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Republicans Block Subpoenas for New Evidence as Impeachment Trial Begins

JacksinPA

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Republicans Block Subpoenas for New Evidence as Impeachment Trial Begins - The New York Times

Republicans made last-minute changes to their proposed rules to placate moderates, but they held together to turn back Democratic efforts to subpoena documents.

WASHINGTON — A divided Senate began the impeachment trial of President Trump on Tuesday in utter acrimony, as Republicans blocked Democrats’ efforts to subpoena witnesses and documents related to Ukraine and moderate Republicans forced last-minute changes to rules that had been tailored to the president’s wishes.

In a series of party-line votes punctuating 12 hours of debate, Senate Republicans turned back every attempt by Democrats to subpoena documents from the White House, State Department and other agencies, as well as testimony from White House officials that could shed light on the core charges against Mr. Trump.
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How can you have a fair trial when the defendant's lawyers won't permit evidence or witness testimony? This makes the Republicans as well as Trump look more like the crooks they really are?
[paywall - I have a NYT account]
 
Republicans Block Subpoenas for New Evidence as Impeachment Trial Begins - The New York Times

Republicans made last-minute changes to their proposed rules to placate moderates, but they held together to turn back Democratic efforts to subpoena documents.

WASHINGTON — A divided Senate began the impeachment trial of President Trump on Tuesday in utter acrimony, as Republicans blocked Democrats’ efforts to subpoena witnesses and documents related to Ukraine and moderate Republicans forced last-minute changes to rules that had been tailored to the president’s wishes.

In a series of party-line votes punctuating 12 hours of debate, Senate Republicans turned back every attempt by Democrats to subpoena documents from the White House, State Department and other agencies, as well as testimony from White House officials that could shed light on the core charges against Mr. Trump.
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How can you have a fair trial when the defendant's lawyers won't permit evidence or witness testimony? This makes the Republicans as well as Trump look more like the crooks they really are?
[paywall - I have a NYT account]

They are, they are absolutely letting the defendant's laywers submit evidence and witness testimony from the House investigation......what's the problem with that?
 
They are, they are absolutely letting the defendant's laywers submit evidence and witness testimony from the House investigation......what's the problem with that?

Not what I heard from Sens. Schumer et al on MSNBC this AM.
 
Not what I heard from Sens. Schumer et al on MSNBC this AM.

OMG, you mean a Politician lied to you?

You should do the research on it, you will see that the Senate is allowing House Dems to present the evidence an witness testimony from the House investigation....but I guess that's not what they want you to believe is it?
 
Republicans Block Subpoenas for New Evidence as Impeachment Trial Begins - The New York Times

Republicans made last-minute changes to their proposed rules to placate moderates, but they held together to turn back Democratic efforts to subpoena documents.

WASHINGTON — A divided Senate began the impeachment trial of President Trump on Tuesday in utter acrimony, as Republicans blocked Democrats’ efforts to subpoena witnesses and documents related to Ukraine and moderate Republicans forced last-minute changes to rules that had been tailored to the president’s wishes.

In a series of party-line votes punctuating 12 hours of debate, Senate Republicans turned back every attempt by Democrats to subpoena documents from the White House, State Department and other agencies, as well as testimony from White House officials that could shed light on the core charges against Mr. Trump.
====================================================================
How can you have a fair trial when the defendant's lawyers won't permit evidence or witness testimony? This makes the Republicans as well as Trump look more like the crooks they really are?
[paywall - I have a NYT account]
H0w can you vote to impeach without that information. If democrats felt that they had a sufficent amount of evidence to impeach, theres no reason to believe they dont have a sufficent amount of evidence to present to the senate.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
How can you have a fair trial when the defendant's lawyers won't permit evidence or witness testimony?
We have all of the evidence and witness testimony that the House viewed as sufficient for impeachment. Are you saying that Trump was impeached unfairly?
 
The time for subpoenas is before a trial, not during it.

What Democrats try to hide is that Schiff DID issue subpoenas and a federal court was going to hear a challenge to them. What did Schiff do? He cancelled the subpoenas just before the federal court hearing.

Now AFTER the trial has started, he wants the Senate to issue subpoenas for which anyone subpoenaed has a due process right to challenge them in federal court.

The ONLY reason for sobbing and ranting about subpoenas is because they know THEY let the clock run out on having them - deliberately.

If they REALLY wanted subpoenas, they would not have cancelled them and would have issued them months ago. Once the trial started it was too late and they know it. They are relying on most people being too stupid about legal process to claim Republicans are blocking subpoenas.

Who blocked subpoenas was Schiff himself. In fact, his accusations are actually against himself.
 
Republicans Block Subpoenas for New Evidence as Impeachment Trial Begins - The New York Times

Republicans made last-minute changes to their proposed rules to placate moderates, but they held together to turn back Democratic efforts to subpoena documents.

WASHINGTON — A divided Senate began the impeachment trial of President Trump on Tuesday in utter acrimony, as Republicans blocked Democrats’ efforts to subpoena witnesses and documents related to Ukraine and moderate Republicans forced last-minute changes to rules that had been tailored to the president’s wishes.

In a series of party-line votes punctuating 12 hours of debate, Senate Republicans turned back every attempt by Democrats to subpoena documents from the White House, State Department and other agencies, as well as testimony from White House officials that could shed light on the core charges against Mr. Trump.
====================================================================
How can you have a fair trial when the defendant's lawyers won't permit evidence or witness testimony? This makes the Republicans as well as Trump look more like the crooks they really are?
[paywall - I have a NYT account]

How can you have a fair trial when the defendent is charged with non-existant crimes?
 
OMG, you mean a Politician lied to you?

You should do the research on it, you will see that the Senate is allowing House Dems to present the evidence an witness testimony from the House investigation....but I guess that's not what they want you to believe is it?

I Googled it and can't find that anywhere, that the Senate is allowing House Dems to present the evidence and witness testimony. Link please? Not saying you made it up, I just can't find it. And does it refute the OP that says "Senate Republicans turned back every attempt by Democrats to subpoena documents from the White House, State Department and other agencies, as well as testimony from White House officials"?
 
The time for subpoenas is before a trial, not during it.

What Democrats try to hide is that Schiff DID issue subpoenas and a federal court was going to hear a challenge to them. What did Schiff do? He cancelled the subpoenas just before the federal court hearing.

Now AFTER the trial has started, he wants the Senate to issue subpoenas for which anyone subpoenaed has a due process right to challenge them in federal court.

The ONLY reason for sobbing and ranting about subpoenas is because they know THEY let the clock run out on having them - deliberately.

If they REALLY wanted subpoenas, they would not have cancelled them and would have issued them months ago. Once the trial started it was too late and they know it. They are relying on most people being too stupid about legal process to claim Republicans are blocking subpoenas.

Who blocked subpoenas was Schiff himself. In fact, his accusations are actually against himself.

The time for subpoenas is before a trial, not during it.

Can you please provide your source for this? Because that is not the case in our legal system. Where did you read that you can't subpoena a witness during a trial?
 
Republicans Block Subpoenas for New Evidence as Impeachment Trial Begins - The New York Times

Republicans made last-minute changes to their proposed rules to placate moderates, but they held together to turn back Democratic efforts to subpoena documents.

WASHINGTON — A divided Senate began the impeachment trial of President Trump on Tuesday in utter acrimony, as Republicans blocked Democrats’ efforts to subpoena witnesses and documents related to Ukraine and moderate Republicans forced last-minute changes to rules that had been tailored to the president’s wishes.

In a series of party-line votes punctuating 12 hours of debate, Senate Republicans turned back every attempt by Democrats to subpoena documents from the White House, State Department and other agencies, as well as testimony from White House officials that could shed light on the core charges against Mr. Trump.
====================================================================
How can you have a fair trial when the defendant's lawyers won't permit evidence or witness testimony? This makes the Republicans as well as Trump look more like the crooks they really are?
[paywall - I have a NYT account]

That's the point...republicans have no intention of having a fair trial.
 
I Googled it and can't find that anywhere, that the Senate is allowing House Dems to present the evidence and witness testimony. Link please? Not saying you made it up, I just can't find it. And does it refute the OP that says "Senate Republicans turned back every attempt by Democrats to subpoena documents from the White House, State Department and other agencies, as well as testimony from White House officials"?

Trump Impeachment Trial | Senate Process | How The Rules Work - POLITICO

This part of it "The evidence vote: Unlike in the Clinton trial, McConnell's procedures don't permit the House to admit any evidence until after opening arguments — and even then it would require a full Senate vote. That raises the prospect of objections from GOP senators anytime the House managers reference material based on evidence that isn't officially in the record."

The official record.....is the house investigation....that's what's being allowed in. The subpoena's the OP is referencing, is the House Manager's last ditch effort to do the job that should have been done in the House.
 
The time for subpoenas is before a trial, not during it.

Can you please provide your source for this? Because that is not the case in our legal system. Where did you read that you can't subpoena a witness during a trial?

A subpoena can be issued, but the person being subpoenaed has the option to contest it - and in this instance that is in federal court. Schiff claimed that somehow the Senate can just erase that absolute right of anyone subpoenaed because there isn't enough time to do so. Once again, Schiff cancelled the subpoena just before a federal court was to hear it.

The US Senate can't erase people's fundamental legal rights - ie erase the Bill Of Rights - because they hate Trump. It isn't just about Trump, it is about the rights of the witness. However, Trump also has a due process right to litigate executive privilege, which a federal court, not the Senate, also would decide.

If Schiff wanted subpoenas, he should have issued them and then stuck with them. It was Schiff himself who argued the clock has run out on litigating subpoenas. He is asking the Senate to erase the Constitution and Bill Of Rights - knowing fully well that is just a bad joke.
 
So the 53 partisans shout la la la in lockstep to NOT see pertinent evidence which could decide the case? How unbiased of them....
 
I Googled it and can't find that anywhere, that the Senate is allowing House Dems to present the evidence and witness testimony. Link please? Not saying you made it up, I just can't find it. And does it refute the OP that says "Senate Republicans turned back every attempt by Democrats to subpoena documents from the White House, State Department and other agencies, as well as testimony from White House officials"?

From the Wall Street Journal:

"Mr. McConnell also said evidence gathered in the House impeachment probe over the fall would be automatically entered into the Senate record, reversing his earlier stance."
 
The time for subpoenas is before a trial, not during it.

What Democrats try to hide is that Schiff DID issue subpoenas and a federal court was going to hear a challenge to them. What did Schiff do? He cancelled the subpoenas just before the federal court hearing.

Now AFTER the trial has started, he wants the Senate to issue subpoenas for which anyone subpoenaed has a due process right to challenge them in federal court.

The ONLY reason for sobbing and ranting about subpoenas is because they know THEY let the clock run out on having them - deliberately.

If they REALLY wanted subpoenas, they would not have cancelled them and would have issued them months ago. Once the trial started it was too late and they know it. They are relying on most people being too stupid about legal process to claim Republicans are blocking subpoenas.

Who blocked subpoenas was Schiff himself. In fact, his accusations are actually against himself.

Supposedly, witnesses can be called at the end of the trial after the 16 hours of questions by the senators. Which is totally backwards from a normal trial.
 
Republicans Block Subpoenas for New Evidence as Impeachment Trial Begins - The New York Times

Republicans made last-minute changes to their proposed rules to placate moderates, but they held together to turn back Democratic efforts to subpoena documents.

WASHINGTON — A divided Senate began the impeachment trial of President Trump on Tuesday in utter acrimony, as Republicans blocked Democrats’ efforts to subpoena witnesses and documents related to Ukraine and moderate Republicans forced last-minute changes to rules that had been tailored to the president’s wishes.

In a series of party-line votes punctuating 12 hours of debate, Senate Republicans turned back every attempt by Democrats to subpoena documents from the White House, State Department and other agencies, as well as testimony from White House officials that could shed light on the core charges against Mr. Trump.
====================================================================
How can you have a fair trial when the defendant's lawyers won't permit evidence or witness testimony? This makes the Republicans as well as Trump look more like the crooks they really are?
[paywall - I have a NYT account]

How can you have a fair hearing when you won't allow the defendants lawyers to cross examine witnesses or call for witness testimony?
This makes Democrats as well as schiff and Pelosi look like the crooks they really are.
 
Supposedly, witnesses can be called at the end of the trial after the 16 hours of questions by the senators. Which is totally backwards from a normal trial.

You realize the entire thing is totally backwards right? The House started off with impeachment, and then went to find a crime to fit it under....that's why it is this way.

They have to prove an ACTUAL case, without hearsay, with ACTUAL evidence, and they don't have that, because they weren't patient enough to let the subpoena process go through the courts.
 

Nonexist crimes. A democratic party who have been trying to impeach for 3 years based on hate and nothing more than falsified records and false claims.
 
Trump Impeachment Trial | Senate Process | How The Rules Work - POLITICO

This part of it "The evidence vote: Unlike in the Clinton trial, McConnell's procedures don't permit the House to admit any evidence until after opening arguments — and even then it would require a full Senate vote. That raises the prospect of objections from GOP senators anytime the House managers reference material based on evidence that isn't officially in the record."

The official record.....is the house investigation....that's what's being allowed in. The subpoena's the OP is referencing, is the House Manager's last ditch effort to do the job that should have been done in the House.

Should have been done...but were blocked by the defendant.
 
From the Wall Street Journal:

"Mr. McConnell also said evidence gathered in the House impeachment probe over the fall would be automatically entered into the Senate record, reversing his earlier stance."

Thanks.

So what about what was in the OP which was about documents from the White House, State Department, etc.?
 
Should have been done...but were blocked by the defendant.

Should have been done, but was challenged by the defendant, and the plaintiff chose to NOT PROCEED.....it wasn't blocked....it was challenged, and the plaintiff had every right to go to court and essentially challenge that challenge, and they CHOSE not to.....

And this is what you end up with.
 
A subpoena can be issued, but the person being subpoenaed has the option to contest it - and in this instance that is in federal court. Schiff claimed that somehow the Senate can just erase that absolute right of anyone subpoenaed because there isn't enough time to do so. Once again, Schiff cancelled the subpoena just before a federal court was to hear it.

The US Senate can't erase people's fundamental legal rights - ie erase the Bill Of Rights - because they hate Trump. It isn't just about Trump, it is about the rights of the witness. However, Trump also has a due process right to litigate executive privilege, which a federal court, not the Senate, also would decide.

If Schiff wanted subpoenas, he should have issued them and then stuck with them. It was Schiff himself who argued the clock has run out on litigating subpoenas. He is asking the Senate to erase the Constitution and Bill Of Rights - knowing fully well that is just a bad joke.

That isn't what I asked you. You said the time for subpoenas is before a trial, not during it. Your first line here contradicts what you said.
 
Democrats ran the House impeachment, anything they did not do, subpoena's witnesses, documents , and going through the courts to get it done is their fault and their failure.
 
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