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Thread: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants detail

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    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    First, its not an assassination in the sense usually defined.

    Second, I'm all for covert operations to kill scum in transnational locations - but you take what you can get. Not only would there be greater accusations of violating the laws against such covert actions but the US has never be adept at this kind of work. We don't have the competence or skill of the Mossad.
    The Mossad may be better at that sort of thing than the CIA, but we can always do better than a President who only thinks tactically, orders military operations without any regard for the consequences, and can’t keep his mouth shut about them.

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    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    The Mossad may be better at that sort of thing than the CIA, but we can always do better than a President who only thinks tactically, orders military operations without any regard for the consequences, and can’t keep his mouth shut about them.
    I'm not talking about a President and I don't care who was in charge. I can fault Trump for many things, including his failure to respond to earlier provocations which may have lead Iran into a false sense of security and self-destructive hubris. But the opportunity was perfect, and given the scumbag General's reputation for "brilliance" in terrorism and subversive warfare it looks to be well worth the political price.

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    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Your whataboutism is noted. What Iran has done is not an excuse for putting American lives at risk for no reason other than to satisfy the President’s ego.
    American lives were taken not at risk and that seems to be what you are ignoring. It is quite telling that you say defending Americans and reacting to the destruction and attack on our Embassy which is an attack on this country is an act to fuel Trump's ego. Do you realize what hatred and liberal indoctrination has done to you? Your total lack of understanding that an Embassy regardless of the country is actual sovereign soil of that country and that was a deliberate attack on the U.S. Sorry but that just doesn't meet your desire to blame Trump

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    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    American lives were taken not at risk and that seems to be what you are ignoring. It is quite telling that you say defending Americans and reacting to the destruction and attack on our Embassy which is an attack on this country is an act to fuel Trump's ego. Do you realize what hatred and liberal indoctrination has done to you? Your total lack of understanding that an Embassy regardless of the country is actual sovereign soil of that country and that was a deliberate attack on the U.S. Sorry but that just doesn't meet your desire to blame Trump
    Reread what I posted.

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    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Reread what I posted.
    I have read your statement and they make no sense, what are the consequences of killing a terrorist who masterminded the attack on the U.S. Embassy in Iraq and is responsible for killing hundreds of Americans? Isn't that the job of the President?

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    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    Your desire to muddy the waters with blatant mischaracterizations and false analogies regarding Soleimani isn't going to help persuade people of your anti-war points. Rather, it only persuades others that your "humane" agenda is not what you'd like us to believe.

    So let's be real, Soleimani was a high ranking political official within the borders of Iran, but he was also a General inside and outside of Iraq directing his Quds Force, a separate unit of the IRGC engaging in “unconventional warfare” and ” extraterritorial operations.” As a military commander he was engaged in warfare outside the borders of his own country, directly causing the deaths of many people, including Iraqis and American military troops. Moreover, the General of the Quds Force commanded a terrorist organization, as fully recognized by the United States, Canada, Egypt and many other nations.

    So no, Soleimani was not like Mike Pence or Mitch McConnel, two elected civilian Congressional politicians in the United States. And it is rather dumb to even try to make that analogy as it self-evident to all.

    Bottom line, when you are a general and enter other counties to conduct war, directly or by proxy against the US and its allies, and you are commanding leadership in the battle zone you can get killed by those who you've been killing.

    That ain't sad, it's the delivery of a long overdue reality.
    Thank you for removing the entire point of my post and then calling it a mischaracterization with false analogies. How very honest of you. And please feel free to beat on the war drums while you don't have to bear any of the consequences for your decisions. Conservative, Liberal, Democrat, Republican, other.. I don't know anyone with any ties to people who will be or have been in harms way who are treating this like an episode of GIJoe. The chickenhawks talk of blowing this up, killing that person, destroying this and don't understand what that actually means in terms of human cost. A casualty isn't just a number. It's a family dealing with a loved one that they'll never see again, knowing that their last memory was of excruciating pain. Or it's agony in a hospital bed, months trying to relearn basic skills, dealing with the sickness from massive doses of opiates and then the sickness of withdrawal, the depression they'll spend a lifetime fighting. Or its the daily fear of checking casualty lists.. hoping every day that its someone else's unit, someone else's loved one.


    So to repeat the point of my post which you so bravely deleted: the bombings done under the Obama administration were at least loosely justified under the AUMFs of 2001 and 2002. When Obama sought congressional authorization to go after Assad in Syria, congress refused to vote on the matter and conservatives went around berating Obama. There is no legal justification for Trumps assassination. Soleimani was a terrible dude. So was Jeffrey Dahmer. It would not have been okay for the president to extra-judiciously assassinate Dahmner even if it would have saved lives because the rule of law is what separates us from savagery. Like it or not, Soleimani was not a non-state terrorist. Soleimani was a representative of the Iranian government operating on behalf of a sovereign state. That means quite a lot.

    And you may not think that Soleimaini was a legitimate figure, but sadly your opinion means less than nothing. I don't think you're in any danger of retaliating against US Forces. The opinions that matter are the Iranian people. Have you seen the protests? The anger? The Iranian people's anger takes away any flexibility the Iranian government may have had. The Iranians **HAVE** to retaliate. They are going to have to attack US military targets, either in the US or in some other allied country. Americans are going to die. And what happens then? The pathetic chicken-hawks who are all too eager to send other peoples kids off to die may not have bothered to consider it yet, but everyone else already knows what's likely.

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    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Thank you for removing the entire point of my post and then calling it a mischaracterization with false analogies. How very honest of you. And please feel free to beat on the war drums while you don't have to bear any of the consequences for your decisions. Conservative, Liberal, Democrat, Republican, other.. I don't know anyone with any ties to people who will be or have been in harms way who are treating this like an episode of GIJoe. The chickenhawks talk of blowing this up, killing that person, destroying this and don't understand what that actually means in terms of human cost. A casualty isn't just a number. It's a family dealing with a loved one that they'll never see again, knowing that their last memory was of excruciating pain. Or it's agony in a hospital bed, months trying to relearn basic skills, dealing with the sickness from massive doses of opiates and then the sickness of withdrawal, the depression they'll spend a lifetime fighting. Or its the daily fear of checking casualty lists.. hoping every day that its someone else's unit, someone else's loved one.


    So to repeat the point of my post which you so bravely deleted: the bombings done under the Obama administration were at least loosely justified under the AUMFs of 2001 and 2002. When Obama sought congressional authorization to go after Assad in Syria, congress refused to vote on the matter and conservatives went around berating Obama. There is no legal justification for Trumps assassination. Soleimani was a terrible dude. So was Jeffrey Dahmer. It would not have been okay for the president to extra-judiciously assassinate Dahmner even if it would have saved lives because the rule of law is what separates us from savagery. Like it or not, Soleimani was not a non-state terrorist. Soleimani was a representative of the Iranian government operating on behalf of a sovereign state. That means quite a lot.

    And you may not think that Soleimaini was a legitimate figure, but sadly your opinion means less than nothing. I don't think you're in any danger of retaliating against US Forces. The opinions that matter are the Iranian people. Have you seen the protests? The anger? The Iranian people's anger takes away any flexibility the Iranian government may have had. The Iranians **HAVE** to retaliate. They are going to have to attack US military targets, either in the US or in some other allied country. Americans are going to die. And what happens then? The pathetic chicken-hawks who are all too eager to send other peoples kids off to die may not have bothered to consider it yet, but everyone else already knows what's likely.
    Would you please explain why you have loyalty to Iran and Soleimaini and totally ignore that Iran is a state sponsor Terror and Soleimaini was put on the terrorist list by Obama. He was in Iraq for what purpose? Do you not understand that an American Embassy or any country's embassy on foreign soil is recognized as actual territory of the country that Embassy belongs to? We were attacked, Americans were killed, the President has a responsibility to protect Americans, Because Obama didn't do it in Benghazi and an Ambassador was killed doesn't mean it wasn't authorized under the Constitution where the President is responsible for providing for the common defense

    Can you explain to us what consequences this country has experienced or faced because of this action by Trump? beating the drums of war? when did we do that? Seems you are promoting a false narrative all due to Trump and not due to facts, logic or even common sense

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    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by NeverTrump View Post
    No but Pompeo and Pence has.
    Pompeo and Pence appear to be in full support of Trump no matter what he does, and are sometimes flummoxed by his actions. They are the kind of people Trump wants—loyal to a fault.
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

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    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Would you please explain why you have loyalty to Iran and Soleimaini and totally ignore that Iran is a state sponsor Terror and Soleimaini was put on the terrorist list by Obama. He was in Iraq for what purpose? Do you not understand that an American Embassy or any country's embassy on foreign soil is recognized as actual territory of the country that Embassy belongs to? We were attacked, Americans were killed, the President has a responsibility to protect Americans, Because Obama didn't do it in Benghazi and an Ambassador was killed doesn't mean it wasn't authorized under the Constitution where the President is responsible for providing for the common defense

    Can you explain to us what consequences this country has experienced or faced because of this action by Trump? beating the drums of war? when did we do that? Seems you are promoting a false narrative all due to Trump and not due to facts, logic or even common sense
    Are you going to sign up to go fight? You willing to sacrifice any of those social security and medicare checks we write you to help out? You going to talk to anyone in your family to go join the military and fight in Iran? Americans have been busy fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan for almost 20 years now. Have you done anything at all for them? Ever send a care package? Ever make a donation? Do you have even the slightest clue what a deployment means?

    The men and women in uniform ask nothing from you.. which is good because they're unlikely to get it. But you and everyone else owes them at least a grade school understanding of the completely obvious implications for what this asinine and illegal assassination does. You're sitting here lauding Trump for chopping one of the heads of a hydra while it was sleeping; completely blind to the two that just grew back;.... wide awake and pissed off... that someone else now has to deal with.

    I have no tolerance, respect, or time for selfish entitled people who are oh so willing to send other peoples kids off to go kill other peoples kids. War is sometimes necessary, but if you're not willing to make the sacrifices yourself, don't ask them of someone else.

  10. #820
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    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Are you going to sign up to go fight? You willing to sacrifice any of those social security and medicare checks we write you to help out? You going to talk to anyone in your family to go join the military and fight in Iran? Americans have been busy fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan for almost 20 years now. Have you done anything at all for them? Ever send a care package? Ever make a donation? Do you have even the slightest clue what a deployment means?

    The men and women in uniform ask nothing from you.. which is good because they're unlikely to get it. But you and everyone else owes them at least a grade school understanding of the completely obvious implications for what this asinine and illegal assassination does. You're sitting here lauding Trump for chopping one of the heads of a hydra while it was sleeping; completely blind to the two that just grew back;.... wide awake and pissed off... that someone else now has to deal with.

    I have no tolerance, respect, or time for selfish entitled people who are oh so willing to send other peoples kids off to go kill other peoples kids. War is sometimes necessary, but if you're not willing to make the sacrifices yourself, don't ask them of someone else.
    Fight who? When was war declared? Iran has been attacking Americans for years or don't you get the actual news? We do have an all volunteer military but I did serve in the early 70's before getting a medical discharge. I was in the Vietnam era.

    So you are handing out SS and Medicare payments to me?? Thanks, now you recognize the real problem why are you doing that? I contributed for 35 years as did my employer, where did the money go?

    You really have no understanding of our enemies and believe we will be left alone if only we left countries like Iran alone. how many Americans have to die before you realize what a Caliphate is and that countries like Iran want you dead?

    Please don't tell me what men and women in uniform are asking from me and my family, I served, my dad was at Pearl Harbor, my wife's dad was at Normandy all giving you the right to make an ass out of yourself

    What you are doing is projecting like most liberals do, totally lacking in understanding what the role of the President is. what do you think Trump should have done when we are attacked in Iraq at our Embassy? You don't seem to realize what really bothers our enemy, STRENGTH AND ACTION. Clinton didn't act on the PDB in December 1998 and we were attacked in 2001. You don't negotiate with terrorists, you destroy them and you ought to be thankful we have an all volunteer military that steps up to defend you.

    Trump did his job, we aren't at war with Iran or anyone else and Iran if they have a death wish will not be doing any retaliating as Trump won't be like Obama he will destroy Iran.

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