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Thread: US budget deficit running 11.8% higher this year

  1. #111
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    Re: US budget deficit running 11.8% higher this year

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    the biggest drop in the deficit under obama was do to the sequestering that occurred.
    False.

    The biggest drop in the deficit under Obama was due to a massive increase in tax revenue:

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: US budget deficit running 11.8% higher this year

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    they still passed 1.3 trillion dollar deficits. they didn't stop until the sequester happened under republicans.
    We can try this another way:

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: US budget deficit running 11.8% higher this year

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    republicans are not in charge of the budget control and they haven't been for 2 years.
    Are you drunk? FY 2018 and 2019's budget and resolutions came out of the 115th Congress and signed by Trump.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #114
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    Re: US budget deficit running 11.8% higher this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You've already had a chance to provide something of a source, and instead, you wasted both of our time by falsely claiming common knowledge. You're welcome to try again, but i would wager you'll be running away like you always do.
    leftist lies are just lies.
    France tried and scrapped extreme version of Ocasio-Cortez'''s tax plan - Business Insider

    as i said try reading real news. in fact there were a few threads on it here.
    i will accept your apology now.


    Talk is cheap. Saying government can cut waste and be more efficient is not the same as actually doing it. We'll chalk this up to hot air.
    You concession is noted. dismissal fallacies and hand waving are not valid arguments but we know that is all you have.

    If total output is the sum of consumption, investment, government and net exports... When you reduce government, what is your logic that consumption, investment, or exports would fill the output gap left by a reduction in government?
    We are reducing government waste that will have little or no effect on those things please stick to the topic that is being discussed.
    strawmen and red herrings are fallacies not arguments.

    Talk is cheap.
    Which is all that you are doing.

    Regardless of how you feel about spending... it is happening. So, that would make this a revenue problem as no political party wants to touch spending. The interesting part is only one political party claims it wants to cut spending, but every time the ball falls in their court, they pass.
    No it is a spending problem. If make 100k but i am spending 150k i don't have a revenue issue i have a spending issue.
    it means i need to reduce some spending in my habits. if i get a raise and make 125k a year but then increasing my spending to 175k.
    it still means i have a spending issue. the only way to fix it is to spend less than i make.

    I don't really care about their report. It's not going to be implemented. Furthermore, i don't have much faith in the figures that they use to make their case... it's as though they pulled much of this out of their ass.
    dismissals are fallacies not arguments. facts are facts. by reducing the fraud and waste in government spending we can save 3.1 trillion dollars over the next 5 years.
    that would pretty much not only take out the current deficit but we would have a good surplus.

    What happened after WWII tells a much different story.
    Nothing to do with what i said. so concession noted. please stick to the topics being discussed or argued.

    Singapore is a tiny nation of 5.6 million people with an area less than 280 miles. No, it's not a valid comparison, and if you need to be told this, you probably don't need to be in these discussions.
    Hand waving does not get rid of facts. The fact is that it is running a budget surplus on low taxes. So it is a valid comparison. It proves that you can have low tax yet generate more
    revenue by what actually generates revenue economic activity. People having more disposable income (more so on the lower end) = more spending = more revenue = more profits
    = more jobs = more taxes.



    Why $1 billion? Did that just sound like a good number? Why not $500 million? Or better yet, why not $1 million?
    If an entire corporations can run themselves on < 1 billion dollars a year then so can the IRS and they don't produce or do anything.
    There is no need for them to have an 11 billion dollar budget.


    I disagree.
    disagree all you want. the irs loses 400 billion in unpaid taxes almost every year.
    meaning it doesn't collect it.

    the IRS is a disaster.
    facts don't care about your feelings.

  5. #115
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    Re: US budget deficit running 11.8% higher this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Are you drunk? FY 2018 and 2019's budget and resolutions came out of the 115th Congress and signed by Trump.
    who is in charge of the house?
    please tell us again.

    do you not know who makes the budgets?
    this is basic government 101.
    facts don't care about your feelings.

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    Re: US budget deficit running 11.8% higher this year

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    pelsoi is in charge of the house. the budget starts in the house.
    So what? The Republicans (Trump/McConnel/Senators) signed-off on it. Are you going to pretend they didn't negotiate it?

    Trump is opening up the doors to more H1B workers, giving not just them - but also their families - a new fast-track process to citizenship. Is that Pelosi, talking?
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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    Re: US budget deficit running 11.8% higher this year

    It's as if you don't remember what you post. For reference:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Cuts to spending will reduce economic growth dollar for dollar. It would be far more efficient to raise taxes on the wealthiest income earners.
    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    France proved that wrong.

    France, with already high marginal and effective tax rates over-shot. I have no problem agreeing with this point. However, my statement had to do with cuts to spending. They will reduce economic growth dollar for dollar.

    FWIW, in the U.S., we already have proven that tax increases on the wealthy will not reduce output and will grow revenue.

    You concession is noted. dismissal fallacies and hand waving are not valid arguments but we know that is all you have.
    I don't care what some obscure group that proposes spending cuts claims.

    We are reducing government waste that will have little or no effect on those things please stick to the topic that is being discussed.
    strawmen and red herrings are fallacies not arguments.
    It's not going to happen. Republican's had two years to reign in spending, and not once was their any talk about cutting waste or fraud. Not once was this obscure group praised by the 115th Congress. Not once were their recommendations given any consideration.

    No it is a spending problem.
    It was a spending problem. Then, supply-siders made illustrious claims about how cutting taxes will help the economy grow so much, that new economic activity will be able to bridge the revenue gap left by lowering taxes, and revenue growth will outpace spending growth.

    How does reality feel? Nothing that these folks predicted came to pass.

    But i did note back in 2017:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Enacting a policy of permanent fiscal stimulus would surely boost economic output. With little means of obstruction in his path, combined with some powerful bargaining chips (the SCOTUS nomination comes first to mind), U.S. GDP can very will see a massive upswing during the initial phase of his presidency. However, given that labor market slack is minimal, how beneficial will persistent deficits that flirt with $1 trillion annually be for long term economic growth? If fiscal policy isn't cut back during periods of heavy economic growth, it has great potential to crowd out private investment, and severely reduce economic efficiency in the medium to long term.

    With $1 trillion deficits, the economy won't even grow more than 2.5% for 2019.

    Nothing to do with what i said. so concession noted. please stick to the topics being discussed or argued.
    You claimed that no nation has taxed themselves into prosperity. I gave you a historical comparison, and you are dismissing it only because it entirely refutes your rhetoric.

    So it is a valid comparison.
    Nope.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: US budget deficit running 11.8% higher this year

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    who is in charge of the house?
    For fiscal years 2018, and 2019? The 115th Congress. This thread was made with respect to fiscal year 2019. Are you going to run away now?
    Last edited by Kushinator; 01-14-20 at 01:06 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: US budget deficit running 11.8% higher this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay59 View Post
    I see significantly higher interest rates, which does not help unemployment numbers. Nor do I see the threat of inflation. I will not say that they are not doing their job, but they are not helping control the deficit either.


    Yes he did. Since it appears you cannot follow, I will spell it out.

    The chart is year-over-year, so the amounts add together if you want to consider multiple years. 2017 was close to $20 Billion increase on 2016. 2018 was over $60 Billion increase on 2017, which makes over $80 compared to 2016. 2019 is about $55 Billion + $60 Billion + $20 Billion = $135 Billion. This amply proves the offered figure of "over $120 Billion". QED
    No offense Jay but I'll take the Fed's forecast over yours. The Fed deals with Monetary policy, they are absolutely doing their job.
    "Some men see things as they are and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not." Robert F. Kennedy

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    Re: US budget deficit running 11.8% higher this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is because most conservatives understand the deficit and debt whereas you don't have a clue
    So why do R's (your use of conservatives is horribly misplaced) campaign against it when D's are in office and blow up the deficit when they are in power.
    "Some men see things as they are and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not." Robert F. Kennedy

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