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Stocks pop as US-China tout trade progress

Obscurity said:
Uhm, each taxpayer, who would have healthcare, would pay for it. And everyone would pay for it, since unemployment is at 3.6%, thus payroll taxes will be paying into it. And we'd only be paying one time.

As it stands, the current system, medicare for the elderly will never go away. So, we are already taxed for it. Why should I pay taxes for other people's healthcare, including subsidies for health insurance companies? And then, pay premiums copays and deductibles?

Your position is counter to your conservative stance.

We should be paying the lowest rate; instead, you champion making everyone pay twice.

Makes no sense.
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Both Medicare and SS have a deficit and not enough money to fund future payments all due to both being put on budget by LBJ and used as part of the general fund. Now you want to give the bureaucrats more spending money showing that you will never hold your bureaucrats accountable for their waste, fraud, and abuse. I do not support gov't run anything other than the military which is a Constitutional requirement, healthcare is a personal responsibility issue and should be handled by state and local governments
 
Conservative said:
Both Medicare and SS have a deficit and not enough money to fund future payments all due to both being put on budget by LBJ and used as part of the general fund. Now you want to give the bureaucrats more spending money showing that you will never hold your bureaucrats accountable for their waste, fraud, and abuse. I do not support gov't run anything other than the military which is a Constitutional requirement, healthcare is a personal responsibility issue and should be handled by state and local governments
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You do realize that the costs for Medicare are high because the government is not able to barter prices, thanks to republicans right?

Also, we can hold them accountable. They can be voted out. Unlike CEO's and executives who manufacture the appearance of "competition" but just recycle their ideas by constantly moving from one company to another, ensuring the ideas are always stagnant.

As far as social security goes, go ahead - you campaign to end it. That's an extremely unpopular position.

Don't dodge me. Tell me why you want me to pay twice. Go on.
 
Conservative said:
Ask the 6.5 million new job holders if they are happy with the Trump economy?
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Most of the jobs created are service industry jobs which tend to be lower pay. Moreover, more people are working multiple jobs, artificially inflating the employment numbers. However, the employment numbers being really good actually bolsters my claim we are better off under single payer.

Everyone is paying in, and everyone is covered, and no one is paying twice for service.
 
Conservative said:
So a stock market that has grown from 19k on Inauguration Day to 28k today isn't a popping stock market? When you claim the GOP went too far right, on what issues? Do you understand that your state and local governments control social issues? when you say the GOP refuses to invest in the country, where would that be? I traveled all over the country this past year and there is infrastructure spending everywhere. Where do you get your news?

You want math taught more? Give me an example of liberal/progressive math on something like Medicare for all? Why is it that you had no problem with Obama's trillion dollar deficits four straight years?
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I spent 8 years criticizing Obama. I was a member of the GOP then. I left the GOP when Trump became the party's frontrunner.

During Obama's term I was annoyed that he succeeded in lowering the deficits, because I didn't want him to get credit. It was actually challenging criticizing him sometimes because when I would say something like "the recovery was slower under Obama than it needed to be", some snarky (and spot-on) leftwinger would say, "recovery from what", annoyingly reminding me that my president, Bush, is the one who presided over the economic freefall.

Most of Trump's numbers are on the trajectory established by Obama. Obama inherited a mess and presided over a turn-around. Trump inherited a relatively strong economy which he hasn't screwed up, in spite of him kicking farmers and manufacturers in the gonads with his trade wars. Trump's budget deficit is not on Obama's trajectory because he and the GOP raised it when they showed that their whining about debt and deficit under Obama was a big fat lie.


But, about Medicare-for-all -- add up how much we spend on premiums and out-of-pocket for medical care. Compare that to how much we would spend in taxes for Medicare-for-all. Most of us would immediately be better off. And a healthier population with less medical-related stress would be a more productive population, so that's more tax contribution and lower use of income-supplementing welfare. And a more productive, less desperate population would be a less criminal population, so that's less tax money needed for prisons. Etc. There is little downside to investing in the health of our population. One downside would be the insecurity of people in the insurance industry as we try determine good strategies to mitigate job losses there. The upsides would be many and would cascade and stimulate the economy.
 
Obscurity said:
You do realize that the costs for Medicare are high because the government is not able to barter prices, thanks to republicans right?

Also, we can hold them accountable. They can be voted out. Unlike CEO's and executives who manufacture the appearance of "competition" but just recycle their ideas by constantly moving from one company to another, ensuring the ideas are always stagnant.

As far as social security goes, go ahead - you campaign to end it. That's an extremely unpopular position.

Don't dodge me. Tell me why you want me to pay twice. Go on.
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The costs for medicare are high because there is no incentive to lower costs just like the case with everything else in Gov't. This is not a healthcare thread or medicare, start one and see where you get with it.

All I see from you is someone who has no idea what they pay in taxes and what those taxes fund, have no idea what the line items in the budget are, no understanding as to the components of GDP but for some reason showing support for the past, ACA, and the Sanders agenda
 
Obscurity said:
Most of the jobs created are service industry jobs which tend to be lower pay. Moreover, more people are working multiple jobs, artificially inflating the employment numbers. However, the employment numbers being really good actually bolsters my claim we are better off under single payer.

Everyone is paying in, and everyone is covered, and no one is paying twice for service.
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LOL, there are well over a million fewer part time for economic reason jobs created since Trump took office, wages are up, African American support is up, economic growth is up and yet you still cannot give Trump any credit. that is a maturity problem
 
Conservative said:
The costs for medicare are high because there is no incentive to lower costs just like the case with everything else in Gov't. This is not a healthcare thread or medicare, start one and see where you get with it.

All I see from you is someone who has no idea what they pay in taxes and what those taxes fund, have no idea what the line items in the budget are, no understanding as to the components of GDP but for some reason showing support for the past, ACA, and the Sanders agenda
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The incentive is public pressure, which is near busrting.

Listen, I've been more than cordial with you. Don't sit here and try and patrionize me with this BS that I don't understand my tax bill. I read it, line by line, every single year.

I pay into Medicare. I pay additional taxes into localities and states that subsidize corporations. Part of that goes to pharma companies, since there is a huge one just north of me (Sanofi Pasteur.)

Part of Medicare's exploded cost ist hef act republicans sabotaged the ability to negotiate prices in a bid to profiteer. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Conservative said:
LOL, there are well over a million fewer part time for economic reason jobs created since Trump took office, wages are up, African American support is up, economic growth is up and yet you still cannot give Trump any credit. that is a maturity problem
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And all of that supports my supposition even further that single payer would be far more adequate - thank you.

I give Trump credit where it is due. The economy is global so he gets a portion of the share, but not all of it.
 
Amelia said:
I spent 8 years criticizing Obama. I was a member of the GOP then. I left the GOP when Trump became the party's frontrunner.

During Obama's term I was annoyed that he succeeded in lowering the deficits, because I didn't want him to get credit. It was actually challenging criticizing him sometimes because when I would say something like "the recovery was slower under Obama than it needed to be", some snarky (and spot-on) leftwinger would say, "recovery from what", annoyingly reminding me that my president, Bush, is the one who presided over the economic freefall.

Most of Trump's numbers are on the trajectory established by Obama. Obama inherited a mess and presided over a turn-around. Trump inherited a relatively strong economy which he hasn't screwed up, in spite of him kicking farmers and manufacturers in the gonads with his trade wars. Trump's budget deficit is not on Obama's trajectory because he and the GOP raised it when they showed that their whining about debt and deficit under Obama was a big fat lie.


But, about Medicare-for-all -- add up how much we spend on premiums and out-of-pocket for medical care. Compare that to how much we would spend in taxes for Medicare-for-all. Most of us would immediately be better off. And a healthier population with less medical-related stress would be a more productive population, so that's more tax contribution and lower use of income-supplementing welfare. And a more productive, less desperate population would be a less criminal population, so that's less tax money needed for prisons. Etc. There is little downside to investing in the health of our population. One downside would be the insecurity of people in the insurance industry as we try determine good strategies to mitigate job losses there. The upsides would be many and would cascade and stimulate the economy.
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So Obama lowered the deficits? Amazing how lowering the deficits and yet still adding 9.3 trillion to the debt is something you claim was a success. You keep buying what you are being told and for some reason don't question it.

You left the GOP because of Trump? Tell us what Democrat running for office is going to promote pro growth conservative values. Here is what Trump inherited and apparently trajectory to you means something different than me

Federal Dollars going to the states
GDP Growth 2013 to 2018

2013 16974.9
2014 17521.7 736.8
2015 18129.3 607.6
2016 18707.2 577.8
2017 19485.4 778.2
2018 20494.1 1008.7
2019 21337.9

2016 GDP growth 1.6% annual vs 2.9% 2018 with those terrible tax cuts, 3.2% January thru March 2019

Unemployment Rate 4.7% January 2017 vs. 3.5% today

Employed 152,1 million January 2017 to 158.6 million today

U-6 in January 2017 9.3% vs 7.0% today?

Part time for economic reasons, 5.7 million January 2017 vs. 4.3 million today?

African American unemployment 7.7% vs. 5.5% today?

Remember those wonderful Obama years leaving Trump with a 1.6% GDP growth, declining GDP dollars and let's not forget adding 9.3 trillion to the debt with much of that gov't spending in those GDP numbers

there obviously is something in the DNA of a liberal where spending in the name of compassion matters more than the results generated from that spending

Your post is so filled with propaganda and false information I have no time for such nonsense. You have been bought and paid for by the Democratic Party, were never a Republican for no Republican could ever support the Obama agenda and results
 
Obscurity said:
And all of that supports my supposition even further that single payer would be far more adequate - thank you.

I give Trump credit where it is due. The economy is global so he gets a portion of the share, but not all of it.
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That is your opinion because that is what you want to believe. There is no evidence that a single payer for 330 million Americans in 50 different states with 50 different taxes, economies and costs of living will ever work here. What happens if the program fails?
 
Obscurity said:
2018 was not about the economy. It's about healthcare, and will remain so in 2020.
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Says the guy on the losing side.


Healthcare = economy.

People want more economic freedom. That can be achieved by them having more money, either in savings (reduced healthcare) or increased earnings (better economy).
 
Mithros said:
  • It's the perception of the economy, not the economy. Today's economy is worse than Obama's as it has the same fundamental numbers, but greater deficit spending. The deficit is 2.5x growth and increasing. If we balanced the budget today our economy would be in a -3% recession/depression
  • Sanders is a terrible candidate who'd make a terrible president and never survive a general election.
  • Hate based identity / race based politics is what Trump ran on.
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Your opinions are noted.
 
Conservative said:
That is your opinion because that is what you want to believe. There is no evidence that a single payer for 330 million Americans in 50 different states with 50 different taxes, economies and costs of living will ever work here. What happens if the program fails?
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It's not going to fail. Everyone else can do it, so I don't accept that we can't. I don't even care if it is regional; as long as it covers every citizen in the nation, fully, no matter where they are.
 
KevinKohler said:
Says the guy on the losing side.


Healthcare = economy.

People want more economic freedom. That can be achieved by them having more money, either in savings (reduced healthcare) or increased earnings (better economy).
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This guy won in 2018, or didn't you know the house is in the hands of the dems? And I am not even a dem - only for Sanders. And that's all.
 
Obscurity said:
It's not going to fail. Everyone else can do it, so I don't accept that we can't. I don't even care if it is regional; as long as it covers every citizen in the nation, fully, no matter where they are.
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How are things in that alternative universe in which you live? Amazing how math doesn't exist in your world
 
Obscurity said:
This guy won in 2018, or didn't you know the house is in the hands of the dems? And I am not even a dem - only for Sanders. And that's all.
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Sanders is a multi millionaire who made his money off the very economy that he believes will fund his pie in the sky Medicare of All socialist programs. You want to believe what he tells you without exploring his background nor do you care how little experience he has in the private sector
 
Conservative said:
How are things in that alternative universe in which you live? Amazing how math doesn't exist in your world
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So you literally don't have a good argument against my position. You keep reinforcing it. Is this why you're tucking tail and running?

Just like every other arsonist conservative; when confronted with an argument you can't defeat, resort to ad hominem.
 
Obscurity said:
So you literally don't have a good argument against my position. You keep reinforcing it. Is this why you're tucking tail and running?

Just like every other arsonist conservative; when confronted with an argument you can't defeat, resort to ad hominem.
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There is no good argument supporting your position. I was forced onto Medicare when I turned 65 and know what a disaster the program really is, better than no program but after 25 years with my doctor I lost that Doctor due to the fact that he didn't take Medicare which is the same for many doctors so how do you staff up doctors in Medicare for all in our Free market capitalism society? Answer, you don't and you get long wait times like in every other country with single payer as there is no incentive to become a doctor

It will never be easy to defeat the pie in the sky dream that you and all the other Sanders supporters have as you buy rhetoric and don't think of the costs, the organizational requirements, the logistics and the legality of his proposals. Hard to defeat dreams like you have but when those dreams become reality and fail the consequences hurt a lot of people
 
Moonglow said:
I can see you have a problem with the question. No-no don't worry about alluding to the blue skies next I know you can't answer it.
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You made a statement that you haven't backed up so there isn't much to respond to other than pointing to the fact that over 50% of the American people now support the Trump economic results and that doesn't bode well for Democrats nor your argument. Results matter, results that you don't understand
 
Conservative said:
There is no good argument supporting your position. I was forced onto Medicare when I turned 65 and know what a disaster the program really is, better than no program but after 25 years with my doctor I lost that Doctor due to the fact that he didn't take Medicare which is the same for many doctors so how do you staff up doctors in Medicare for all in our Free market capitalism society? Answer, you don't and you get long wait times like in every other country with single payer as there is no incentive to become a doctor

It will never be easy to defeat the pie in the sky dream that you and all the other Sanders supporters have as you buy rhetoric and don't think of the costs, the organizational requirements, the logistics and the legality of his proposals. Hard to defeat dreams like you have but when those dreams become reality and fail the consequences hurt a lot of people
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So, you're retired, I take it.

You're arguing against your own benefit.

You do realize the sole purpose of private health insurance, outside of making money, is to exert control over employees, right?

You also realize we already have ridiculous wait times, right? I had to wait 6 months for a vasectomy, for example. 4 months, on pain medication, for an abscessed wisdom tooth to be removed.

So go on, tell me how we don't have that issue.
 
Conservative said:
You made a statement that you haven't backed up so there isn't much to respond to other than pointing to the fact that over 50% of the American people now support the Trump economic results and that doesn't bode well for Democrats nor your argument. Results matter, results that you don't understand
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I can see your chauvinistic slip is showing. If you like higher prices just admit to it.
 
KevinKohler said:
Then stop losing. Stop stonewalling your best candidates, like Sanders. Stop the hate based identity/race politics.

Clinton said it best.


"Its the economy, stupid."
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amazing-every-word-that-you-just-said-is-wrong-30469286.png
 
Conservative said:
For those of you blaming Trump for the tariffs and claiming how they hurt Americans another nail in the liberal left wing ideology and coffin. this just goes to show how rumors, innuendo, and lack of economic and business sense is rampant in the supporters of the Democratic Party today. Trump's business savvy is on full display here

Stocks pop as US-China tout trade progress | Fox Business
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Stocks are currently slightly down.
 
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