• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Germans Consider Trump More Dangerous Than Putin, Kim Jong-un: Poll

Germany is perhaps the most important member state of the European Union and a NATO ally. That so many Germans consider Donald Trump to be dangerous to world peace should cause concern to Americans. Germans must be wondering if someone who acts afraid of Vladimir Putin and describes Kim Jong-Un as a friend as well as an admirer of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is now a U.S. president, perhaps it is time for Europe to become more self-reliant and less under the thumb of the American Executive.
 
dave8383 said:
The Germans are right because with the damage Putin, Iran, etc. have done, will do, along the destruction of our relation with our allies, thanks to Trump, we are all in a very bad place. Positiver leadrship is, of course, highly important and today the world is missing it.
Click to expand...

CLAX1911
Who cares what Germany thinks?
Click to expand...

Fletch
NOt sure that we needed to poll to prove that there are a lot of stupid Germans.
Click to expand...


RetiredUSN
They love our carriers though.
Click to expand...

The quote from Dave8383 and the net three shows a stark difference in the way Americans see the role of the United States in the world. The same people who didn't and never would vote for him not so strangely loathe his foreign policy. It has been 3 years and we have had no major conflicts and for that matter the situation in the Middle East is much better than when Obama was at the helm. People have short memories but hopefully will recall how strong ISIS was while Obama was there and Trump has put a major dent in their influence and mayhem. Trump conducted a trade war that he is winning. Yesterday there was a story of 1 TRILLION dollars being repatriated to America, reversing a trend that NO president before him dared to deal with because they wanted to be liked by other countries. Trump doesn't CARE if Germany, France, Russia, China, Syria or any other country likes him or not. He is not in a popularity contest with other leaders or for the love and affection of liberals, progressives or socialists and he is the first president who is unafraid to tell it like it is.

Germany is not someone who has any room to talk. That country is pretty much ruined now by Merkel taking in millions of Muslims and there is no turning back. Obama was loved the world over because he was a globalist who was more intent of fixing other countries than he was in fixing America. Who wouldn't love a president who was a pushover? It is natural that countries like Germany would not like Trump because he pretty much said that Germany was not that much of a friend to America anyway. Does anyone here actually think that Putin cares how the United States sees him? Does anyone here think for a second that the president of China cares how America sees HIM?

Being president is NOT a popularity contest with other foreign leaders or even with every political party in the United States. You cannot, nor should you, please everyone. Your duty is to do what is best for AMERICA first and then when we are financially stable and solid,we can look into what we can do for other countries. This attitude doesn't sit well with other countries who have not paid their fair share for their own defense and who took advantage of us in trade. Like petulant teenagers, they didn't like their allowance taken away and the tough love of Trump. Foreign aid MUST come with strings just like giving your teenager an allowance. They must show they deserve it and need it and it must be in AMERICAS best interest.
 
Gondwanaland said:
I mean, they also gave the world a dude named Adolf Hitler, so...... maybe not the folks to listen to on who is dangerous.
Click to expand...

So, they have experience with that kind of personality type.
 
lemmiwinx said:
Germans considered Hitler less threatening than we do Greta Thunberg. Think about that for a moment.
Click to expand...

I did.

It’s a perfect reflection of the small minded parochialism of the talk radio right wing.
 
RAMOSS said:
So, they have experience with that kind of personality type.
Click to expand...

Yes, they do.

And those Germans who are familiar with the details of Hitler’s rise to power have little trouble seeing the obvious similarities in the rise of Donald Trump.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From New York - The Intelligencer

Germans Consider Trump More Dangerous Than Putin, Kim Jong-un: Poll
​

On July 11, 2018, President Trump upended the early talks of a NATO summit in Brussels when he claimed that Germany was “controlled by Russia,” shortly before appearing next to Vladimir Putin and claiming that he didn’t “see any reason why” Russia would have interfered in the 2016 election. Later that day, Trump did his least to undo the damage in a press conference with German chancellor Angela Merkel, saying, “We have a very, very good relationship with the chancellor. We have a tremendous relationship with Germany.”

Apparently not: According to a new YouGov poll, Germans consider the American president to be more dangerous than Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-un, Xi Jinping, or Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Of those surveyed, 41 percent said that they considered Trump a greater threat to world peace than any other head of state; Kim Jong-un came in second with 17 percent, followed by Putin and Khamenei with 8 percent, and Xi with 7 percent.

The poll helps reveal the harm the Trump administration has done to America’s reputation with one of its closest and most important allies. But as New York contributor Jonah Shepp notes, there’s reason for the administration’s damage to U.S. stock, and reason to think its effects will be long-lasting:

COMMENT:-

In politics what is "real" is of less importance than what people BELIEVE.
​
Click to expand...

The German people seem to be no less susceptible to propaganda now than in the the 30's.

Can you imagine the level of indoctrination these results of public opinion polling must represent?
 
TomFitz said:
Yes, they do.

And those Germans who are familiar with the details of Hitler’s rise to power have little trouble seeing the obvious similarities in the rise of Donald Trump.
Click to expand...

:lamo

Trump is trying to get the US out of these long time wars.

Similarities with Hitler..........my god you are really unhinged.
 
Dear Your Highness, the most excellent Mr. Putin,

You are better than Trump. Please don't turn the gas off.

With love,

The German People
 
Sabre said:
IF, one leads with a negative figure that is likely the only one remembered.
What if the article said that Germans Consider Trump Less Dangerous Than Putin, Kim Jong-un. Of those surveyed, 59 percent said that they considered Trump a lesser threat than .....................
It would be a true statement based on the article presented but, would leave a different impression remembered.
Click to expand...

If, if, if. However it didn't say that but nice try defending the indefensible.
 
Sabre said:
Well must be my poor math: "Of those surveyed, 41 percent said that they considered Trump a greater threat to world peace than any other head of state" With poor mathematics would mean that 59 percent did not consider him to be a greater threat to world peace than any other head of state.

No need to play games with ranking, does not matter how you slice and dice it take it in total, not as individual rankings. Total of all considered 41 percent yes, 59 percent no, equals 100 percent accounted for.
Click to expand...

What's the complaint? Do you complain this way when a vote goes 41-59 here in america and the 41 wins. How about the presidential election where hillary beat trump by a few million votes, did you complain then?
 
Paradoxical said:
The quote from Dave8383 and the net three shows a stark difference in the way Americans see the role of the United States in the world. The same people who didn't and never would vote for him not so strangely loathe his foreign policy. It has been 3 years and we have had no major conflicts and for that matter the situation in the Middle East is much better than when Obama was at the helm. People have short memories but hopefully will recall how strong ISIS was while Obama was there and Trump has put a major dent in their influence and mayhem. Trump conducted a trade war that he is winning. Yesterday there was a story of 1 TRILLION dollars being repatriated to America, reversing a trend that NO president before him dared to deal with because they wanted to be liked by other countries. Trump doesn't CARE if Germany, France, Russia, China, Syria or any other country likes him or not. He is not in a popularity contest with other leaders or for the love and affection of liberals, progressives or socialists and he is the first president who is unafraid to tell it like it is.

Germany is not someone who has any room to talk. That country is pretty much ruined now by Merkel taking in millions of Muslims and there is no turning back. Obama was loved the world over because he was a globalist who was more intent of fixing other countries than he was in fixing America. Who wouldn't love a president who was a pushover? It is natural that countries like Germany would not like Trump because he pretty much said that Germany was not that much of a friend to America anyway. Does anyone here actually think that Putin cares how the United States sees him? Does anyone here think for a second that the president of China cares how America sees HIM?

Being president is NOT a popularity contest with other foreign leaders or even with every political party in the United States. You cannot, nor should you, please everyone. Your duty is to do what is best for AMERICA first and then when we are financially stable and solid,we can look into what we can do for other countries. This attitude doesn't sit well with other countries who have not paid their fair share for their own defense and who took advantage of us in trade. Like petulant teenagers, they didn't like their allowance taken away and the tough love of Trump. Foreign aid MUST come with strings just like giving your teenager an allowance. They must show they deserve it and need it and it must be in AMERICAS best interest.
Click to expand...

That is true.

Dave’s post reflects the view of Trump’s incompetence, corruption and disloyalty is viewed in most of the world.

And viewed with particular alarm by our traditional allies, Europe, Japan, South Korea and most of south east Asia.

Trump has casually and carelessly discarded the legacy of world leadership that had emerged at the end of WWII. The world order my dad fought for.

In its place, is a cartoonish, poorly informed, parochial xenophobia that Trump plays to.

There is no real coordinated policy. But there is a steady drift into 19th century isolationism. isolationism of the sort that produced trade wars and eventually fueled the march toward two world wars.

This is an extraordinary betrayal. Donald Trump is betraying everything this country has stood for in my lifetime.

And he has nothing to show for it.

Vladimir Putin, on the other hand, is riding high.

The US is weaker economically, far deeper in debt (and for no reason other than to pay off another Trump constituency, Wall Street), distrusted and feared by its allies, disrespected and pushed around by our traditional rivals.
 
TomFitz said:
That is true.

Dave’s post reflects the view of Trump’s incompetence, corruption and disloyalty is viewed in most of the world.

And viewed with particular alarm by our traditional allies, Europe, Japan, South Korea and most of south east Asia.

Trump has casually and carelessly discarded the legacy of world leadership that had emerged at the end of WWII. The world order my dad fought for.

In its place, is a cartoonish, poorly informed, parochial xenophobia that Trump plays to.

There is no real coordinated policy. But there is a steady drift into 19th century isolationism. isolationism of the sort that produced trade wars and eventually fueled the march toward two world wars.

This is an extraordinary betrayal. Donald Trump is betraying everything this country has stood for in my lifetime.

And he has nothing to show for it.

Vladimir Putin, on the other hand, is riding high.

The US is weaker economically, far deeper in debt (and for no reason other than to pay off another Trump constituency, Wall Street), distrusted and feared by its allies, disrespected and pushed around by our traditional rivals.
Click to expand...

His policies are far better than the globalist polices of his predecessor who trusted every other country.I don't believe Europe was ever to be trusted. As far as Japan and South Korea, you're mad if you think they aren't still our good allies. Globalism is a failure. America FIRST and not LAST is what we need and want.
 
Sabre said:
IF, one leads with a negative figure that is likely the only one remembered.
What if the article said that Germans Consider Trump Less Dangerous Than Putin, Kim Jong-un. Of those surveyed, 59 percent said that they considered Trump a lesser threat than .....................
It would be a true statement based on the article presented but, would leave a different impression remembered.
Click to expand...

Indeed, and 83% considered Kim Jong-Un less of a threat than the remainder of the list.

And 92% considered Putin to be less of a threat than the remainder of the list.

And 92% considered Khamenei to be less of a threat than the remainder of the list.

And 93% considered Xi to be less of a threat than the remainder of the list.

The true statement, that you would like to ignore, is that a higher percentage of Germans consider Mr. Trump to be a threat to the world than consider any other person to be a threat to the world.
 
Paradoxical said:
The quote from Dave8383 and the net three shows a stark difference in the way Americans see the role of the United States in the world. The same people who didn't and never would vote for him not so strangely loathe his foreign policy. It has been 3 years and we have had no major conflicts and for that matter the situation in the Middle East is much better than when Obama was at the helm. People have short memories but hopefully will recall how strong ISIS was while Obama was there and Trump has put a major dent in their influence and mayhem. Trump conducted a trade war that he is winning. Yesterday there was a story of 1 TRILLION dollars being repatriated to America, reversing a trend that NO president before him dared to deal with because they wanted to be liked by other countries. Trump doesn't CARE if Germany, France, Russia, China, Syria or any other country likes him or not. He is not in a popularity contest with other leaders or for the love and affection of liberals, progressives or socialists and he is the first president who is unafraid to tell it like it is.

Germany is not someone who has any room to talk. That country is pretty much ruined now by Merkel taking in millions of Muslims and there is no turning back. Obama was loved the world over because he was a globalist who was more intent of fixing other countries than he was in fixing America. Who wouldn't love a president who was a pushover? It is natural that countries like Germany would not like Trump because he pretty much said that Germany was not that much of a friend to America anyway. Does anyone here actually think that Putin cares how the United States sees him? Does anyone here think for a second that the president of China cares how America sees HIM?

Being president is NOT a popularity contest with other foreign leaders or even with every political party in the United States. You cannot, nor should you, please everyone. Your duty is to do what is best for AMERICA first and then when we are financially stable and solid,we can look into what we can do for other countries. This attitude doesn't sit well with other countries who have not paid their fair share for their own defense and who took advantage of us in trade. Like petulant teenagers, they didn't like their allowance taken away and the tough love of Trump. Foreign aid MUST come with strings just like giving your teenager an allowance. They must show they deserve it and need it and it must be in AMERICAS best interest.
Click to expand...

What about:

Jim Mattis: 'Nations With Allies Thrive, Nations Without Allies Wither'

September 2, 20197:44 AM ET

Jim Mattis: 'Nations With Allies Thrive, Nations Without Allies Wither' : NPR
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Bergslagstroll said:
It's just not Germans that see US as an increasing threath.

"Still, in 18 of the 22 countries, there were statistically significant increases in the share of people who see American power and influence as a major threat between 2013 and 2018. That includes increases of 30 percentage points in Germany, 29 points in France, and 26 points in Brazil and Mexico. And while these shares rose substantially in many countries after Trump’s election, they increased further in several nations between Trump’s first and second year in office."

US power and influence increasingly seen as major threat to countries | Pew Research Center
Click to expand...

One of the most startling features of that article is

trumpthreat.jpg​


The three countries on that list that are the most similar to the US are Australia, Canada, and the UK. For those countries the percentage of the population that sees the US as "a threat" has increased by around 85.9% and now averages around 39.7%.
 
Nalu said:
I'm just spit balling here, but my guess is that plenty of the people sampled think Trump is most dangerous because he leads (sort of) the US.
Click to expand...

Which, of course, completely explains the (almost) 90% increase in the percentage of people in Australia, Canada, and the US who consider America to be "a threat"

Nalu said:
Regardless of its leader, the US has more potential to cause apocalyptic harm than Russia and North Korea.
Click to expand...

I'll give you the DPRK, but not Russia.

Nalu said:
The US just used to elect normal people as president and now doesn't.
Click to expand...

One incident does not a trend make.
 
Paradoxical said:
The quote from Dave8383 and the net three shows a stark difference in the way Americans see the role of the United States in the world. The same people who didn't and never would vote for him not so strangely loathe his foreign policy.
Click to expand...

And you would have expected them to have completely stopped their opposition to him and his policies simply because he was elected?

Paradoxical said:
It has been 3 years and we have had no major conflicts and for that matter the situation in the Middle East is much better than when Obama was at the helm.
Click to expand...

If you look at Iraq, and Syria, that statement is debatable.

Paradoxical said:
People have short memories but hopefully will recall how strong ISIS was while Obama was there and Trump has put a major dent in their influence and mayhem.
Click to expand...

Indeed, and the Turks, Russians, Iranians, Kurds, and Syrians had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Paradoxical said:
Trump conducted a trade war that he is winning.
Click to expand...

Please define "winning".

Paradoxical said:
Yesterday there was a story of 1 TRILLION dollars being repatriated to America, reversing a trend that NO president before him dared to deal with because they wanted to be liked by other countries.
Click to expand...

Indeed, by allowing the companies to have a 50% "one time" reduction in taxes, Mr. Trump has convinced them to bring back 25% of what he said they would bring back.

Not only that, but "Fed Study: Trump Tariffs" shows how successful his overall strategy to win the trade wars has been.

Paradoxical said:
Trump doesn't CARE if Germany, France, Russia, China, Syria or any other country likes him or not. He is not in a popularity contest with other leaders or for the love and affection of liberals, progressives or socialists and he is the first president who is unafraid to tell it like it is.
Click to expand...

Since Mr. Trump frequently makes diametrically opposed statements about the same subject in the same day, it is - indeed - quite possible that he does "tell it like it is". The problem is working out which version of "it is" is actually the one where he does "tell it like it is".

Paradoxical said:
Germany is not someone who has any room to talk. That country is pretty much ruined now by Merkel taking in millions of Muslims and there is no turning back.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am sure that you would be overjoyed to see Germany implement "The Final Solution to the Muslim Problem".
 
Paradoxical said:
Obama was loved the world over because he was a globalist who was more intent of fixing other countries than he was in fixing America.
Click to expand...

Have you considered the fact that the absolute stonewalling by the Republican Party just might have convinced him that he could do more good for America by improving the rest of the world then he could by continually butting heads with buttheads?

Paradoxical said:
Who wouldn't love a president who was a pushover?
Click to expand...

Indeed, the Russians, Iranians, (North) Koreans, and Syrians all love Mr. Trump.

Paradoxical said:
It is natural that countries like Germany would not like Trump because he pretty much said that Germany was not that much of a friend to America anyway.
Click to expand...

Actually Mr. Trump has "pretty much said" that NO country is a friend to America - ESPECIALLY any country that does not agree to trade arrangements which guarantee that ALL of the profit will accrue to American companies.

Paradoxical said:
Does anyone here actually think that Putin cares how the United States sees him?
Click to expand...

Yes he does. It doesn't mean that he has any intention of changing what he ACTUALLY is, only that he is quite careful to ensure that he is PERCEIVED in the manner he wants to be perceived.

Paradoxical said:
Does anyone here think for a second that the president of China cares how America sees HIM?
Click to expand...

See "Putin" above.

Paradoxical said:
Being president is NOT a popularity contest with other foreign leaders or even with every political party in the United States. You cannot, nor should you, please everyone.
Click to expand...

And it isn't necessarily a good idea to do your damnedest to ensure that everyone thinks that you are an arrogant, untrustworthy, capricious, fool, either.

Paradoxical said:
Your duty is to do what is best for AMERICA first and then when we are financially stable and solid,we can look into what we can do for other countries.
Click to expand...

Indeed, and making it 100% clear that you have absolutely no concern over whether what you are demanding every other country does is in the best interests of any country other than the United States of America REGARDLESS of the consequences to those other countries is an absolutely marvellous way of achieving that goal.

Paradoxical said:
This attitude doesn't sit well with other countries who have not paid their fair share for their own defense ...
Click to expand...

You are aware, aren't you, that the per capita amount that the US spends on NATO (as opposed to the amount it spends on global military matters) is exceeded by the per capita amount that EIGHT other NATO countries spend on NATO?

Or are you simply parroting the party line?

Paradoxical said:
... and who took advantage of us in trade.
Click to expand...

You mean by engaging in capitalist competition and selling better for less?

Paradoxical said:
Like petulant teenagers, they didn't like their allowance taken away and the tough love of Trump.
Click to expand...

"Petulant teenagers" is a very good description, unfortunately it applies more to Mr. Trump than any other leader on the world stage today.

Paradoxical said:
Foreign aid MUST come with strings just like giving your teenager an allowance.
Click to expand...

It probably will come as a surprise to you that it already does. Almost all "foreign aid" comes with the stipulation that the major portion of it be spend to buy American products.

Paradoxical said:
They must show they deserve it and need it ...
Click to expand...

That would be quite a chance in policy since the traditional criteria has always been "Will they do what we tell them to do?".

Paradoxical said:
...and it must be in AMERICAS best interest.
Click to expand...

Sort of like "Don't give to charity unless you have a guarantee that it will get you into heaven." - right?
 
Paradoxical said:
His policies are far better than the globalist polices of his predecessor who trusted every other country.I don't believe Europe was ever to be trusted. As far as Japan and South Korea, you're mad if you think they aren't still our good allies. Globalism is a failure. America FIRST and not LAST is what we need and want.
Click to expand...

Thank you for making my point.

What you call globalism spared the world of another world war for three quarters of a century. What you call globalism fueled a significant rise in the standard of living for every person on the planet. What you call globalism fueled an explosion in agriculture, vast improvements in public health worldwide.

Once upon a time the President of the United States spoke with a voice that Bill Clinton refereed to as “first among equals”. While some of the equals groused, no one denied it.

Today, Trump is feared, ridiculed, and mistrusted.

He worked hard to dishonor us this way.

What’s sad is that there are people who actually cheer this ignominious retreat.
 
code1211 said:
The German people seem to be no less susceptible to propaganda now than in the the 30's.

Can you imagine the level of indoctrination these results of public opinion polling must represent?
Click to expand...

"Indoctrination" is the term used to describe the thinking of people that don't believe exactly the same way as you do.
 
The Germans are right.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Which, of course, completely explains the (almost) 90% increase in the percentage of people in Australia, Canada, and the US who consider America to be "a threat"



I'll give you the DPRK, but not Russia.



One incident does not a trend make.
Click to expand...

The US is far more capable of annihilating the world than Russia is.

I didn't say anything about a trend. I said now the US doesn't elect normal people.
 
TomFitz said:
Thank you for making my point.

What you call globalism spared the world of another world war for three quarters of a century. What you call globalism fueled a significant rise in the standard of living for every person on the planet. What you call globalism fueled an explosion in agriculture, vast improvements in public health worldwide.

Once upon a time the President of the United States spoke with a voice that Bill Clinton refereed to as “first among equals”. While some of the equals groused, no one denied it.

Today, Trump is feared, ridiculed, and mistrusted.

He worked hard to dishonor us this way.

What’s sad is that there are people who actually cheer this ignominious retreat.
Click to expand...

We escaped the Obama years of apology, malaise and discontent. He made Carter look like a good president. He was the president of low expectations and when the divisive phrase "white privilege" took hold and when it was OK to stomp America's flag and have it fashionable for us to believe that most all cops were racist. He wanted America to take a back seat to the rest of the world as an apology for our previous imperialistic ways. He learned this from his Muslim grandfather in Kenya. He envisioned himself president of the world and so did the leftists in other countries
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom