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Giuliani requested meeting with Ukraine president, new Trump impeachment evidence shows

Athanasius68 said:
A president either exercises his constitutional authority within his domain.

Or he doesnt.

There is no try.

The president has the authority to place conditions on foreign aid.
He didn't do so.
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1. In our system of laws, a failed "try" can still be a crime. So, you're wrong. There IS a "try".

2. Threatening a foreign leader is an action a President can take in furtherance of his official duties and in pursuit of U.S. national interests (meaning Trump was exercising his authority as President -- acting as the President -- when he abused the office of the President and was not acting out in some temporary, alternate universe where he was momentarily not being the President and just doing something for sh*ts and giggles).

3. Trump threatened Ukraine, by attempting to extort from Ukraine a favor, by threatening to withhold various official acts and assets that Ukraine wanted from the U.S. government in exchange for a personal benefit. And we have evidence of this in the form of direct evidence from Trump himself via the transcript.

4. Yes, the President has the authority to place conditions on foreign aid. HOWEVER, that authority ends the moment he engages in illegal or impeachable conduct. The President does NOT have the authority to engage in corrupt acts. The President does NOT have the authority to abuse the office of the President by trying to use the power and authority of the office of the President in an attempt to extract a personal benefit through the corrupt manipulation of his authority. CORRUPTION is NOT a power of the executive branch...no matter how much you might like it to be so.

5. And we just found out that yet another thing that Trump actually did withhold from Ukraine was an official visit by Pence to Zeleneskyy's inauguration. So there's that.

6. Trump did place conditions on the military aid and was somewhat successful in extracting from Ukraine the condition he demanded. Trump did extract from Ukraine a promise to publicly announce an investigation of the Bidens as per Sondland and Taylor's testimony, and Ukraine eventually did just that and announced a review of the Burisma investigation in a sort of half-way measure to placate Trump:

Ukraine Conducts Probe Sought By Trump Regarding Hunter Biden's Ex-Employer : NPR

7. Trump conditioned an official White House visit and Pence's visit to Zelenskyy's inauguration and successfully prevented both things from happening.
 
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Athanasius68 said:
Its illegal to rob a bank.
Its illegal to try to rob a bank.

Its not illegal for a president to place conditions on foreign aid.
Its not illegal for a president to think about placing conditions on foreign aid.

In other words, the bank robbery analogy is flawed.
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It's illegal to put conditions on foreign aid when it is FOR the president's PERSONAL benefit. In other words, it is a CORRECT analogy. Trump supporters are the most corrupt people in the nation.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Its not illegal for a president to place conditions on foreign aid.
Its not illegal for a president to think about placing conditions on foreign aid.
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You can keep repeating this all day long but it doesn't change the fact that it IS against federal law to withhold funds appropriated by congress without notifying congress and congress approving.
 
BlueTex said:
You can keep repeating this all day long but it doesn't change the fact that it IS against federal law to withhold funds appropriated by congress without notifying congress and congress approving.
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And there is a time frame to do so.
And the funds were released.
There is no issue.
 
Praxas said:
It's illegal to put conditions on foreign aid when it is FOR the president's PERSONAL benefit. In other words, it is a CORRECT analogy. Trump supporters are the most corrupt people in the nation.
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Investigating a presidential candidate is definitely problematic (unless apparently its a Democratic president investigating a Republican presidential candidate).
Fortunately, no such investigation of a Democratic candidate by a Republican president occurred.
 
Athanasius68 said:
And there is a time frame to do so.
And the funds were released.
There is no issue.
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The funds were NOT released in the FY they were appropriated... Congress had to place special language in the continuing resolution passed on Sep 26th to make the funds available after Sep 30th. This is INDISPUTABLE... The Javelin missiles were not even available for funding till Nov 3rd...
 
Athanasius68 said:
Investigating a presidential candidate is definitely problematic (unless apparently its a Democratic president investigating a Republican presidential candidate).
Fortunately, no such investigation of a Democratic candidate by a Republican president occurred.
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It was asked for and when Trump found out it was being looked at, he released the aid. Again, you would have us believe it was just investigating corruption. Like out of the entire Ukraine country the NUMBER ONE corruption was "Biden's son". Yeah right, go sell that bull**** to some idiot like Hannity or Rush Limpdick.

Again, my analogy fits perfect as well as proves me 100% correct about Trump and Trump supporters. Trump and his supporters are corrupt.
 
BlueTex said:
The funds were NOT released in the FY they were appropriated... Congress had to place special language in the continuing resolution passed on Sep 26th to make the funds available after Sep 30th. This is INDISPUTABLE... The Javelin missiles were not even available for funding till Nov 3rd...
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Mountains out of mole hills.
The funding wasn't set up as one lump sum anyways but rather spread over a couple of years.
 
Praxas said:
It was asked for and when Trump found out it was being looked at, he released the aid. Again, you would have us believe it was just investigating corruption. Like out of the entire Ukraine country the NUMBER ONE corruption was "Biden's son". Yeah right, go sell that bull**** to some idiot like Hannity or Rush Limpdick.

Again, my analogy fits perfect as well as proves me 100% correct about Trump and Trump supporters. Trump and his supporters are corrupt.
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Congress, in a bipartisan fashion, was threatening to withhold Defense spending unless the aid was released.
And so it was.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Congress, in a bipartisan fashion, was threatening to withhold Defense spending unless the aid was released.
And so it was.
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Keep telling yourself that bull****, the evidence tells it differently as well as Trump's phone calls. You support corruption plain and simple because it's Trump. This is why Trump supporters are not Americans. They are the enemy and should be treated as such.
 
 
Fred C Dobbs II said:
You claim the President of the Ukraine was 'strong armed' but he and the US President both say he wasn't, and there is no evidence that he was. Who to believe?

Americans who are aware of the Biden corruption certainly care.
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Oh heavens, of course I believe Trump! Why on earth wouldnt I? If it wasn't for him, I would be unaware of the perils of windmill cancer. You can take his word to the bank!

Undoubtedly it is his well-known concern about corruption where he's not getting a cut is what's driving his effort - a top priority. Requiring Uktraine to announce an investigation into Hunter Biden is the perfect strategy, giving investigators the opportunity to catch the now-warned instigators in the act of covering it up. Very shrewd! Trump us playing 16 dimensional chess!

And the beauty part is, he clearly has nothing to gain by all this. The man positively bleeds altruism. You can see that his big donations to veterans organizations that the court asks him to cough up.


And Zelensky would of course deny it. He needs Trump.
 
 
Lutherf said:
Well, if you read the 38 pages (partial pages with a few blanks) you'll see that only 2016 is discussed. Rudy was obviously on the hunt to figure out Ukrainian sources of assistance to Clinton....like he's been saying all along.
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Which also shoots down the premise of dems' CT impeachment articles against Trump.:lamo
 
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SLC said:
Biden was part of the Ukraine corruption that Trump was trying to stop.
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But Trump can't investigate Biden because Biden is running for president in 2020.:roll:
 
Conservative said:
LOL, yep, hatred of compassion is my problem? This is a joke, Compassion isn't throwing money at the problem compassion is getting results from that spending meaning actually solving a problem. Liberalism spends in the name of compassion but never holds bureaucrats responsible for the results which are dependence and debt. When you get your first job you will realize how good it feels to generating something for yourself vs having it handed to you from a bureaucrat. Kids and adults don't appreciate what they are given but do appreciate what they earn
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You should think about "throwing money" when the $Billions go to Big Oil, Military Industrial Contractors, and Rip off's by Contractors who fleece the system with change orders and over priced billing among just a few things.

You can spin the drama any way that it appeases you, but you history on this forum has already established you as one who has disrespect for the needs of people, and your disrespect for the congressional approved programs, services and provisions. That' mentality of hatred is straight out of the 1960's George Wallace Playbook, of Segregationist, who hated to see Minorities and women have accessibility to programs, services and provisions, that white people took advantage of for decades upon decades, who think its only their group that should have access to programs, services and provisions that congress approves, implements and supports by legislation. But, now matter how much your hate it... there's not a damn thing you can do about it. You get "one vote".... so, you can wallow in your inhumane disregard for the struggling and challenged in society till the day you no longer exist, and it won't stop America's system from being one that has humane regard for American Citizens.

You can't tell others what and how to live, no matter how much desperation's you have to do so. You are no role model for society, and certainly not some beacon of anything except in your own mind. I don't know... but maybe your have such disdain within your own circle based on the attitude you present.

Basically, not many in society is as abusive as you think, nor is there as many as you think that are ungrateful of the assistance they receive. Your dislike of people who utilize programs, services and provisions is nothing more than Right Wing, talking points that is nothing more than a carry over from the segregationist types mindset from the past...

Maybe your should get out and see reality... rather than regurgitation what Right Wing Media feeds you as a daily drama chase fix.... Go to the Midwest, or the various states and regions where people are struggling, and spew your spin and see how quick they tell you to get the heck out of their lives.


Hope one day, you come to find Peace and Respect for Society...
 
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Athanasius68 said:
The original issue, as per the transcript, was whether Ukraine had also interfered in the 2016 election. The Biden issue came up as an area of where if the Ukraine could be pressured to fire the prosecutor, could Ukraine also be pressured to interfere in the election.
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Well, as per the "transcript" what trump actually asked zelenskyy to do was to get ahold of one of their "rich guys", who owns Crowdstrike, to get him to give up the DNC servers that he is hiding there, in Ukraine.

So basically he asked for something that zelenskyy could not possibly do, as Crowdstrike is a California company owned by Americans.

In all of this I have never heard any republican politician talk about trump's second "ask" at all. They skip right by that and go to the Manafort "black ledger" thing with Chalupa.

But trump said nothing about Manafort or that ledger on his "perfect call".
 
SLC said:
Biden was part of the Ukraine corruption that Trump was trying to stop.
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But the only part he was interested in, if you don't count him thinking the DNC servers are hidden at crowdstrike in Ukraine, which trump thinks is owned by one of their "rich guys".

So a thing of personal benefit: dirt on Biden.

And a hope that he can pin the interference on Ukraine for the deomcrats instead of Russia for him, removing the asterisk after his name in the list of presidents.

(Would the asterisk be before or after the "impeached" entry?)
 
Look man. Here's the deal.

New evidence, old evidence, it doesn't matter. Anyone who STILL supports President Trump, knowing what we all know now and several years of governance with his administration, are not going to budge. They are in it for the long haul. I often refer to these folks as "5th Avenue Trumpers" playing off the words spoken by the president saying that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his people would still support him.

This is not your father's Grand Ol' Party that consisted of conservative minded people that often played to the religious right and stood on the grounds of morality, dignity and honor to solidify their support. This is the new GOP who plays off their base who has no problem with spin, alt-facts and downright lies. As long as their guy sticks the dagger in to the democrats, Never Trumpers, "Libtards" and Mexicans, among other segments of society that are growing in numbers and secretly believe White Makes Right, they are okay with Trump. Morals, Integrity, doing what's right, is obviously of no concern to them anymore. It resembles a sort of tribalism of those who see their majority diminishing and their power and ideals being minimized.

Who are these people? These people are your neighbors. Your friends. Family members. Co-workers. These people are American every bit as much as anyone else and their desires, (albeit considered archaic, regressive, and hypocritical by many) are as worthy of consideration as anyone else's is. They see America more and more supporting things they firmly stand against. Gay marriage, marijuana legalization, gender equality, minority representation, women's reproductive rights, just to name a few. They see the nation steering towards liberty for segments they traditionally ostracized and that are scared ****less of these progressive changes. If Trump will stand beside them in their battle for abortion, minority oppression, gay rights, etc., they seem willing to overlook the fact that he is a compulsive liar, adulterer, con-man and irredeemably corrupt. To them it is a trade-off. A trade-off they seem willing to accept.

Trump has been, and forever will be, "impeached." And done so by the duly elected members of the house of representatives in accordance to the American constitution. But I think that's as far as it will get. The senate, duly elected as well, has stated openly that they have no intention on following through with it. Are they like the typical and deplorable Trumper, steeped in malfeasance and glued to Sean Hannity or FOXNews? No. No they are not. I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that, in private quarters, they dislike President Trump as much as the majority of Americans do. But they know there is no way to secure their positions without the 5th Avenue Trumper vote and they are simply doing what they have to do to maintain their power.

So, in short, in matters not about the solid evidence against Trump or any new evidence that has recently surfaced. The fix is in. The senate majority (GOP) have no intention to abiding to the oath they are about to take. They have made that clear. This is a waste of time.

You know, I do find myself having a giggle or two when I hear a Trumper whining about congress already deciding to impeach Trump even before the evidence became official. Yet, you don't hear a peep out of them when the GOP senate does the same by saying that intend to deny witnesses and acquit even before the trial begins. They are all complicit in obstruction by denying evidence, blocking evidence, and following the same path that landed Trump his obstruction charge to begin with.

But, this too, shall pass. In 20 years Trump will be as insignificant as Bill Clinton and the only thing history will talk about, as in the same case of Bill Clinton, is Trump being one of the impeached. That will be Trump's legacy. You never hear people talking about all the good things Bill Clinton did while in office. All you hear about is Monica and the impeachment. It will be no different for Trump.

And the beat goes on.
 
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Cougarbear said:
Debunked by who? Barisma was most certainly being investigated as Biden on TV stated so. And, that he demanded to the President of the Ukraine to fire the prosecutor who was investigating Barisma at the time of his son being on the board of Barisma. Just for once listen to Biden bragging about extorting the Ukrainian President to fire the prosecutor investigating Barisma. FLASHBACK, 2018: Joe Biden Brags At CFR Meeting About Withholding Aid To Ukraine To Force Firing Of Prosecutor | Video | RealClearPolitics
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There is no mention of Burisma in that interview.

And you have clearly seen none of the Contemporaneous reporting on the subject, as it wasn't just biden that was concerned with that prosecutor. The IMF and great Britain were as well.

Have you even heard of the "diamond prosecutors"? Two of Shokin's prosecutors caught with stacks of cash and jewels that Shoken refused to even investigate. Ukrainians were up in arms about that completely apart from Biden.

Which I doubt you have heard anything about either, as it doesn't help the narrative your media and politicians are selling.
 
What if...? said:
Why would that matter?

A new crime doesn't erase those that came earlier.

And just so there's now misunderstanding, crowdstrike is an American company owned by Americans.

So there is literally no way zelenskyy could have found the DNC servers hidden at their offices in Ukraine. Nor leaned on one of their "rich guys" to give them up.

Might as well have demanded he produce a unicorn skin coat, with fairy bone buttons.

And still exactly nothing on any "corruption" that didn't involve bidens.

And if i heard correctly, Parnas was being paid $100k a month for his efforts.

Which would put Hunter's $50k/month in perspective, no?

And who exactly was paying Parnas that money? He certainly wasn't working for free.
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No he wasn't. Giuliani is, though. That's another reason we need Trump's tax returns. Giuliani can work for Trump pro bono all he wants, but Trump has to claim that as income.
 
Cougarbear said:
Debunked by who? Barisma was most certainly being investigated as Biden on TV stated so. And, that he demanded to the President of the Ukraine to fire the prosecutor who was investigating Barisma at the time of his son being on the board of Barisma. Just for once listen to Biden bragging about extorting the Ukrainian President to fire the prosecutor investigating Barisma. FLASHBACK, 2018: Joe Biden Brags At CFR Meeting About Withholding Aid To Ukraine To Force Firing Of Prosecutor | Video | RealClearPolitics
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Why keep repeating this lie?

Biden didn't even have authority to withhold the loan guarantees. Only Obama did. And guess what - Obama and the Executive had full authority to withhold those if they so wanted, because they fell under their purview unlike the Congressionally appropriated funds that Trump illegally withheld.

So your dumb conspiracy theory doesn't even make any sense.
 
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