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Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

MauiMan

MauiMan

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Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold - POLITICO

"A federal judge has put House Democrats’ suit for Donald Trump’s tax returns on hold until a separate legal fight over congressional oversight central to the president's impeachment gets worked out."

"Democrats have urged the appeals court to rule quickly in a bid to determine whether the former Trump aide has evidence that could be folded into their presentation at the upcoming Senate trial that will determine whether the president should be removed from office or to assist them in drafting additional articles of impeachment."

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Let’s see Trump’s tax returns! Many questions will be answered!!!!
 
Yes, questions like how much more than his democrat counterparts did her pay for repeated consecutive years.
 
It's still unbelievable to me that the democrats are obsessing over Trump's taxes. The only thing they will show is how much he made in a specific year -- and, when it comes to the taxes of a wealthy person -- sometimes it doesn't even accurately reflect that due to the number of tax laws that their accountants use to shift money from one place to another.

When (if) they are released, they will not show what companies or countries he did business with -- none of that is on an income tax return.

Just the idea that the democrats have gone after his taxes tells me -- they -- not Trump are the ones who are a risk to this nation. If they get their way on this one, it will set a precedent for anyone's taxes to be requested by an employer, etc. Bad and stupid move, democrats. But, totally predictable for your shortsighted party.
 
MauiMan said:
Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold - POLITICO

"A federal judge has put House Democrats’ suit for Donald Trump’s tax returns on hold until a separate legal fight over congressional oversight central to the president's impeachment gets worked out."

"Democrats have urged the appeals court to rule quickly in a bid to determine whether the former Trump aide has evidence that could be folded into their presentation at the upcoming Senate trial that will determine whether the president should be removed from office or to assist them in drafting additional articles of impeachment."

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Let’s see Trump’s tax returns! Many questions will be answered!!!!
Click to expand...
What are the questions they will answer?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Piglet said:
Just the idea that the democrats have gone after his taxes tells me -- they -- not Trump are the ones who are a risk to this nation. If they get their way on this one, it will set a precedent for anyone's taxes to be requested by an employer, etc. Bad and stupid move, democrats. But, totally predictable for your shortsighted party.
Click to expand...

How the heck does this suddenly set a precedent for employers to get tax returns? Are you equating congress with a typical employer?
 
BlueTex said:
How the heck does this suddenly set a precedent for employers to get tax returns? Are you equating congress with a typical employer?
Click to expand...

The actual question is...WHY the heck does anyone need to see his (or anyone else's) tax returns? Unless (per law) the IRS is doing an audit, then IMHO EVERYONE's tax information should remain confidential.

Seems to me this is just another witch-hunting attempt seeking to find dirt, ANY dirt to "get Trump."

Another one of those "if he has nothing to hide, then he should be willing to show us all" arguments against a persons basic right to privacy.
 
Captain Adverse said:
The actual question is...WHY the heck does anyone need to see his (or anyone else's) tax returns? Unless (per law) the IRS is doing an audit, then IMHO EVERYONE's tax information should remain confidential.

Seems to me this is just another witch-hunting attempt seeking to find dirt, ANY dirt to "get Trump."

Another one of those "if he has nothing to hide, then he should be willing to show us all" arguments against a persons basic right to privacy.
Click to expand...

Simplistic approach with multiple failure points...

What about prosecutors?

State child support enforcement agencies?

Executors of estates?

There is a whole, well thought out section of federal law that covers this...

26 U.S. Code SS 6103 - Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

Why did congress give the Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation unrestricted access to ALL tax returns?
 
Captain Adverse said:
The actual question is...WHY the heck does anyone need to see his (or anyone else's) tax returns? Unless (per law) the IRS is doing an audit, then IMHO EVERYONE's tax information should remain confidential.

Seems to me this is just another witch-hunting attempt seeking to find dirt, ANY dirt to "get Trump."

Another one of those "if he has nothing to hide, then he should be willing to show us all" arguments against a persons basic right to privacy.
Click to expand...

During the Michael Cohen testimony, Cohen stated that Trump routinely commits tax fraud by overestimating assets' value when asking for loans and underestimating them for tax purposes. Seeing his taxes will make this clear.

If releasing the tax records wasn't going to be damning, he would have released them, as he promised multiple times.
 
Mafia guys never want the Feds snooping around in their money.
 
Let's see those returns.
 
BlueTex said:
...
There is a whole, well thought out section of federal law that covers this...

26 U.S. Code SS 6103 - Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

Why did congress give the Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation unrestricted access to ALL tax returns?
Click to expand...
You can research that as to by they passed the law in the 1920s. It had to do with investigating the Teapot Dome scandal and Congress' inability to investigate taxes of those concerned, which would have revealed payments.
 
MTAtech said:
You can research that as to by they passed the law in the 1920s. It had to do with investigating the Teapot Dome scandal and Congress' inability to investigate taxes of those concerned, which would have revealed payments.
Click to expand...

I was actually referring to the Tax Reform of Act of 1976 which added the language allowing the Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation unrestricted access to ALL tax returns. This was in lieu of Nixon's, mostly forgotten, tax struggles which started the tradition of presidents releasing their tax returns.

Text of H.R. 10612 (94th): Tax Reform Act (Passed Congress version) - GovTrack.us


It's kind of ironic how many issues Trump has faced are so similar to the issues Nixon faced... tax returns, impoundment, abuse of power...
 
BlueTex said:
Simplistic approach with multiple failure points...

What about prosecutors?

State child support enforcement agencies?

Executors of estates?

There is a whole, well thought out section of federal law that covers this...

26 U.S. Code SS 6103 - Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

Why did congress give the Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation unrestricted access to ALL tax returns?
Click to expand...

Not for simple nosiness hopefully.

Rather to address people's actions in income tax evasion when an issue is reasonably suspected. Hence the power to audit.

Now if there is any evidence of Trump's efforts at illegal income tax evasion, then audits and congressional review are warranted.

But IMHO you shouldn't do investigations seeking to harass someone. Nor in a desire to reveal information simply because "inquiring minds want to know."

Recall, the issue comes up because in the past few decades Presidential candidates have voluntarily revealed this information. Now people think they are entitled to it.
 
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MTAtech said:
During the Michael Cohen testimony, Cohen stated that Trump routinely commits tax fraud by overestimating assets' value when asking for loans and underestimating them for tax purposes. Seeing his taxes will make this clear.
Click to expand...


Again, if this is an issue, Tax law has an agency whose JOB is to ferret this out. It's called the IRS, and tax auditing.

Are you alleging that Congress-critters are more capable of finding malfeasance in tax reporting than the agency they created?

MTAtech said:
...If releasing the tax records wasn't going to be damning, he would have released them, as he promised multiple times.
Click to expand...

Aha! I see it is more your desire that Congress have the ability to make a big scene. So they can throw out opinions and presumptions in hopes that enough dirt will stick that your hated "orange man" will get his comeuppance.
 
There's only one reason why any president or presidential candidate doesn't want their tax returns revealed, it's because there's something in them that would tarnish their reputation and affect their election to public office.

Case in point, Michael Bloomberg. He's worth more than 52.4 billion dollars, while Trump's net worth is around 3 billion. Michael Bloomberg has already stated that he will release his tax returns if he's the democratic nomination.

The thing that enrages ethics watchdogs regarding Trump's refusal to turn over his tax returns is that it looks suspicious and makes him look like he's hiding something. People that have nothing to hide are willing to be transparent. Someone with something to hide will fight tooth and nail and appeal to every court possible to shield that disclosure. Michael Bloomberg states that he will adhere to the precedent, dating back to 1974, of presidential contenders disclosing their returns.
 
BlueTex said:
I was actually referring to the Tax Reform of Act of 1976 which added the language allowing the Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation unrestricted access to ALL tax returns. This was in lieu of Nixon's, mostly forgotten, tax struggles which started the tradition of presidents releasing their tax returns.

Text of H.R. 10612 (94th): Tax Reform Act (Passed Congress version) - GovTrack.us


It's kind of ironic how many issues Trump has faced are so similar to the issues Nixon faced... tax returns, impoundment, abuse of power...
Click to expand...

Who could have imagined a crook like Nixon being similar to a NY real estate developer with a long history of shady and sleazy activities?
 
BlueTex said:
How the heck does this suddenly set a precedent for employers to get tax returns? Are you equating congress with a typical employer?
Click to expand...

It's a Pandora's Box. Once it's open, it will backfire on those who opened it.
 
Piglet said:
It's a Pandora's Box. Once it's open, it will backfire on those who opened it.
Click to expand...
That train has long left the station. The Congress has had the right to review any taxpayer's federal return for about 100 years. I don't recall any backfire. Contrarily, it's been used effective and judiciously.
 
MTAtech said:
That train has long left the station. The Congress has had the right to review any taxpayer's federal return for about 100 years. I don't recall any backfire. Contrarily, it's been used effective and judiciously.
Click to expand...

What do you think can be gleaned from Trump's returns that would be of interest?
 
HumblePi said:
There's only one reason why any president or presidential candidate doesn't want their tax returns revealed, it's because there's something in them that would tarnish their reputation and affect their election to public office.

Case in point, Michael Bloomberg. He's worth more than 52.4 billion dollars, while Trump's net worth is around 3 billion. Michael Bloomberg has already stated that he will release his tax returns if he's the democratic nomination.

The thing that enrages ethics watchdogs regarding Trump's refusal to turn over his tax returns is that it looks suspicious and makes him look like he's hiding something. People that have nothing to hide are willing to be transparent. Someone with something to hide will fight tooth and nail and appeal to every court possible to shield that disclosure. Michael Bloomberg states that he will adhere to the precedent, dating back to 1974, of presidential contenders disclosing their returns.
Click to expand...

Really? Then why does the law make tax returns confidential in the first place?

Is it possible one reason might be that so many Americans who use the long forms to itemize typically "fudge" them seeking to retain and regain as much money as possible around tax time? Now me, personally, I have always used the short form taking the standard deduction.

However, many of my friends and family use the long forms, seeking to figure out any and every way to pay as little as possible and get the largest refund possible. The use of "creative deductions" is amazing.

The rich have the assets to hire accountants, whose job is to ferret out any and every possible loophole and deduction, with the cost/benefit of paying their salaries/fees subsumed by the larger tax returns.

Now if you think Trump hasn't been audited within an inch of his life by the IRS as well as State tax agencies more times that you can shake a stick at over the years, then you have another "think" coming.

IMO Trump simply doesn't want Joe Citizen to see all of his ups and downs, financial wins and losses, that have occurred over the years. Or the fact that he is a billionaire "on paper" due to the real estate assets he holds, but does not want to reveal the issues with his debt ledger and fluid assets. Knowing that the MSM and anti-Trumpers would love more mud to throw.

But that's just me. :shrug:
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Really? Then why does the law make tax returns confidential in the first place?

Is it possible because so many Americans who use the long forms to itemize typically "fudge" them seeking to retain and regain as much money as possible around tax time? Now me, personally, I have always used the short form taking the standard deduction.

However, many of my friends and family use the long forms, seeking to figure out any and every way to pay as little as possible and get the largest refund possible. The use of "creative deductions" is amazing.

The rich have the assets to hire accountants, whose job is to ferret out any and every possible loophole and deduction, with the cost/benefit of paying their salaries/fees subsumed by the larger tax returns.

Now if you think Trump hasn't been audited within an inch of his life by the IRS as well as State tax agencies more times that you can shake a stick at over the years, then you have another "think" coming.

IMO Trump simply doesn't want Joe Citizen to see all of his ups and downs, financial wins and losses, that have occurred over the years. Or the fact that he is a billionaire "on paper" due to the real estate assets he holds, but does not want to reveal the issues with his debt ledger and fluid assets.

But that's just me. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Clearly it's a voluntary disclosure.
 
Piglet said:
What do you think can be gleaned from Trump's returns that would be of interest?
Click to expand...
Already answered here.

In the words of Nixon, "the American people have a right to know whether their president is a crook."
 
Captain Adverse said:
Recall, the issue comes up because in the past few decades Presidential candidates have voluntarily revealed this information. Now people think they are entitled to it.
Click to expand...

Read the statute and make an argument that those committees are not entitled to his tax returns.
 
Piglet said:
It's a Pandora's Box. Once it's open, it will backfire on those who opened it.
Click to expand...

It's been "open" for almost 50 years... Why is Trump some kind of exception?
 
Captain Adverse said:
Really? Then why does the law make tax returns confidential in the first place?

Is it possible because so many Americans who use the long forms to itemize typically "fudge" them seeking to retain and regain as much money as possible around tax time? Now me, personally, I have always used the short form taking the standard deduction.

However, many of my friends and family use the long forms, seeking to figure out any and every way to pay as little as possible and get the largest refund possible. The use of "creative deductions" is amazing.

The rich have the assets to hire accountants, whose job is to ferret out any and every possible loophole and deduction, with the cost/benefit of paying their salaries/fees subsumed by the larger tax returns.

Now if you think Trump hasn't been audited within an inch of his life by the IRS as well as State tax agencies more times that you can shake a stick at over the years, then you have another "think" coming.

IMO Trump simply doesn't want Joe Citizen to see all of his ups and downs, financial wins and losses, that have occurred over the years. Or the fact that he is a billionaire "on paper" due to the real estate assets he holds, but does not want to reveal the issues with his debt ledger and fluid assets.

But that's just me. :shrug:
Click to expand...

One has no legal obligation to pay more taxes than due. If using legal deductions can lower one's taxes, fine. That's not the same as over-estimating losses that didn't happen or under-estimating revenue that did happen.
 
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