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Trump Threatens Iraq with sanctions

Captain Adverse said:
Really?

Well, if this is true, and I don't know if it actually is or not, as an American citizen I would have no problem vacating every foreign base we occupy in said nations.

I don't see the need to put American bodies in harms way as a barrier to possible conflicts when the people we are supposed to be "aiding" don't want us there.

After all, that was the whole point of NATO, having American troops present so that if the Soviets decided to take the rest of Europe they'd have to take the USA on too. It's also the point for troops stationed in South Korea, and also in Japan. To face N. Korea, and China in each respectively.

But by all means, if we are not "needed" nor "desired?" I'm happy to support closing every base, removing all our equipment and personnel, and letting your nation and every other deal with the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, whomever...all on your lone-some's.

All you have to do is convince your governments to "ask," and I'll be the first to lobby for us to do so.

Till then? I guess you are stuck with us whether we want to be there or not. Treaty obligations, don't you know? :coffeepap:
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Gee, think of the money you'd save. 34 Army bases in Germany alone, Naval bases around the world, why, you'd be below 2% GDP defense budget in no time, not wasting all that moolah.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Really?

Well, if this is true, and I don't know if it actually is or not, as an American citizen I would have no problem vacating every foreign base we occupy in said nations.

I don't see the need to put American bodies in harms way as a barrier to possible conflicts when the people we are supposed to be "aiding" don't want us there.

After all, that was the whole point of NATO, having American troops present so that if the Soviets decided to take the rest of Europe they'd have to take the USA on too. It's also the point for troops stationed in South Korea, and also in Japan. To face N. Korea, and China in each respectively.

But by all means, if we are not "needed" nor "desired?" I'm happy to support closing every base, removing all our equipment and personnel, and letting your nation and every other deal with the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, whomever...all on your lone-some's.

All you have to do is convince your governments to "ask," and I'll be the first to lobby for us to do so.

Till then? I guess you are stuck with us whether we want to be there or not. Treaty obligations, don't you know? :coffeepap:
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Let me start the asking, then. Please leave. I love you guys, but I don't want to get dragged into your wars. Or see my son dragged into your wars. Being an American ally at this point in history is very risky business indeed.

And I can't believe it's come to this.
 
SheWolf said:
No, you can’t blow up hospitals because tanks are parked next to them. Saddam used to park military equipment near ancient Babylonian sites, because he knew it wouldn’t be bombed. It never was bombed by American forces. It’s international law. We don’t bomb hospitals and cultural sites.
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Wanna bet. When we get our dander up we annihilate entire cities deliberately. Tokyo and Dresden that come to mind. Hanoi is another in another war.
 
ClaraD said:
Iraq is a sovereign country, they can tell us to get the hell out any time they feel the need and we should leave..
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I agree with you that if the Iraqis were to tell the Amerians to leave then they should leave but the US illegally invaded the place to overthrow the leadership and I would argue the place hasn't been anywhere near a sovereign state since . It has also violated the sovereignty of many other states since then so to expect this clown to respect anyone elses sovereignty when all of the others haven't is going to be a stretch imo

You might find that it is a case of Iraq allowing the ongoing US military presence because they have no choice but to allow it. They might want them to leave but if they say leave and the US says no then it would be an absolute confirmation of their faux sovereignty.

It is a damning indictment of the US invasion and subsequent occupation that life for most Iraqis was more stable under the horror show of Saddam Husseins rule than since it and it doesn't get more damning than that
 
Godric1970 said:
their is no US base in Scotland and when we leave the UK there will still be no US base in Scotland
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I'm thinking of moving up there :)
 
tres borrachos said:
They’re allowed to kill our people. They’re allowed to torture and maim our people. They’re allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people. And we’re not allowed to touch their cultural sites. It doesn’t work that way."

Not to me. He said it right there.
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I have no problem with him targeting their cultural sites. Personally if Trump pressed the big red button and turned Tehran and the surrounding area in to a self heating glow in the dark glass parking lot, I would not mind one little bit and probabley applaud the move. Then again I have had personal experience with Tehran's arming the local Iraqi militia with bombs and knowhow. I lost some friends to the ********ers efforts. The EFP's they supplied were especially nasty and killed many Americans. So **** them, international law, and their cultural sites.
 
PirateMk1 said:
I have no problem with him targeting their cultural sites. Personally if Trump pressed the big red button and turned Tehran and the surrounding area in to a self heating glow in the dark glass parking lot, I would not mind one little bit and probabley applaud the move. Then again I have had personal experience with Tehran's arming the local Iraqi militia with bombs and knowhow. I lost some friends to the ********ers efforts. The EFP's they supplied were especially nasty and killed many Americans. So **** them, international law, and their cultural sites.
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Okay.

I have a problem with innocent men, women and children being killed and with culture and history being wiped out. Thank goodness Hitler didn't take out the Tower of London.
 
tres borrachos said:
Okay.

I have a problem with innocent men, women and children being killed and with culture and history being wiped out. Thank goodness Hitler didn't take out the Tower of London.
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It wasn't from lack of trying. We have deliberately bombed cities into oblivion before and it wont be the last. Ask the Germans, the Japanese, the Koreans, and the Vietnamese amongst others. I dont have a problem with civilians being bombed. They provide logistical support to the military and the leadership. Logistics are how wars are won and lost. The only innocents are the children, the rest are collaborators one degree or another.
 
oneworld2 said:
I'm thinking of moving up there :)
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We looked at moving to Scotland actually, but we rely on our pensions and would lose part of them.
 
PirateMk1 said:
It wasn't from lack of trying. We have deliberately bombed cities into oblivion before and it wont be the last. Ask the Germans, the Japanese, the Koreans, and the Vietnamese amongst others. I dont have a problem with civilians being bombed. They provide logistical support to the military and the leadership. Logistics are how wars are won and lost. The only innocents are the children, the rest are collaborators one degree or another.
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I know we deliberately bombed people into oblivion before. And I think it's wrong.

Just like it was wrong when Saudi citizens came here and killed 3000 of our fellow citizens.
 
tres borrachos said:
I know we deliberately bombed people into oblivion before. And I think it's wrong.

Just like it was wrong when Saudi citizens came here and killed 3000 of our fellow citizens.
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War is wrong. Doesn't make any less necessary.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Wanna bet. When we get our dander up we annihilate entire cities deliberately. Tokyo and Dresden that come to mind. Hanoi is another in another war.
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Dresden was bad. Whole town was like a baroque cuckoo clock.
Ever read Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.? He was a POW in an underground prison during the attack and he and his fellow prisoners were what he called 'corpse miners' in the days after.
Odd that the RAF and US Air Corps would so severly bomb a city where POW's were held. I doubt that would happen now.
 
Grand Mal said:
Dresden was bad. Whole town was like a baroque cuckoo clock.
Ever read Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.? He was a POW in an underground prison during the attack and he and his fellow prisoners were what he called 'corpse miners' in the days after.
Odd that the RAF and US Air Corps would so severly bomb a city where POW's were held. I doubt that would happen now.
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We were playing for keeps.
 
Grand Mal said:
We looked at moving to Scotland actually, but we rely on our pensions and would lose part of them.
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I love the place and have travelled the length and breadth of it , stunning, as I know Canada is. Bit off topic so I'll leave it at that
 
SheWolf said:
No, you can’t blow up hospitals because tanks are parked next to them. Saddam used to park military equipment near ancient Babylonian sites, because he knew it wouldn’t be bombed. It never was bombed by American forces. It’s international law. We don’t bomb hospitals and cultural sites.
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Well, actually you can. At least by the international laws of war. We were a bit less destructive than we could have been.

From the International Red Cross:

The laws of war prohibit direct attacks on civilian objects, like schools. They also prohibit direct attacks against hospitals and medical staff. That said, a hospital or school may become a legitimate military target if it contributes to specific military operations of the enemy and its destruction offers a definite military advantage for the attacking side.
 
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ClaraD said:
except the attack wasn't perpetrated by Iranians or the Iranian government...it was perpetrated by Iraqi protesters that were protesting their government...so there was no government involvement.
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No, that's not true. These are different groups of protesters. Don't mix them up. There are pictures of Iranian agents in the crowd that attacked the embassy. And the protests against a government were in Iran, not in Iraq. You are totally mixing up these events.
 
GreatNews2night said:
He said today by Tweeter (of course) that he will refuse to leave and implement economic sanctions against Iraq, worse than the ones in effect against Iran, unless Iraq pays us billions of dollars for the money spent building the military base. If this is what happens, at this point the embassy would have to be evacuated and closed down, and our military personal would have to bunk down in a base.
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You’re right. But I also have an issue with trusting Trump’s twitter policies. Trump is so unpredictable.
 
tres borrachos said:
Trump does not seem to understand that his repeated threats to attack cultural sites are the very definition of war crimes. Pompeo knew that and spent all morning yesterday trying to deny that the President was doing it, only to have the President do it again on Air Force One last night.

Trump is threatening war crimes. That's an undisputed fact.
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Agree. Pompeo and others should know better than excusing his behavior. They know he is unfit for office. Pence would be so much better than Trump.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Wanna bet. When we get our dander up we annihilate entire cities deliberately. Tokyo and Dresden that come to mind. Hanoi is another in another war.
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We shouldn’t commit war crimes
 
justabubba said:
but that was my point. tRump's words, those in the cited tweet, are anything but crystal clear
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ok, now i stand corrected - by tRump himself
he did confirm an intent to target iranian cultural sites:
President Trump on Sunday evening doubled down on his claim that he would target Iranian cultural sites if Iran retaliated for the targeted killing of one of its top generals, and threatened “very big sanctions” on Iraq if American troops are forced to leave the country.

Aboard Air Force One on his way back from his holiday trip to Florida, Mr. Trump reiterated to reporters the spirit of a Twitter post on Saturday, when he said the United States government had identified 52 sites for retaliation against Iran if there were a response to Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani’s death. Some, he tweeted, were of “cultural” significance.

Such a move could be considered a war crime under international laws, but Mr. Trump said Sunday that he was undeterred.

“They’re allowed to kill our people. They’re allowed to torture and maim our people. They’re allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people,” the president said. “And we’re not allowed to touch their cultural site? It doesn’t work that way.”
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any ambiguity i previously suggested as a possibility is no longer present

Trump Threatens Iranian Cultural Sites, and Warns of Sanctions on Iraq - The New York Times


damn, it's tough to give that ignorant son-of-a-bitch the benefit of a doubt
 
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