Republican leadership of not holding a fair trial, if they don't vote to have witnesses, then agree to all the witnesses Dems SHOULD have had in the House.
If Dems did it right, and followed the rules in place, they risked not getting Trump impeached and removed before November. And since that's is their goal, they changed rules, marginalized the minority and basically ran a goat rodeo to get where we are today.
 
I believe this is the "so what?" phase of the Republican response. Or that Bolton is part of the deep state. Will be interesting to see which way they try to spin this!
 
Acadia said:
I disagree that Schiff and the Dems brought this problem on themselves. This was by design. The plan in the House never included subpoenas. The plan was to accuse the Senate Republican leadership of not holding a fair trial, if they don't vote to have witnesses, then agree to all the witnesses Dems SHOULD have had in the House.
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I don't disagree. I was speaking of the actions in the House - particularly in the intelligence committee. Truthfully, I am only now understanding the full legal implications of that hoax. Those people are even bigger assholes than was originally obvious.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
I believe this is the "so what?" phase of the Republican response. Or that Bolton is part of the deep state. Will be interesting to see which way they try to spin this!
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If only Democrats in the House didn't block taking that impeachment inquiry vote, huh? They could have had the power to compel all your favorite characters, but the power-hungry-at-any-cost Democrats declined that power.
Why do you think that is?
 
humbolt said:
I don't disagree. I was speaking of the actions in the House - particularly in the intelligence committee. Truthfully, I am only now understanding the full legal implications of that hoax. Those people are even bigger assholes than was originally obvious.
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Me too, and yes, huge, gaping ones.
 
Acadia said:
I disagree that Schiff and the Dems brought this problem on themselves. This was by design. The plan in the House never included subpoenas. The plan was to accuse the Senate Republican leadership of not holding a fair trial, if they don't vote to have witnesses, then agree to all the witnesses Dems SHOULD have had in the House.
If Dems did it right, and followed the rules in place, they risked not getting Trump impeached and removed before November. And since that's is their goal, they changed rules, marginalized the minority and basically ran a goat rodeo to get where we are today.
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The facts show that Trump used US foreign policy to pressure a vulnerable country to announce investigations into a political rival for his own personal political benefit. Regardless of what you want to whine about regarding the Democrats, the facts show the wrongdoing to have happened. It seems that you don't care that a President would corrupt the power of his office for his own personal advancement and at the expense of both our allies, our standing on the international stage and our democratic system itself.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
The facts show that Trump used US foreign policy to pressure a vulnerable country to announce investigations into a political rival for his own personal political benefit. Regardless of what you want to whine about regarding the Democrats, the facts show the wrongdoing to have happened. It seems that you don't care that a President would corrupt the power of his office for his own personal advancement and at the expense of both our allies, our standing on the international stage and our democratic system itself.
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You talking about Biden's quid pro quo extortion of Ukraine?
 
Cardinal said:
So how many smoking guns do you suppose Republicans can ignore?
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They have a large capacity to ignore facts and take positions contrary to evidence. They have been well practiced claiming falsehoods for decades, like tax cuts increase revenue.
 
Acadia said:
You talking about Biden's quid pro quo extortion of Ukraine?
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A quid pro quo isn’t wrongdoing per se. It’s only wrongdoing when it’s done for a corrupt purpose. Trump’s QPQ was corrupt. Biden’s was in furtherance of American objectives.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
Trump Tied Ukraine Aid to Inquiries He Sought, Bolton Book Says - The New York Times

Trump Tied Ukraine Aid to Inquiries He Sought, Bolton Book Says



After this revelation, the likelihood that at least some witnesses will be called is now significantly greater.

This, combined with the Parnas revelations, make it significantly more difficult to refute the argument that more witnesses are not necessary.
Click to expand...

No, I don't think that is so. There will be head in sand syndrome, and then the claim that Bolton is just trying to sell books.
 
MTAtech said:
A quid pro quo isn’t wrongdoing per se. It’s only wrongdoing when it’s done for a corrupt purpose. Trump’s QPQ was corrupt. Biden’s was in furtherance of American objectives.
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It still baffles me that Trumpsters don't get the difference.
 
azgreg said:
It still baffles me that Trumpsters don't get the difference.
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“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon him not understanding.” — Upton Sinclair
 
Trump Tied Ukraine Aid to Inquiries He Sought, Bolton Book Says
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next, we'll find out that water is wet.
 
Cardinal said:
Senator Collins: "This seems very grave, but this evidence wasn't included in the House report, so there's nothing I can do! Also, I'd really rather not have my head on a pike, thankyouverymuch."
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Susan Collins is a traitor to this country just as every republican senator that blithely relinquishes the powers endowed upon them by the United States Constitution, to the Executive branch, essentially creating a monarchy and destroying democracy in this country forever.

She's going to lose her reelection next November and she'll go join the senior citizen center in her town in Maniacland and play bingo and go on bus trips to the casino while our country lay in shambles because of what she could not do.
 
MTAtech said:
A quid pro quo isn’t wrongdoing per se. It’s only wrongdoing when it’s done for a corrupt purpose. Trump’s QPQ was corrupt. Biden’s was in furtherance of American objectives.
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I opened a new account in a bank and they gave me a toaster.
I said to the cop who pulled me over for speeding, “I’ll give you a fifty if you forget about the ticket.”
They are both quid pro quos. Only one is criminal.
 
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