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Iowa man who sets LGBTQ flag on fire gets over 15 years in prison

I do have to admit that my mind occasionally works more subtly/deviously (pick one only) than the minds of others.

Of course, that's the reason why people paid me good money to think about their problems.

Thinking too long about anything can alter the resulting wisdom.
 
The operating definition in US politics today is

DIFFERENT - "Something that is absolutely identical to something that 'THEIR SIDE' does and which I condemn but which is done by 'MY SIDE'."

That is probably right.

It definitely has nothing to do with what I posted.
 
I do not hate conservatives. No idea where you got that idea from. Are you telling me that I hate conservatives in my family? And you should know that I have a problem with some of conservatives' policies and tactics.

This is a classic diversion from the actual discussion. "You hate conservatives." "You have TDS." And so on.

I may be wrong about that being a belief of yours.

I apologize for making that observation and for any offense to which you were subjected.

I will hope to find evidence in your future posts to confirm or dismiss the motivations creating my observation.
 
I may be wrong about that being a belief of yours.

I apologize for making that observation and for any offense to which you were subjected.

I will hope to find evidence in your future posts to confirm or dismiss the motivations creating my observation.

I have not once indicated that I hate conservatives. It's pretty strange for you to "observe" that.

Besides, you and I have been usually civil in our discourse.
 
Thinking too long about anything can alter the resulting wisdom.

True, "Perfection is the enemy of better.".

On the other hand, "Not bothering to think things through at all can ensure that there is no 'resulting wisdom' to alter.".
 
That is probably right.

It definitely has nothing to do with what I posted.

Really?

You mean that it wasn't you that posted

Are you looking for a definition of "different"?

I don't understand your question.
 
I have not once indicated that I hate conservatives. It's pretty strange for you to "observe" that.

Besides, you and I have been usually civil in our discourse.

Are you asking me to apologize again?
 
True, "Perfection is the enemy of better.".

On the other hand, "Not bothering to think things through at all can ensure that there is no 'resulting wisdom' to alter.".

Absolutely.
 
Really?

You mean that it wasn't you that posted

Are you looking for a definition of "different"?

I don't understand your question.

Here is what I posted previous to the question:

"Defending a victim and condemning the perpetrator are different things."
 
Here is what I posted previous to the question:

"Defending a victim and condemning the perpetrator are different things."

Indeed you did, and then you went on to ask if another poster wanted a definition of "different".

I provided you with the actual, currently operative, definition of "different" as it is used in today's political discussions and the operating definition in US politics today IS

DIFFERENT - "Something that is absolutely identical to something that 'THEIR SIDE' does and which I condemn but which is done by 'MY SIDE'."

Once you have internalized that definition then the position of the vociferous partisans on BOTH sides of the debate between "The MORE Reactionary Wing of the American Oligarchic Capitalist Party" and "The LESS Reactionary Wing of the American Oligarchic Capitalist Party" when they chorus

But, but - but ... That's DIFFERENT!!!

becomes much clearer.
 
Here is what I posted previous to the question:

"Defending a victim and condemning the perpetrator are different things."

It is indeed possible to defend the accused and victims at the same time. But we don't see that here. And if she said she defends Bill Cosby, what would you think the reactions be?
 
Indeed you did, and then you went on to ask if another poster wanted a definition of "different".

I provided you with the actual, currently operative, definition of "different" as it is used in today's political discussions and the operating definition in US politics today IS

DIFFERENT - "Something that is absolutely identical to something that 'THEIR SIDE' does and which I condemn but which is done by 'MY SIDE'."

Once you have internalized that definition then the position of the vociferous partisans on BOTH sides of the debate between "The MORE Reactionary Wing of the American Oligarchic Capitalist Party" and "The LESS Reactionary Wing of the American Oligarchic Capitalist Party" when they chorus

But, but - but ... That's DIFFERENT!!!

becomes much clearer.

You are posting ideas that might be intended intended to be humor. I don't know why you are doing this.
 
It is indeed possible to defend the accused and victims at the same time. But we don't see that here. And if she said she defends Bill Cosby, what would you think the reactions be?

Probably so.

Is that what she did?
 
What would he have gotten if he had stole a flag from the American Legion and burnt it? Something is out of kilter here.

Iowa man who sets LGBTQ flag on fire gets over 15 years in prison | Fox News



He faced a maximum of five years in prison for the hate crime and arson charge and a maximum of a year and month for the other two charges, according to Iowa sentencing guidelines. Court records list him as a habitual offender, allowing him to be sentenced to a longer prison term.

LGBTQ flag-burning: Iowa man sentenced for church banner fire




So he's a habitual criminal who committed other crimes as well.
 
You are posting ideas that might be intended intended to be humor. I don't know why you are doing this.

Satire IS, indeed, a form of humour.

Unfortunately, it is a fact that the actual, currently operative, definition of "different" as it is used in today's political discussions and the operating definition in US politics today IS

DIFFERENT - "Something that is absolutely identical to something that 'THEIR SIDE' does and which I condemn but which is done by 'MY SIDE'."

and it is also a fact that a goodly percentage of the American people actually believe that

But, but - but ... That's DIFFERENT!!!

and

"Is too."

"Is TOO."

"IS TOO."

"IS TOO."

"IS TOO!"

"IS TOO!!!"

"IIIISSSSSS TTTTOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!"

actually constitute "logical" arguments (at least when "THEIR Guys" use them) and that is not in the least bit humourous.
 
He faced a maximum of five years in prison for the hate crime and arson charge and a maximum of a year and month for the other two charges, according to Iowa sentencing guidelines. Court records list him as a habitual offender, allowing him to be sentenced to a longer prison term.

LGBTQ flag-burning: Iowa man sentenced for church banner fire




So he's a habitual criminal who committed other crimes as well.

That, of course, is totally irrelevant to those who want to defend this poor, oppressed, (White) victim of socialistic political correctness in defence of unspeakable acts that are against God's Law.
 
What would he have gotten if he had stole a flag from the American Legion and burnt it? Something is out of kilter here.

Iowa man who sets LGBTQ flag on fire gets over 15 years in prison | Fox News

First, it was a hate crime arson offense, along the same lines of burning a cross a black family's front lawn in order to frighten them into moving away from a white community before further violence ensues. Second, he was a habitual offender, and thankfully Iowa has "Habitual Offender" sentencing guidelines in place which essentially triple the maximum sentence.

I wish California would go back to doing the same thing. The longer people like this are kept off our streets, the better and safer our society becomes.
 
First, it was a hate crime arson offense, along the same lines of burning a cross a black family's front lawn in order to frighten them into moving away from a white community before further violence ensues. Second, he was a habitual offender, and thankfully Iowa has "Habitual Offender" sentencing guidelines in place which essentially triple the maximum sentence.

I wish California would go back to doing the same thing. The longer people like this are kept off our streets, the better and safer our society becomes.

He lit the flag on fire outside of a strip club... not some LGBT person's house while their family huddled together in fear of their lives.

...and Hate Crimes are bull****. They demean the same types of offences committed against non-LGBT people.
 
He lit the flag on fire outside of a strip club... not some LGBT person's house while their family huddled together in fear of their lives.

...and Hate Crimes are bull****. They demean the same types of offences committed against non-LGBT people.

There was a time when I would have agreed that Hate Crime laws were nonsensical, but I do think they have their place in order, Bodhisattva. And whether or not I agree with them, they are active laws on the books, and this man literally fulfilled all the requirements to be charged with a hate crime enhancement, openly admitting that he did this because he hated gay people and he wanted to "burn down their pride." He was sentenced to the maximum (five years) because he showed no remorse, and because he was a repeat felony offender his sentence was tripled.

Speaking as someone who believes the purpose of criminal justice is both punishment and restraint, I believe that our society is made incrementally better the more people like Adolfo Martinez are taken off the streets and handed maximum sentences like this.
 
He lit the flag on fire outside of a strip club... not some LGBT person's house while their family huddled together in fear of their lives.

...and Hate Crimes are bull****. They demean the same types of offences committed against non-LGBT people.

Gross ignorance and you have no clue what you're talking about. A protected class protects everyone. Everyone. Hetero, gay and in between. Cis and transgender. Christian and Muslim. Black and white.

The same offence committed against a hetero person would also be a hate crime. Every year there are hate crime convictions for crimes against white people and hetero people.

You need to learn the law. At least the basics. You know nothing about this.
 
There was a time when I would have agreed that Hate Crime laws were nonsensical, but I do think they have their place in order, Bodhisattva. And whether or not I agree with them, they are active laws on the books, and this man literally fulfilled all the requirements to be charged with a hate crime enhancement, openly admitting that he did this because he hated gay people and he wanted to "burn down their pride." He was sentenced to the maximum (five years) because he showed no remorse, and because he was a repeat felony offender his sentence was tripled.

Speaking as someone who believes the purpose of criminal justice is both punishment and restraint, I believe that our society is made incrementally better the more people like Adolfo Martinez are taken off the streets and handed maximum sentences like this.

The guy could have been shot, for all I care... my point is that killing a person because they are gay or killing a person to steal their wallet should be treated equally, as murder. Giving a Hate Crime designation to one demeans the crime that the other one had to suffer. I find that utter bull****. :shrug:
 
Gross ignorance and you have no clue what you're talking about. A protected class protects everyone. Everyone. Hetero, gay and in between. Cis and transgender. Christian and Muslim. Black and white.

The same offence committed against a hetero person would also be a hate crime. Every year there are hate crime convictions for crimes against white people and hetero people.

You need to learn the law. At least the basics. You know nothing about this.

Wrong... but nice try.
 
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