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Thread: Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

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    Re: Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTex View Post
    ...
    There is a whole, well thought out section of federal law that covers this...

    26 U.S. Code SS 6103 - Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

    Why did congress give the Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation unrestricted access to ALL tax returns?
    You can research that as to by they passed the law in the 1920s. It had to do with investigating the Teapot Dome scandal and Congress' inability to investigate taxes of those concerned, which would have revealed payments.
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    Re: Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    You can research that as to by they passed the law in the 1920s. It had to do with investigating the Teapot Dome scandal and Congress' inability to investigate taxes of those concerned, which would have revealed payments.
    I was actually referring to the Tax Reform of Act of 1976 which added the language allowing the Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation unrestricted access to ALL tax returns. This was in lieu of Nixon's, mostly forgotten, tax struggles which started the tradition of presidents releasing their tax returns.

    Text of H.R. 10612 (94th): Tax Reform Act (Passed Congress version) - GovTrack.us


    It's kind of ironic how many issues Trump has faced are so similar to the issues Nixon faced... tax returns, impoundment, abuse of power...

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    Re: Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTex View Post
    Simplistic approach with multiple failure points...

    What about prosecutors?

    State child support enforcement agencies?

    Executors of estates?

    There is a whole, well thought out section of federal law that covers this...

    26 U.S. Code SS 6103 - Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

    Why did congress give the Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation unrestricted access to ALL tax returns?
    Not for simple nosiness hopefully.

    Rather to address people's actions in income tax evasion when an issue is reasonably suspected. Hence the power to audit.

    Now if there is any evidence of Trump's efforts at illegal income tax evasion, then audits and congressional review are warranted.

    But IMHO you shouldn't do investigations seeking to harass someone. Nor in a desire to reveal information simply because "inquiring minds want to know."

    Recall, the issue comes up because in the past few decades Presidential candidates have voluntarily revealed this information. Now people think they are entitled to it.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 01-17-20 at 09:01 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    During the Michael Cohen testimony, Cohen stated that Trump routinely commits tax fraud by overestimating assets' value when asking for loans and underestimating them for tax purposes. Seeing his taxes will make this clear.

    Again, if this is an issue, Tax law has an agency whose JOB is to ferret this out. It's called the IRS, and tax auditing.

    Are you alleging that Congress-critters are more capable of finding malfeasance in tax reporting than the agency they created?

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    ...If releasing the tax records wasn't going to be damning, he would have released them, as he promised multiple times.
    Aha! I see it is more your desire that Congress have the ability to make a big scene. So they can throw out opinions and presumptions in hopes that enough dirt will stick that your hated "orange man" will get his comeuppance.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

    There's only one reason why any president or presidential candidate doesn't want their tax returns revealed, it's because there's something in them that would tarnish their reputation and affect their election to public office.

    Case in point, Michael Bloomberg. He's worth more than 52.4 billion dollars, while Trump's net worth is around 3 billion. Michael Bloomberg has already stated that he will release his tax returns if he's the democratic nomination.

    The thing that enrages ethics watchdogs regarding Trump's refusal to turn over his tax returns is that it looks suspicious and makes him look like he's hiding something. People that have nothing to hide are willing to be transparent. Someone with something to hide will fight tooth and nail and appeal to every court possible to shield that disclosure. Michael Bloomberg states that he will adhere to the precedent, dating back to 1974, of presidential contenders disclosing their returns.







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    Re: Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTex View Post
    I was actually referring to the Tax Reform of Act of 1976 which added the language allowing the Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation unrestricted access to ALL tax returns. This was in lieu of Nixon's, mostly forgotten, tax struggles which started the tradition of presidents releasing their tax returns.

    Text of H.R. 10612 (94th): Tax Reform Act (Passed Congress version) - GovTrack.us


    It's kind of ironic how many issues Trump has faced are so similar to the issues Nixon faced... tax returns, impoundment, abuse of power...
    Who could have imagined a crook like Nixon being similar to a NY real estate developer with a long history of shady and sleazy activities?
    "The ship of democracy, which has weathered all storms, may sink through the mutiny of those on board." -- Grover Cleveland

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    Re: Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTex View Post
    How the heck does this suddenly set a precedent for employers to get tax returns? Are you equating congress with a typical employer?
    It's a Pandora's Box. Once it's open, it will backfire on those who opened it.

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    Re: Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

    Quote Originally Posted by Piglet View Post
    It's a Pandora's Box. Once it's open, it will backfire on those who opened it.
    That train has long left the station. The Congress has had the right to review any taxpayer's federal return for about 100 years. I don't recall any backfire. Contrarily, it's been used effective and judiciously.
    "The ship of democracy, which has weathered all storms, may sink through the mutiny of those on board." -- Grover Cleveland

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    Re: Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    That train has long left the station. The Congress has had the right to review any taxpayer's federal return for about 100 years. I don't recall any backfire. Contrarily, it's been used effective and judiciously.
    What do you think can be gleaned from Trump's returns that would be of interest?

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    Re: Judge puts Democrats' suit for Trump's tax returns on hold

    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    There's only one reason why any president or presidential candidate doesn't want their tax returns revealed, it's because there's something in them that would tarnish their reputation and affect their election to public office.

    Case in point, Michael Bloomberg. He's worth more than 52.4 billion dollars, while Trump's net worth is around 3 billion. Michael Bloomberg has already stated that he will release his tax returns if he's the democratic nomination.

    The thing that enrages ethics watchdogs regarding Trump's refusal to turn over his tax returns is that it looks suspicious and makes him look like he's hiding something. People that have nothing to hide are willing to be transparent. Someone with something to hide will fight tooth and nail and appeal to every court possible to shield that disclosure. Michael Bloomberg states that he will adhere to the precedent, dating back to 1974, of presidential contenders disclosing their returns.
    Really? Then why does the law make tax returns confidential in the first place?

    Is it possible one reason might be that so many Americans who use the long forms to itemize typically "fudge" them seeking to retain and regain as much money as possible around tax time? Now me, personally, I have always used the short form taking the standard deduction.

    However, many of my friends and family use the long forms, seeking to figure out any and every way to pay as little as possible and get the largest refund possible. The use of "creative deductions" is amazing.

    The rich have the assets to hire accountants, whose job is to ferret out any and every possible loophole and deduction, with the cost/benefit of paying their salaries/fees subsumed by the larger tax returns.

    Now if you think Trump hasn't been audited within an inch of his life by the IRS as well as State tax agencies more times that you can shake a stick at over the years, then you have another "think" coming.

    IMO Trump simply doesn't want Joe Citizen to see all of his ups and downs, financial wins and losses, that have occurred over the years. Or the fact that he is a billionaire "on paper" due to the real estate assets he holds, but does not want to reveal the issues with his debt ledger and fluid assets. Knowing that the MSM and anti-Trumpers would love more mud to throw.

    But that's just me.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 01-17-20 at 09:47 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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