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Thread: Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power

  1. #111
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    Re: Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    Spare me the theatrics, and idiotic rhetoric. Obama wouldn't SEND the aid because he was afraid to piss off Putin. Trump got lethal aid approved. The money was appropriated for FY2019 which went until October 1, 2019. No breech of oath or anything illegal. Nor is investigating suspicious activity of Americans in Ukraine, even if one of them MIGHT be his opponent in the upcoming election. If there was no dirt to find why worry about it?
    If there WAS dirt to find why was it done in secret? Why were so many measures taken to hide it from as many people as possible? Why did Trump send his personal lawyer if it was not personal business? So many questions and no good answers......
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
    - Voltaire

  2. #112
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    Re: Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power

    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Okay, so we won't hear about why Hillary wasn't locked up?

    You're pretty meaningless to the discussion then.

    Я Баба Яга Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power
    Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

  3. #113
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    Re: Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Dershowitz is lying. He argued that abuse of power was impeachable in 1998.
    He is selling himself out for money and notoriety. No other "scholar" agrees with his wackadoodle jiberish. He sure does like to represent guilty men, that I'll give him.

    It’s going to be difficult, if not impossible, for Dershowitz to reconcile the constitutional argument that he’s about to make with his past work. In his writings about Starr, Dershowitz took a clear position on what constituted valid grounds for impeachment. “What kinds of offenses warrant the extraordinary remedy of legislative removal of a President?” he mused in his 1998 book. “The answer must be an offense that poses a clear and present danger to our body politic—a high public violation of official duty.” The impeachment proceedings against Richard Nixon were proper, Dershowitz argued. “His crimes went to the essence of what an impeachable offense should be: he subverted the Constitution to his own partisan benefit, and in the process endangered the liberties of all Americans.”
    One of Trump’s Lawyers Called the Other Dangerous - POLITICO
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  4. #114
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    Re: Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Okay, so we won't hear about why Hillary wasn't locked up?

    You're pretty meaningless to the discussion then.

    Я Баба Яга Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power
    Continually crying about Hillary isn't really going to help you any.
    Why do they run?
    Because they have no choice son, such is the way of cowards.
    But even a cornered rat, with no choice, will fight.
    Yes my son, and that should tell you more than you need to know about the coward.

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    Re: Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power

    Quote Originally Posted by swing_voter View Post
    Attorney Alan Dershowitz said on Sunday the argument that a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power is a “strong one” that has been successful in the past.

    Dershowitz, who's serving as legal counsel for President Trump's defense team in the Senate impeachment trial, told George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s “This Week” that he is following in the footsteps of Justice Benjamin Curtis who defended President Andrew Johnson. He said Curtis had argued that proof of a crime was necessary for a president to be removed from office.

    “So I am making an argument much like the argument made by the great Justice Curtis,” he said. “And to call them absurdist is to, you know, insult one of the greatest jurists in American history. The argument is a strong one. The Senate should hear it.”

    He said the constitutional framers worried about “giving Congress too much power” to weaponize impeachment on a partisan basis, adding that abuse of power is too “open-ended.”

    Alan Dershowitz: Argument president cannot be impeached for abusing power a 'strong one' | TheHill



    Alan Dershowitz is very left wing. He's defending Trump because he thinks the impeachment charges are 100% partisan and bogus.

    Do you think the impeachment charges are bogus?
    Fact 1: Curtis had already resigned over the Dred Scott case and was the lead council for Johnson's defense. So, let's be clear, Curtis was not a justice on this case.

    Fact 2: Despite his argument in this case, Curtis' notion is not factually correct as detailed notes taken during discussions over including impeachment into the Constitution, as well as journal entries and letters between the Founders and the Framers show that they the offending action need not be criminal in nature but an abuse of power or a demonstrated lack of ability to conduct the office. In fact, a number of those removed from office (judges mostly) were done so on non-criminal charges but charges of being intoxicated and abuses of power that were NOT criminal in nature. In fact the argument that a president has to be charged on criminal charges was so weak that...and here comes the next fact...

    Fact 3: Johnson was acquitted by one vote. That's it. And that one vote has a LOT of controversy as that one voter had received a payment of $150,000 dollars from a slush fund set up by....some of Johnson's supporters...

    Fact 4 - Dershowitz is advocating a theory that a president's powers are so complete that he cannot be impeached. The problem with that theory is that it is at odds with the Constitution and what the Founders have written on the subject themselves. Also, think of it in this manner, if this was Obama pulling that argument to protect himself, are you the right really going to tell me that you would let him? No, you wouldn't. And it goes against the right's idea that executive power should be limited and that state's rights (right of the people as some call it) is supposed to be greater.

    Dershowitz, while very smart, does get it wrong sometimes. And this is one of those times.

  6. #116
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    Re: Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power

    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Continually
    Okay, so you won't tell us why Hillary isn't in prison?

    An everything that has attained nothing.

    Я Баба Яга Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power
    Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me.

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    Re: Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power

    Quote Originally Posted by swing_voter View Post
    Attorney Alan Dershowitz said on Sunday the argument that a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power is a “strong one” that has been successful in the past.

    Dershowitz, who's serving as legal counsel for President Trump's defense team in the Senate impeachment trial, told George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s “This Week” that he is following in the footsteps of Justice Benjamin Curtis who defended President Andrew Johnson. He said Curtis had argued that proof of a crime was necessary for a president to be removed from office.

    “So I am making an argument much like the argument made by the great Justice Curtis,” he said. “And to call them absurdist is to, you know, insult one of the greatest jurists in American history. The argument is a strong one. The Senate should hear it.”

    He said the constitutional framers worried about “giving Congress too much power” to weaponize impeachment on a partisan basis, adding that abuse of power is too “open-ended.”

    Alan Dershowitz: Argument president cannot be impeached for abusing power a 'strong one' | TheHill



    Alan Dershowitz is very left wing. He's defending Trump because he thinks the impeachment charges are 100% partisan and bogus.

    Do you think the impeachment charges are bogus?
    I believe that abuse of power should be the basis of impeachment (any impeachment).
    Having said that, the witnesses Dems presented did not directly observe Trump doing anything that would be grounds for impeachment.
    So, Trumps defense seem to be on wrong track regarding his impeachment - instead of claiming that his actions are not grounds for impeachment they should focus on the witnesses.



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  8. #118
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    Re: Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power

    Quote Originally Posted by Condor060 View Post
    The legal world isn't up in arms because they would know he is defending a legal theory. Its what he has dedicated his life too.

    Liberals being up in arms is no surprise as anyone who speaks a positive word about Trump are immediately branded as cultist.
    Dershowitz is is taking an indefensible position, that a president has to have committed an actual crime. It's indefensible because Office of Legal Council says a sitting president can't be indicted but must first be impeached. But if a president can't be impeached unless there is a crime, it's a Catch 22.

    Moreover, constitutional scholars have already long weighed in on abuse of power being a high crime and misdemeanor. This is described in the Time article:
    But the phrase didn’t have a set definition in British practice; it was used to describe whatever thing the person was being impeached for, according to Bowman. There were several things for which people were impeached during this era: ordinary crimes, treason, corruption, abuse of power, ordinary incompetence and misbehavior in relation to foreign policy. Notably, the King could not be impeached.

    When the framers of the U.S. Constitution realized they needed a way to remove executive officials who abused the nature of their positions, they decided to add a definition for an impeachable offense. Though many suggestions were made at the Constitutional Convention in 1787, by the end of the summer they’d winnowed it down to two examples: treason and bribery.

    But George Mason of Virginia took issue with limiting it to the two definitions, arguing they were too narrow. At the same time the Constitution was being drafted, newspapers were covering the impeachment of a statesman named Warren Hastings for misconduct during his time the Governor General of India. Mason pointed out that under their current definition, Hasting wouldn’t be impeachable. Mason suggest they broaden the definition to include “maladministration,” meaning mismanagement or ineffective governance. James Madison argued back that the word would be too broad, and make it so the President would be serving at the “pleasure of the Senate.” He worried Senators could remove the President if they disliked a policy move.

    George Mason then proposed including the phrase “high crimes and misdemeanors” instead, and that’s the term they settled on.
    "The ship of democracy, which has weathered all storms, may sink through the mutiny of those on board." -- Grover Cleveland

  9. #119
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    Re: Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power

    Quote Originally Posted by swing_voter View Post
    Attorney Alan Dershowitz said on Sunday the argument that a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power is a “strong one” that has been successful in the past.

    Dershowitz, who's serving as legal counsel for President Trump's defense team in the Senate impeachment trial, told George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s “This Week” that he is following in the footsteps of Justice Benjamin Curtis who defended President Andrew Johnson. He said Curtis had argued that proof of a crime was necessary for a president to be removed from office.

    “So I am making an argument much like the argument made by the great Justice Curtis,” he said. “And to call them absurdist is to, you know, insult one of the greatest jurists in American history. The argument is a strong one. The Senate should hear it.”

    He said the constitutional framers worried about “giving Congress too much power” to weaponize impeachment on a partisan basis, adding that abuse of power is too “open-ended.”

    Alan Dershowitz: Argument president cannot be impeached for abusing power a 'strong one' | TheHill



    Alan Dershowitz is very left wing. He's defending Trump because he thinks the impeachment charges are 100% partisan and bogus.

    Do you think the impeachment charges are bogus?
    Dershowitz: Trump shouldn'''t be removed from office even if he is guilty of House charges

    Dershowitz's commentary ran counter to remarks he made in 1998 about President Bill Clinton's impeachment. In an interview with CNN's Larry King that year, Dershowitz said impeachment "certainly doesn't have to be a crime if you have somebody who completely corrupts the office of president and who abuses trust and who poses great danger to our liberty. You don't need a technical crime."
    **** Dershowitz. No reason that anyone should care what he has to say when he makes such incredibly idiotic arguments. Any patriotic american should be offended at the idea that a president can't be removed from office for abusing the power of his office. That's pure dictator type **** right there.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  10. #120
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    Re: Trump lawyer says a president cannot be impeached for abusing his power

    Quote Originally Posted by thedimon View Post
    I believe that abuse of power should be the basis of impeachment (any impeachment).
    Having said that, the witnesses Dems presented did not directly observe Trump doing anything that would be grounds for impeachment.
    So, Trumps defense seem to be on wrong track regarding his impeachment - instead of claiming that his actions are not grounds for impeachment they should focus on the witnesses.
    Trump admitted to what he did on TV. There is no mystery at this point to what Trump did: He illegally withheld aid that Congress had appropriated for Ukraine, for the purpose of pressuring President Zelensky to launch a bogus investigation into Joe Biden, who just happened to be beating Trump in polls. So Trump has done public harm to Ukraine and U.S. interests in an attempt to get private benefit.

    Zelensky was within days of announcing the investigations in a CNN interview, but the whistleblower report and Congress’ resulting curiosity about what was going on caused Trump to release the aid, after which Zelensky cancelled the interview.

    Fact witnesses testimony corroborates these events -- there was no U.S. interest served by withholding aid.
    "The ship of democracy, which has weathered all storms, may sink through the mutiny of those on board." -- Grover Cleveland

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