Page 81 of 91 FirstFirst ... 31717980818283 ... LastLast
Results 801 to 810 of 906

Thread: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants detail

  1. #801
    Sensational
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Paradise
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    47,792
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred C Dobbs View Post
    That does seem to be their history, right from the Civil War to WWI, WWII, and Vietnam. Obama's pulling out of Iraq in December, 2011 when there was relative peace, was inexcusable and left the area in the turmoil we see today.
    Obama deliberately created ISIS. He turned the entire region into chaos. His private unauthorized war against Libya - including for the purpose of killing that country's leader and family - because Gadaffi was talking about going on the gold standard for oil and with him intolerant of any radicals and terrorists threatening his country - along with a big assist by Hilary Clinton - got our ambassador killed and completely destabilized Libya.

    Obama also was a traitor who committed treason when he ordered that 30 minutes warning had to be given prior to military missions for the purpose of protecting the enemy and giving them a half hour to try to figure how to kill our personnel and equipment.

  2. #802
    Sensational
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Paradise
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    47,792
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    As someone who has been through the Strait of Hormuz, this jacks up the fear level of any Sailor going through to 11 on a scale of 10. And that is the only way into the Persian Gulf. It is not a trivial attack at all with "only" consequences I hear/see some Trump supporters talking about. Going through there was scary in 2000/2003. It would be terrifying to go through now as we are a huge target and they could certainly use the attack on their general to justify an attack on us, claiming we are invading their sovereign waterways (they've been trying to claim greater than 12 nautical miles for decades) and we escalated.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
    And this is why you now support the Iranian government's vow to assassinate our president and attack the United States, correct? In your view, the safest thing to do is to allow Iran to kill any Americans they want to anywhere with totally immunity because you figure you are so irrelevant they won't kill you?

    Cowardice is never a successful defense, though a lot of Democrats think it is, just like they think the safest way to protect yourself against assault, rape and murder is to be totally disarmed and unable to defend yourself by outlawing firearms so only criminals have them.

  3. #803
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rolesville, NC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    33,929

    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    And this is why you now support the Iranian government's vow to assassinate our president and attack the United States, correct? In your view, the safest thing to do is to allow Iran to kill any Americans they want to anywhere with totally immunity because you figure you are so irrelevant they won't kill you?

    Cowardice is never a successful defense, though a lot of Democrats think it is, just like they think the safest way to protect yourself against assault, rape and murder is to be totally disarmed and unable to defend yourself by outlawing firearms so only criminals have them.
    Irrational ranting much?

    Nowhere in my post did I mention supporting Iran or even feeling sorry for their generals death. But I recognize that consequences come from actions, and irrational, ill advised actions generally result in dire consequences, particularly to those in the middle of the conflicts.

    I certainly don't see any of Trumps children serving on those ships going through the Strait, or any other Armed Service.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #804
    Guru
    Mithros's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:17 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,724

    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Don't be ridiculous. President Obama ordered more bombings and attacks without Congressional approval - more countries than any president since WW2.


    Countries bombed by the U.S. under Obama administration - CNNPolitics

    For Libya, it was outright war specifically to overthrow the government, kill the leader and kill the leader's family. There was no Congressional authorization to go to war against Libya nor the other bombings, other than the general vast war powers of the president.

    The Democratic party and so many of their minions so incessantly and hypocritically lie it is a very real and dangerous psychosis that essentially is suicidal in nature.
    I'm not going to defend every bombing by the Obama administration as being wise or moral, but they are broadly justifiable under the 2001 and 2002 AUMF's. None of these actions are remotely comparable to Trumps. And before you go around calling people hypocritical, psychotic, and suicidal I suggest you form a cogent justification of Trump's actions under the 2001 and 2002 AUMFs.

    Here is a a comprehensive list of all of the bombings by the Obama administration complete with the broad AUMF justification. The justification might not be good, but it exists.
    • Afghanistan: The war in Afghanistan was expressly authorized by the 2001 AUMF. It is not over. (sadly)
    • Pakistan: Strikes in Pakistan targeted non-state AlQada millitants largely from Afghanistan and in general with permission from the Pakistani's (not that every case was approved ahead of time) Thus Covered by the 2001 AUMF
    • Libya: Coalition led effort which the US aided to enforce UN resolution. Conservatives condemned Obama for "leading from behind". Thus the attacks were not directed by the US and relied instead on UN authority.
    • Somalia: Drones targeted al Shabaab, a terrorist group that has pledged allegience to Al Qaeda and consequently covered by the 2001 AUMF
    • Iraq: Obama attacked ISIS militants with the broad support of the Iraqi government. Fighting ISIS is the weakest argument, but the fight against ISIS has been broadly defended under a combination of the the 2001 AUMF and 2002 AUMF's as both IDF and al Qaeda's scion.
    • Syria: ISIS militants in Syria were fought under the broad authority argued for in Iraq. Attacks against the Syrian government were deemed to require congressional authorization, which congress denied.



    Iran is a sovereign nation, not a non-state actor. Soleimani is a very high ranking government official. He's the equivalent of Mike Pence or Mitch McConnell. Iraq is a sovereign nation, and an ally. Baghdad is a capital city of a sovereign state and an ally. Killing Soleimani is the equivalent of Iran assassinating Mike Pence in Charles De Gaul in Paris or King Khalid in Riyahd Saudi Arabia. It is so ridiculously provocative, illegal, stupid, dangerous, poorly thought out, asinine, etc.. that it is difficult to pick just a few reasons why it was a bad idea. When an intellectual genius [/sarcasm] like Rand Paul looks at this and thinks that a child would understand that this is not going to end up well, you start to run out of excuses.

    I am sick and tired of people who have no concept of what military sacrifice actually entails throwing around the possibility of war like it's no big deal. Every single person who supports and defends this is culpable. You think peace is the natural way of things? You think war won't affect you because so far you've been able to send other peoples kids off to die? You think it's fine because the collateral damage is in a place you don't care about? Terrorists have limited resources and they're pretty damned effective. What do you think an actual nation is capable of?

  5. #805
    Sage
    ElChupacabra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    The Garden State
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,233

    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Irrational ranting much?

    Nowhere in my post did I mention supporting Iran or even feeling sorry for their generals death. But I recognize that consequences come from actions, and irrational, ill advised actions generally result in dire consequences, particularly to those in the middle of the conflicts.

    I certainly don't see any of Trumps children serving on those ships going through the Strait, or any other Armed Service.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
    That's confirmed when the Pentagon has to issue its own statement essentially negating the president's targets.

  6. #806
    Conservatarian

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,073

    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    ...

    Iran is a sovereign nation, not a non-state actor. Soleimani is a very high ranking government official. He's the equivalent of Mike Pence or Mitch McConnell. Iraq is a sovereign nation, and an ally. Baghdad is a capital city of a sovereign state and an ally. Killing Soleimani is the equivalent of Iran assassinating Mike Pence in Charles De Gaul in Paris or King Khalid in Riyahd Saudi Arabia. It is so ridiculously provocative, illegal, stupid, dangerous, poorly thought out, asinine, etc.. that it is difficult to pick just a few reasons why it was a bad idea. When an intellectual genius [/sarcasm] like Rand Paul looks at this and thinks that a child would understand that this is not going to end up well, you start to run out of excuses.

    I am sick and tired of people who have no concept of what military sacrifice actually entails throwing around the possibility of war like it's no big deal. Every single person who supports and defends this is culpable. You think peace is the natural way of things? You think war won't affect you because so far you've been able to send other peoples kids off to die? You think it's fine because the collateral damage is in a place you don't care about? Terrorists have limited resources and they're pretty damned effective. What do you think an actual nation is capable of?
    Your desire to muddy the waters with blatant mischaracterizations and false analogies regarding Soleimani isn't going to help persuade people of your anti-war points. Rather, it only persuades others that your "humane" agenda is not what you'd like us to believe.

    So let's be real, Soleimani was a high ranking political official within the borders of Iran, but he was also a General inside and outside of Iraq directing his Quds Force, a separate unit of the IRGC engaging in “unconventional warfare” and ” extraterritorial operations.” As a military commander he was engaged in warfare outside the borders of his own country, directly causing the deaths of many people, including Iraqis and American military troops. Moreover, the General of the Quds Force commanded a terrorist organization, as fully recognized by the United States, Canada, Egypt and many other nations.

    So no, Soleimani was not like Mike Pence or Mitch McConnel, two elected civilian Congressional politicians in the United States. And it is rather dumb to even try to make that analogy as it self-evident to all.

    Bottom line, when you are a general and enter other counties to conduct war, directly or by proxy against the US and its allies, and you are commanding leadership in the battle zone you can get killed by those who you've been killing.

    That ain't sad, it's the delivery of a long overdue reality.
    Last edited by maxparrish; 01-07-20 at 04:58 PM.

  7. #807
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    8,113

    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    Your desire to muddy the waters with blatant mischaracterizations and false analogies regarding Soleimani isn't going to help persuade people of your anti-war points. Rather, it only persuades others that your "humane" agenda is not what you'd like us to believe.

    So let's be real, Soleimani was a high ranking political official within the borders of Iran, but he was also a General in (and outside of Iraq directing his Quds Force, a separate unit of the IRGC engaging in “unconventional warfare” and ” extraterritorial operations.” As a military commander he was engaged in warfare outside the borders of his own country, directly causing the deaths of many people, including Iraqis and American military troops. Moreover, the General of the Quds Force commanded a terrorist organization, as fully recognized by the United States, Canada, Egypt and many other nations.

    So no, Soleimani was not like Mike Pence or Mitch McConnel, two elected civilian Congressional politicians in the United States. And it is rather dumb to even try to make that analogy as it self-evident to all.

    Bottom line, when you are a general and enter other counties to conduct war, directly or by proxy against the US and its allies, and you are commanding leadership in the battle zone you can get killed by those who you've been killing all along.

    That ain't sad, it's the delivery of an overdue reality.
    The issue isn’t really whether or not Soleimani deserved to die but how such a thing should be carried out. If you want to assassinate such a high profile person then you do it quietly and make it look like an accident. You don’t bomb them in broad daylight at a civilian airport and then jump on Twitter to take credit for it. Americans are going to die not because Soleimani is dead but because Donald Trump just had to feed his ego with a public assassination and a Tweet.

  8. #808
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    90,892

    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    The issue isn’t really whether or not Soleimani deserved to die but how such a thing should be carried out. If you want to assassinate such a high profile person then you do it quietly and make it look like an accident. You don’t bomb them in broad daylight at a civilian airport and then jump on Twitter to take credit for it. Americans are going to die not because Soleimani is dead but because Donald Trump just had to feed his ego with a public assassination and a Tweet.
    Your opinion noted, where was your opinion when ACTUAL Americans have died due to Soleimani? Where is your outrage over Iran being a state sponsor of terrorism? Where is your outrage over an Iranian General inside another nation directing attacks on Americans and the American Embassy?? Right, no such outrage, just more anti American and anti Trump rhetoric

  9. #809
    Conservatarian

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,073

    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    The issue isn’t really whether or not Soleimani deserved to die but how such a thing should be carried out. If you want to assassinate such a high profile person then you do it quietly and make it look like an accident. You don’t bomb them in broad daylight at a civilian airport and then jump on Twitter to take credit for it. Americans are going to die not because Soleimani is dead but because Donald Trump just had to feed his ego with a public assassination and a Tweet.
    First, its not an assassination in the sense usually defined.

    Second, I'm all for covert operations to kill scum in transnational locations - but you take what you can get. Not only would there be greater accusations of violating the laws against such covert actions but the US has never be adept at this kind of work. We don't have the competence or skill of the Mossad.

  10. #810
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    8,113

    Re: Pelosi says Trump carried out strike on Iranian commander without authorization and she wants de

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Your opinion noted, where was your opinion when ACTUAL Americans have died due to Soleimani? Where is your outrage over Iran being a state sponsor of terrorism? Where is your outrage over an Iranian General inside another nation directing attacks on Americans and the American Embassy?? Right, no such outrage, just more anti American and anti Trump rhetoric
    Your whataboutism is noted. What Iran has done is not an excuse for putting American lives at risk for no reason other than to satisfy the President’s ego.

Page 81 of 91 FirstFirst ... 31717980818283 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •