• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Giuliani requested meeting with Ukraine president, new Trump impeachment evidence shows

You are the one always harping about money;

As for me, I also don't have an issue or problem with paying taxes. I understand that a government works by utilizing the taxes we as a society pay...

The bulk of the people whining and crying about paying taxes, generally fits two groups.. that is Right Winger's and Wealthy Right Wingers.... I don't see any threads in this Forum where any Liberal people are incessantly talking about hoarding money, or complaining incessantly about paying taxes.

No, I am harping about wasted tax dollars and making people dependent always blaming someone else. People aren't whining about paying taxes people are whining about the abuse of those tax dollars particularly when it comes to the entitlement funds which were "borrowed" by the bureaucrats, spent on other social programs and the Vietnam War and then paid back by selling bonds because the gov't continues to run a deficit not because of FIT and CIT shortfalls as neither were created to fund SS and Medicare

You are the one focused on spending money in the name of compassion which is your entire ideology because it makes you feel good not because it does any good. You really need to pay attention to actual results and not spend all your time here believing what cult followers tell you. Why don't you find out why they are so adamant about raising taxes and so against people keeping more of what they earn as it doesn't matter what tax revenue goes to the gov't they will always spend it to buy votes
 
No, I am harping about wasted tax dollars and making people dependent always blaming someone else. People aren't whining about paying taxes people are whining about the abuse of those tax dollars particularly when it comes to the entitlement funds which were "borrowed" by the bureaucrats, spent on other social programs and the Vietnam War and then paid back by selling bonds because the gov't continues to run a deficit not because of FIT and CIT shortfalls as neither were created to fund SS and Medicare

You are the one focused on spending money in the name of compassion which is your entire ideology because it makes you feel good not because it does any good. You really need to pay attention to actual results and not spend all your time here believing what cult followers tell you. Why don't you find out why they are so adamant about raising taxes and so against people keeping more of what they earn as it doesn't matter what tax revenue goes to the gov't they will always spend it to buy votes

Nixon is the one who took America off the Gold Standard, because of the excessive spending on war based military industrial greed based programming, and when he did that, the dollar became not backed by anything other than what people called the "Confidence In America"... and that was backed by being a Reserve Currency, which was and is backed by the Petro Dollar.

You forget the 10s and 100's of thousands to millions of jobs that were lost when the Reagan Era Union Busting was in Overdrive. That means those people were no longer paying into the tax system, they were no longer earning the pay that could translate into a higher % going to SS, or to Medicare.. It also meant, that the Medical System could no longer keep rates low, when these high volumes of people no longer had the numbers to support collective bargaining to support the insurer's the basis to work with their actuaries to provide lower cost medical care programs.

You talk about what goes into Social Security, which is nothing more than "trying to pay back, with interest" what was "borrowed from social security"... Now, if you want to address Social Security, then the statement, may well be... The Fed's Never should have borrowed from S.S. in the first place... and if they had not been on a Union Busting Agenda under Republicans, and an Outsourcing Madness under both parties... then we would not have the issues today.. and we would not have a system where there is no "factory building growth taking place in this day and time.

I don't disagree with you in the regard of some areas where there is mass waste and one, is the continual "dumping of money into Military Industrial Complex Industries". and allowing Pharmaceuticals, to come in and take claim over government grant funded prescription developments and then stick a patent on it, and profit far and above the nominal cost to produce these drugs, and they never pay the government the grant money back. The general public see these grant programs at Universities, but never question how and why the government allows these independent companies to take credit for what a good % of federal monies funded in the development of drugs and various other things that private industry comes in and stake claim... but none of them "pay the government back the grant funds they took advantage of".

It's not the average everyday America who caused the National Debt... nor the Budget Deficit... it was done by the wealthy writing policy, and owning politicians who sell their vote and our voice away, for a campaign contribution, or some under the table tip... on how to get paid.

Society, has never been of the awareness and independence of mind, to "call out the wealthy"... instead society was and still is groomed to try and lay blame anywhere and upon anyone, to avoid... laying blame where much of it belongs... which is upon the wealthy and their dominance over a segment of society, primarily the Republican Right Winger, who even in this day and time...are resistant to learning, investigating and being knowledgeable.. instead, people have been groomed to live like a "drama junkie" waiting on the next drama fix...
 
Nixon is the one who took America off the Gold Standard, because of the excessive spending on war based military industrial greed based programming, and when he did that, the dollar became not backed by anything other than what people called the "Confidence In America"... and that was backed by being a Reserve Currency, which was and is backed by the Petro Dollar.

You forget the 10s and 100's of thousands to millions of jobs that were lost when the Reagan Era Union Busting was in Overdrive. That means those people were no longer paying into the tax system, they were no longer earning the pay that could translate into a higher % going to SS, or to Medicare.. It also meant, that the Medical System could no longer keep rates low, when these high volumes of people no longer had the numbers to support collective bargaining to support the insurer's the basis to work with their actuaries to provide lower cost medical care programs.

You talk about what goes into Social Security, which is nothing more than "trying to pay back, with interest" what was "borrowed from social security"... Now, if you want to address Social Security, then the statement, may well be... The Fed's Never should have borrowed from S.S. in the first place... and if they had not been on a Union Busting Agenda under Republicans, and an Outsourcing Madness under both parties... then we would not have the issues today.. and we would not have a system where there is no "factory building growth taking place in this day and time.

I don't disagree with you in the regard of some areas where there is mass waste and one, is the continual "dumping of money into Military Industrial Complex Industries". and allowing Pharmaceuticals, to come in and take claim over government grant funded prescription developments and then stick a patent on it, and profit far and above the nominal cost to produce these drugs, and they never pay the government the grant money back. The general public see these grant programs at Universities, but never question how and why the government allows these independent companies to take credit for what a good % of federal monies funded in the development of drugs and various other things that private industry comes in and stake claim... but none of them "pay the government back the grant funds they took advantage of".

It's not the average everyday America who caused the National Debt... nor the Budget Deficit... it was done by the wealthy writing policy, and owning politicians who sell their vote and our voice away, for a campaign contribution, or some under the table tip... on how to get paid.

Society, has never been of the awareness and independence of mind, to "call out the wealthy"... instead society was and still is groomed to try and lay blame anywhere and upon anyone, to avoid... laying blame where much of it belongs... which is upon the wealthy and their dominance over a segment of society, primarily the Republican Right Winger, who even in this day and time...are resistant to learning, investigating and being knowledgeable.. instead, people have been groomed to live like a "drama junkie" waiting on the next drama fix...

Nixon isn't in office, Trump is and the results are quite astounding regardless of what you want to believe. What I find is someone like you who believes you are an expert on every topic ignoring those with more experience. that is a prescription for failure. This country was built on individual wealth creation and as I pointed out and you ignored, rich people have done nothing to prevent you from joining them, it is your own failures that prevent you from doing that so all you do is promote class envy and jealousy
 
Trump impeachment evidence: Giuliani requested meeting with Ukraine president

[h=1]Giuliani requested meeting with Ukraine president, new Trump impeachment evidence shows[/h]

  • A trove of new evidence in the impeachment case against President Donald Trump will be delivered to the Senate by the House Judiciary Committee, according to several House committee chairs who announced the news Tuesday.
  • The evidence includes new text messages and phone records from Lev Parnas, a Ukrainian American business partner of Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s personal lawyer.
  • “In my capacity as personal counsel to President Trump and with his knowledge and consent, I request a meeting with you on this upcoming Monday, May 13th or Tuesday May 14th,” Giuliani wrote in a letter passed to an aide to Ukraine’s president.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rudy is still campaigning Trump to be his representative lawyer at the upcoming Senate trial. This is funny and I wish that Trump would let him. Having an attorney that's currently under criminal investigation would be interesting.

Vadym Prystaiko, Foreign Minister of Ukraine: "Frankly, I have not spoken with [Lev Parnas], and again, frankly, I don’t trust any word he is now saying."
 
I'm going through Parnas's notes, which have just been released. This is going to take some time to digest.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uplo...l_letter_to_hjc_-_new_evidence_attachment.pdf

Digest this while you're at it:
Vadym Prystaiko, Foreign Minister of Ukraine: "Frankly, I have not spoken with [Lev Parnas], and again, frankly, I don’t trust any word he is now saying."

Source:
The Hill on Twitter: "Vadym Prystaiko, Foreign Minister of Ukraine: "Frankly, I have not spoken with [Lev Parnas], and again, frankly, I don’t trust any word he is now saying."… https://t.co/a7eMOsIkHH"
 
Digest this while you're at it:
Vadym Prystaiko, Foreign Minister of Ukraine: "Frankly, I have not spoken with [Lev Parnas], and again, frankly, I don’t trust any word he is now saying."

Source:
The Hill on Twitter: "Vadym Prystaiko, Foreign Minister of Ukraine: "Frankly, I have not spoken with [Lev Parnas], and again, frankly, I don’t trust any word he is now saying."… https://t.co/a7eMOsIkHH"

I don't trust him either because I don't understand his motives and he's been knowingly working with bad people (corrupt Ukrainian officials, Russian mobsters, Trump, Trump's personal lawyer, etc.), for more years than I know.

What he has said dovetails with what we know, though, and a proper investigation will need to be conducted, first and foremost into how an illegal surveillance operation was carried out on a US ambassador. While the State Department has shown zero interest in opening such an investigation regarding one of its own people, the Ukrainian government has shown more respect for ethics and the law than us by opening an investigation of their own.

Prystaiko's statement is certainly not for nothing, though I don't know how much weight to give it yet since Parnas never actually claimed to speak with him personally.

Finally, the Trump Administration could refute Parnas in its entirety with testimony and communications, but that won't happen and you know why.
 
frankly, I don’t trust any word he is now saying."…

but all he is saying is that Trump and Biden were implementing long standing policy by trading military aid for anti corruption.
 
.. laying blame where much of it belongs... which is upon the wealthy

??? the wealthy are our Gods. They invent our products and give us our jobs. Without them we'd all be dead!! Do you understand?
 
You forget the 10s and 100's of thousands to millions of jobs that were lost when the Reagan Era Union Busting was in Overdrive. ..

totally wrong of course!!! Union busting saved millions of jobs that would have gone offshore as the world globalized.
 
It's not the average everyday America who caused the National Debt... nor the Budget Deficit... it was done by the wealthy writing policy,.

Totally mistaken of course debt and deficit are caused by liberals buying votes with promises of free stufff ie welfare entitlements!!
 
Nixon isn't in office, Trump is and the results are quite astounding regardless of what you want to believe. What I find is someone like you who believes you are an expert on every topic ignoring those with more experience. that is a prescription for failure. This country was built on individual wealth creation and as I pointed out and you ignored, rich people have done nothing to prevent you from joining them, it is your own failures that prevent you from doing that so all you do is promote class envy and jealousy

So what's your excuse? Or are you going to claim you're one of the rich?
 
The funds must be apportioned so that they can be obligated by the end of the fiscal year. They were not. It doesn't matter if OMB apportioned the funds right before FYE, because the violation was that they weren't apportioned in time to be obligated before they expired. This is a blatant violation of the ICA which was passed specifically so Presidents couldn't play games with appropriated funds.
This is very helpful in understand the role between the judicial and legislative branches of government. Well worth watching. Sean Hannity brushes off ruling that Trump’s hold on aid to Ukraine was illegal | Media Matters for America
 
Dobbs:

I believe you said this: Trump didn't 'illegally withhold' any funds. Instead he paid them before the term expired.

Instead? Lemme see. How do normal honest human beings use the word instead?

"We were going to the movies but stayed home instead."

"Instead of writing a check, I paid online."

"I wanted a beer but ordered a coke instead."

The word 'instead' implies two or more possibilities. What you wrote indicates that withholding aid was a possibility. Dumb move. You shoulda wrote, Trump didn't 'illegally withhold' any funds. He paid them before the term expired.

You really need to learn how to be a better liar.
Seems you're suffering from those disorienting senior citizen moments that lead to confusion and personal insults rather than looking at the points being made. If you find the word 'instead' troubling then just move on to other words and the meaning may then become more clear. If you still don't understand then just move on to another post, or poster, and enjoy the remainder of your day.
 
Well, as per the "transcript" what trump actually asked zelenskyy to do was to get ahold of one of their "rich guys", who owns Crowdstrike, to get him to give up the DNC servers that he is hiding there, in Ukraine.

So basically he asked for something that zelenskyy could not possibly do, as Crowdstrike is a California company owned by Americans.

In all of this I have never heard any republican politician talk about trump's second "ask" at all. They skip right by that and go to the Manafort "black ledger" thing with Chalupa.

But trump said nothing about Manafort or that ledger on his "perfect call".

FYI, the conspiracy theory is that, since the rich guy from the Ukraine has a partial interest in Crowdstrike, the rich guy from the Ukraine living in the Ukraine physically has the Crowdstrike server(s) which, allegedly, hold the DNC emails which were, allegedly, hacked.
What Is CrowdStrike? Firm Hired By DNC Has Ties To Hillary Clinton, A Ukrainian Billionaire, And Google | Zero Hedge
 
The subject of the impeachment is, in part, abuse of power.
However, Mr. Biden is not immune from being investigated.
If you wish to say there is no reason for him to be investigated, that's fine. But then please understand that he wasn't.

Biden is nothing but a deflection at this point. One of many props in Trump's theater. The subject of investigation and impeachment is the president, not Biden, and going on about his alleged Burisma 'corruption' at this point is worse than mere deflection: it's fantasy. That's not what is happening. Trump is the one in trouble.

Even if he did do something worth investigating, the president withholding aid to get it was impeachable in itself. That's the topic here.
 
Are you seriously going to argue that foreign countries have a RIGHT to USA funds, with no strings attached?

The president does not get to attach personal political favors as those strings. The aid comes from the country not at his pleasure.
 
You claim the President of the Ukraine was 'strong armed' but he and the US President both say he wasn't, and there is no evidence that he was. Who to believe?

The 18 witnesses. The paper trail. The telephone transcripts. The president and his Ukranian counterpart can tell us what they felt at the time, so what? We certainly cannot believe a word Trump says. The other guy? Meh, 18 witnesses in the know and in on the procedures. His recollection of the spirit of the conversation hardly matters when we have the other evidence. And more keeps coming out.

So that's who to believe, everyone but Trump.
 
The 18 witnesses. The paper trail. The telephone transcripts. The president and his Ukranian counterpart can tell us what they felt at the time, so what? We certainly cannot believe a word Trump says. The other guy? Meh, 18 witnesses in the know and in on the procedures. His recollection of the spirit of the conversation hardly matters when we have the other evidence. And more keeps coming out.

So that's who to believe, everyone but Trump.
So you believe who specifically?

Members of a government listed among the most corrupt in the world? The Biden family taking in $1 million a year from these people? Members of the US Congress who lied, and are still lying, about what was said in a transcript available to anyone who cares to read it? Who do you believe?
 
So you believe who specifically?

Members of a government listed among the most corrupt in the world? The Biden family taking in $1 million a year from these people? Members of the US Congress who lied, and are still lying, about what was said in a transcript available to anyone who cares to read it? Who do you believe?
The current Ukrainian government is not corrupt.
The Biden “family” did not get a million a year. Hunter Biden was their lawyer and he was paid for services, which is neither unusual nor corrupt. The amount he was paid is all over the place.
Trump was trying to make Ukrainian more corrupt, by using them for his corrupt purposes.
 
The current Ukrainian government is not corrupt.
The Biden “family” did not get a million a year. Hunter Biden was their lawyer and he was paid for services, which is neither unusual nor corrupt. The amount he was paid is all over the place.
Trump was trying to make Ukrainian more corrupt, by using them for his corrupt purposes.
The corruption is over already? From one of the top three corrupt countries in the world to no corruption in less than a year? I doubt it. Zelensky was elected to fight corruption, and good luck to him, but an infamous bureaucracy does not reform itself in a few months.

They hired Hunter Biden because of his experience as a lawyer? So the million a year retainer was for his legal expertise? Doesn't that seem like a lot for someone of Biden's iffy background and limited experience?

How was Trump being corrupt by wanting possible corruption investigated??
 
The corruption is over already? From one of the top three corrupt countries in the world to no corruption in less than a year? I doubt it. Zelensky was elected to fight corruption, and good luck to him, but an infamous bureaucracy does not reform itself in a few months.

They hired Hunter Biden because of his experience as a lawyer? So the million a year retainer was for his legal expertise? Doesn't that seem like a lot for someone of Biden's iffy background and limited experience?

How was Trump being corrupt by wanting possible corruption investigated??
You first said the Biden family got a million a year, when Joe Biden never saw a penny. That’s the sleazy innuendo your side uses. How do you know his salary? The number keeps increasing as time goes on. Perhaps they thought hiring Hunter would buy them influence. All indications are that they were wrong.

As stated many times, Trump wanted the Ukraine to announce an investigation into Biden, whether they did it or not. Saying Trump was interested in fighting corruption is laughable. Believing that tripe is worse.

I know you want to pretend we’re having a serious discussion when we both know it isn’t serious.
 
Last edited:
So you believe who specifically?

Members of a government listed among the most corrupt in the world? The Biden family taking in $1 million a year from these people? Members of the US Congress who lied, and are still lying, about what was said in a transcript available to anyone who cares to read it? Who do you believe?

On the subject of trump’s corruption I believe the content listed in the articles of impeachment. As for the transcript nobody has to ‘lie’ about it. We all read it and trump’s guilt is obvious.
 
That’s the conspiracy theory and it’s false.

The Russian collusion with the Trump campaign to interfere in the 2016 election was a hoax and conspiracy theory.
This impeachment from the phone call with Zelensky is based upon a conspiracy theory.

You aren't tired of the gov't investigating conspiracy theories. You are tired of the gov't investigating conspiracy theories which could hurt democrats.
 
Back
Top Bottom