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Ukraine opens criminal probe into possible surveillance of ex-US ambassador

Chomsky said:
Unless one of our three-letter-agencies opens a case, we may never know.
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Well, the current Ukrainian government may, or may not, desire to answer that question when they open the Parnas - Hyde investigation.
 
maxparrish said:
Well, the current Ukrainian government may, or may not, desire to answer that question when they open the Parnas - Hyde investigation.
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Yeah, but pardon my cynicism in that we'll then get Ukraine's take on it, which is why we may never really know. Ukraine may tell us the truth, or not.

Crazy that we're reduced to depending on foreign governments to give us the truth on our President's and his associates' actions.
 
Chomsky said:
Yeah, but pardon my cynicism in that we'll then get Ukraine's take on it, which is why we may never really know. Ukraine may tell us the truth, or not.

Crazy that we're reduced to depending on foreign governments to give us the truth on our President's and his associates' actions.
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I don't blame you for skepticism, but I think Zelensky and the Ukrainians want to rid themselves of Trump as quickly as possible. Zelensky does not want another 4 years of Trump.

As with everything else in this melodrama, the irony is piercing. If I'm correct in my assumption, that would mean Zelensky is actively interfering in our elections. Not by electronic espionage nor conspiratorial social media, but by an investigation intended to expose corruption. A perfectly legal and legitimate investigation, that could be 99% tactical and 1% legal. And Trump can't say a thing about it.
 
bearpoker said:
Thanks for clearing up my misconception.:mrgreen:
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It was funny....but I couldn't in all conscience let you go on thinking that. lol
 
Michael Cole said:
I don't blame you for skepticism, but I think Zelensky and the Ukrainians want to rid themselves of Trump as quickly as possible. Zelensky does not want another 4 years of Trump.

As with everything else in this melodrama, the irony is piercing. If I'm correct in my assumption, that would mean Zelensky is actively interfering in our elections. Not by electronic espionage nor conspiratorial social media, but by an investigation intended to expose corruption. A perfectly legal and legitimate investigation, that could be 99% tactical and 1% legal. And Trump can't say a thing about it.
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Under the Vienna Convention such and such....Ukraine can legally investigate the spying on the US ambassador since they were responsible for her safety. But it's also great tactical move on their part. Funny, how it coincided with the GAO report.
 
Michael Cole said:
I don't blame you for skepticism, but I think Zelensky and the Ukrainians want to rid themselves of Trump as quickly as possible. Zelensky does not want another 4 years of Trump.

As with everything else in this melodrama, the irony is piercing. If I'm correct in my assumption, that would mean Zelensky is actively interfering in our elections. Not by electronic espionage nor conspiratorial social media, but by an investigation intended to expose corruption. A perfectly legal and legitimate investigation, that could be 99% tactical and 1% legal. And Trump can't say a thing about it.
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Alright, good point there I think. And yeah, Zelensky does want Trump gone post haste! Agreed.
 
Chomsky said:
Source: (CNN) Ukraine opens criminal probe into possible surveillance of ex-US ambassador

Can Trump's attempts to have an investigation into his political opponent announced by the Ukrainians, have backfired any worse? In response to Trump's effort to get Ukraine to announce an investigation into his political opponent, today Ukraine announced an investigation into Trump's attorney who delivered the request!

What an amazing turn.

They key words in the Ukraine statement (the final sentence in my quote), seems to be "illegal activities". Illegal, in terms of the Vienna Convention of which the U.S. is a signatory.

It looks possible that if the U.S. Congress fails to find Trump having acted illegally, Ukraine might. Which wouldn't be saying much for us as a nation.

Regardless, the President looks like he has finally succeeded in getting a Ukraine investigation!
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Ukraine, arguably one of the most corrupt countries on the planet, has to open an investigation related to American corruption. How can it get any worse? What will it take to remove this corrupt President?
 
Michael Cole said:
I don't blame you for skepticism, but I think Zelensky and the Ukrainians want to rid themselves of Trump as quickly as possible. Zelensky does not want another 4 years of Trump.

As with everything else in this melodrama, the irony is piercing. If I'm correct in my assumption, that would mean Zelensky is actively interfering in our elections. Not by electronic espionage nor conspiratorial social media, but by an investigation intended to expose corruption. A perfectly legal and legitimate investigation, that could be 99% tactical and 1% legal. And Trump can't say a thing about it.
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Trump will be mad as hell and there is no telling what he may do. The tables have turned on him though, Mitch has him by the balls. One word from him and he is toast.
 
MauiMan said:
Ukraine, arguably one of the most corrupt countries on the planet, has to open an investigation related to American corruption. How can it get any worse? What will it take to remove this corrupt President?
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Actually that is another of Trumps big lies. Ukraine has cleaned up it's act a good deal and is like 44 on the most corrupt list now. It is ironic that the height of Ukraine's corruption came when Manaforts benefactor was in power. He has quite a resume of helping elect corrupt leaders and that explains why Trump hired him...:lol:

As Trump Impeachment Hearings Begin, Don’t Believe His Administration’s Lies About Ukrainian Corruption
 
Moot said:
Under the Vienna Convention such and such....Ukraine can legally investigate the spying on the US ambassador since they were responsible for her safety. But it's also great tactical move on their part. Funny, how it coincided with the GAO report.
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And the Parnas interview, Hyde's FBI visits, the senate trial, release of FOIA documents, what did I miss?
 
Michael Cole said:
And the Parnas interview, Hyde's FBI visits, the senate trial, release of FOIA documents, what did I miss?
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That sure is an avalanche of evidence coming in all at once. Do you think it's just a coincidence...or did Pelosi plan it that way?

I think McGahn's grand jury testimony might get released soon, too.
 
Moot said:
That sure is an avalanche of evidence coming in all at once. Do you think it's just a coincidence...or did Pelosi plan it that way?

I think McGahn's grand jury testimony might get released soon, too.
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My first instinct is to say it can't be a coincidence, but with the sheer breadth of corruption being uncovered, we should expect a daily barrage of reports. It has been a media bonanza since the whistleblower report became public. Lots going on at a dizzying pace.

Pelosi is the actual genius here, and she's been negotiating every twist and turn with pinpoint accuracy. Unlike the president, she knows the difference between a plan and a goal, and while the goal seems still out of reach, she has implemented the plan with astonishing results.
 
Michael Cole said:
My first instinct is to say it can't be a coincidence, but with the sheer breadth of corruption being uncovered, we should expect a daily barrage of reports. It has been a media bonanza since the whistleblower report became public. Lots going on at a dizzying pace.

Pelosi is the actual genius here, and she's been negotiating every twist and turn with pinpoint accuracy. Unlike the president, she knows the difference between a plan and a goal, and while the goal seems still out of reach, she has implemented the plan with astonishing results.
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And that she does...and has. Now I can't wait to see the movie. :mrgreen:

I kinda hope justice will be lenient with Parnas for coming forth like he has. His friend Igor is awful quiet...maybe he's still hoping for a pardon.
 
James972 said:
she was probably not watched and if she was it probably was not illegal.
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Hyde does come across as a blowhard who would pretend he was a double-nought spy, kinda like Manafort and all of his 007 passwords.
Idk Hyde from Adam, but he just comes across that way in the little I've seen of him.
I can see him making the staticky radio noises in his head.
"Chhchh. The chickadee is leaving the nest. Repeat she is leaving the embassy. Over. Chhchhh."


I'm more unsure about Ukrainian laws and laws regarding diplomatic personnel than you.
Ime, laws can be weird.
Especially foreign laws.

I feel unable to assess the likelihood personally.
Your confidence in your own opinion is noted, though.
gj
 
iguanaman said:
Except Biden was doing it openly with the blessings of the IMF, Europe and our own State Dept. For some strange reason Trump had his personal attorney and his thugs do the "anti-corruption" and told no one about it, in fact he went to great lengths to hide it. It makes you wonder why it had to be hidden unlike when Biden got the corrupt prosecutor fired and he made a big deal of it on video. It seems to me that only one of them was fighting corruption and it wasn't Trump.
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Exactly. Nothing is clearer. As if Trump cared about corruption, LOL. He sees corruption as a business opportunity. Like Lev Parnas said, this was never about corruption. The idiotic Trumpers say Biden was also involved in quid-pro-quo; true, but the non-criminal kind, implementing Obama's policies, and not for personal gain (by the way, the Burisma corruption probe happened two years before Hunter Biden joined the company so Biden's anticorruption actions against that prosecutor had absolutely nothing to do with his son),
 
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Chomsky said:
Source: (CNN) Ukraine opens criminal probe into possible surveillance of ex-US ambassador

Can Trump's attempts to have an investigation into his political opponent announced by the Ukrainians, have backfired any worse? In response to Trump's effort to get Ukraine to announce an investigation into his political opponent, today Ukraine announced an investigation into Trump's attorney who delivered the request!

What an amazing turn.

They key words in the Ukraine statement (the final sentence in my quote), seems to be "illegal activities". Illegal, in terms of the Vienna Convention of which the U.S. is a signatory.

It looks possible that if the U.S. Congress fails to find Trump having acted illegally, Ukraine might. Which wouldn't be saying much for us as a nation.

Regardless, the President looks like he has finally succeeded in getting a Ukraine investigation!
Click to expand...



In case it hasn't already been said, poetic justice being written.
 
Michael Cole said:
I don't blame you for skepticism, but I think Zelensky and the Ukrainians want to rid themselves of Trump as quickly as possible. Zelensky does not want another 4 years of Trump.

As with everything else in this melodrama, the irony is piercing. If I'm correct in my assumption, that would mean Zelensky is actively interfering in our elections. Not by electronic espionage nor conspiratorial social media, but by an investigation intended to expose corruption. A perfectly legal and legitimate investigation, that could be 99% tactical and 1% legal. And Trump can't say a thing about it.
Click to expand...

It may be tactical. It's 100% legal. It's not interfering in our elections if he's simply going after the truth regardless of the effect the truth has. It may effect our elections, but that's not his fault. Effecting is not the same as interferring.
 
Moot said:
That sure is an avalanche of evidence coming in all at once. Do you think it's just a coincidence...or did Pelosi plan it that way?

I think McGahn's grand jury testimony might get released soon, too.
Click to expand...

She may have known some of what was in the works. It's hard to say. At a minimum she decided to put a hold on moving forward to pressure Trump. I was hoping for a Trump blow up at least. With so much out there it wasn't hare to predict that something would come out. It was like squeezing a zit. Pop!!!
 
Moot said:
And that she does...and has. Now I can't wait to see the movie. :mrgreen:

I kinda hope justice will be lenient with Parnas for coming forth like he has. His friend Igor is awful quiet...maybe he's still hoping for a pardon.
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I'm hoping for a Gilbert and Sullivan style operetta.:mrgreen:
 
GreatNews2night said:
Exactly. Nothing is clearer. As if Trump cared about corruption, LOL. He sees corruption as a business opportunity. Like Lev Parnas said, this was never about corruption. The idiotic Trumpers say Biden was also involved in quid-pro-quo; true, but the non-criminal kind, implementing Obama's policies, and not for personal gain (by the way, the Burisma corruption probe happened two years before Hunter Biden joined the company so Biden's anticorruption actions against that prosecutor had absolutely nothing to do with his son),
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Our intrepid corruption fighting president actually wanted to get rid of the Corrupt Practices Act.
Trump Tried to Kill Foreign Corrupt Practices Act: Book | Law & Crime
 
Chomsky said:
I swear, I can't disagree. Let's hope Trump doesn't get re-elected, and perhaps this can be seen as an experiment gone wrong - as they sometimes do. But if he gets re-elected, our standing on the world stage will be garbage. That's something I can't accept.
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You're actually concerned about the opinion of one of the most corrupt countries in the world? They couldn't find the 'world stage' if they were sitting on it.

Ambassadors can be both investigated and/or fired. This is nothing new.
 
bearpoker said:
She may have known some of what was in the works. It's hard to say. At a minimum she decided to put a hold on moving forward to pressure Trump. I was hoping for a Trump blow up at least. With so much out there it wasn't hare to predict that something would come out. It was like squeezing a zit. Pop!!!
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I think she put the works on hold as soon she heard McConnell say he wasn't going to be impartial or hold a fair trial. But in waiting, more evidence has continued to pour in. This latest batch, especially Parnas's evidence, seems to have been timed to get it to the House before they sent the articles to the Senate.

I like your analogy. LOL

bearpoker said:
I'm hoping for a Gilbert and Sullivan style operetta.:mrgreen:
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Even better. LOL


Julia Roberts as Pelosi?
 
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